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Massive job revision pulls the veil off Biden’s happy-face economy

RoBo1988

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The U.S. economy added 818,000 fewer jobs from early 2023 to early 2024 than the government previously reported, a sizable revision that could affect the Federal Reserve’s decisions on interest rates and reverberate in the presidential campaign.

The Labor Department said monthly figures overstated job growth in the 12-month period that ended in March.

Wednesday’s report was part of a routine annual process. However, the revision was the biggest downward change since the financial crisis in 2009.

It also adds to previously reported signs of an employment slowdown, which sparked a major selloff on Wall Street earlier this month.

Aww. It's (D)ifferent when they do it.
 
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Gene2memE

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Right....if they said "we added this many jobs" when in reality, the number is far far lower...that's a lie.

Just because they tell it a lot doesn't change the fact it's a lie.

It's not a lie, it's a correction of a statistical estimate. This is a standard practice when it comes to economic statistics. For instance, the EU also bases preliminary estimates on a survey and does a 6 month revision to the jobs data (although there was almost no change in the most recent release).

This is all clearly spelled out by the BLS when they release the data:

"In accordance with usual practice, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) is announcing the preliminary estimate of the upcoming annual benchmark revision to the establishment survey employment series. The final benchmark revision will be issued in February 2025 with the publication of the January 2025 Employment Situation news release."

Here's their methodology - it's completely transparent and available for all to see:


The Current Employment Statistics data comes with some pretty wide initial confidence intervals. These get narrower as time progresses, more survey responses come in and the data is cross-checked against other indicators.


Then why not wait for the revision instead of lying to people?

Because 1) they're not lying to people and 2) people want the data as soon as it's available, whether the figures are preliminary or otherwise. There was a minor flap when the release of the revised data was delayed 40 minutes. Imagine the moaning if the markets had to wait an extra six months.

Shouldn't people have some accurate idea of what the administration is doing so they can vote for what they want?

This isn't "what the administration is doing" though. This is the performance of the jobs market.

Quoting Dean Baker of CEPR:

"First, the people complaining that this downward revision exposes cooked jobs data in prior months need to get their heads screwed on straight. Let’s just try a little logic here.
If the Biden-Harris administration had the ability to cook the job numbers, do we think they are too [blank] to realize that they should keep cooking them at least through November? Seriously, do we think they are total [blank]? If you’ve been cooking the numbers for twenty months, wouldn’t you keep cooking them until Election Day?
Okay, but getting more serious here, the staff of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) is a professional outfit that does exactly what we want it to do. They produce the data about the economy as best they can in a completely objective way. And they use methods that are completely transparent."

If BLS keeps finding it's data is out of wack, they may need to change their survey approach.

The UK Office for National Statistics has spent the last ~20 months doing something similar working on a new labour survey, as it wasn't getting enough high quality responses. Initially Brexit and COVID-19 were thought to be at fault, but they worked out there were also a couple of inadvertent points of bias in the survey (higher response rates from older and female respondents, some exclusion of those over 65) and it couldn't square preliminary survey data with some updated unemployment/economic inactivity index data.

End result is that the UK has worked out that it has more employed people AND more unemployed people that it though it had. Total labour force estimates went up by about 1 to 1.5 million people, while total unemployed estimates went up by 50,000 to 150,000 people.
 
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Pommer

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It's not a lie, it's a correction of a statistical estimate. This is a standard practice when it comes to economic statistics. For instance, the EU also bases preliminary estimates on a survey and does a 6 month revision of it's jobs data.

This is all spelled out by the BLS when they release the data:

"In accordance with usual practice, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) is announcing the preliminary estimate of the upcoming annual benchmark revision to the establishment survey employment series. The final benchmark revision will be issued in February 2025 with the publication of the January 2025 Employment Situation news release."

Here's their methodology - it's completely transparent and available for all to see:


The Current Employment Statistics data comes with some pretty wide confidence intervals. These get narrower as time progresses, more survey responses come in and the data is cross-checked against other indicators.




Because 1) they're not lying to people and 2) people want the data as soon as it's available, whether the figures are preliminary or otherwise. There was a minor flap when the release of the revised data was delayed 40 minutes. Imagine the moaning if the markets had to wait an extra six months.



This isn't "what the administration is doing" though. This is the performance of the jobs market.

Quoting Dean Baker of CEPR:

"First, the people complaining that this downward revision exposes cooked jobs data in prior months need to get their heads screwed on straight. Let’s just try a little logic here.
If the Biden-Harris administration had the ability to cook the job numbers, do we think they are too [blank] to realize that they should keep cooking them at least through November? Seriously, do we think they are total [blank]? If you’ve been cooking the numbers for twenty months, wouldn’t you keep cooking them until Election Day?
Okay, but getting more serious here, the staff of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) is a professional outfit that does exactly what we want it to do. They produce the data about the economy as best they can in a completely objective way. And they use methods that are completely transparent."

If BLS keeps finding it's data is out of wack, they may need to change their survey approach.

The UK Office for National Statistics has spent the last ~20 months doing something similar working on a new labour survey, as it wasn't getting enough high quality responses. Initially Brexit and COVID-19 were thought to be at fault, but they worked out there were also a couple of inadvertent points of bias in the survey (higher response rates from older and female respondents, some exclusion of those over 65) and it couldn't square preliminary survey data with some updated unemployment/economic inactivity index data.

End result is that the UK has worked out that it has more employed people AND more unemployed people that it though it had. Total labour force estimates went up by about 1 to 1.5 million people, while total unemployed estimates went up by 50,000 to 150,000 people.
This is a “Things That Are Totally ‘Normal’ Are Now Today’s Outrage du Jour” thread.
These can be fun.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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It's not a lie, it's a correction of a statistical estimate. This is a standard practice when it comes to economic statistics. For instance, the EU also bases preliminary estimates on a survey and does a 6 month revision to the jobs data (although there was almost no change in the most recent release).

This is all clearly spelled out by the BLS when they release the data:

"In accordance with usual practice, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) is announcing the preliminary estimate of the upcoming annual benchmark revision to the establishment survey employment series. The final benchmark revision will be issued in February 2025 with the publication of the January 2025 Employment Situation news release."

Here's their methodology - it's completely transparent and available for all to see:


The Current Employment Statistics data comes with some pretty wide initial confidence intervals. These get narrower as time progresses, more survey responses come in and the data is cross-checked against other indicators.




Because 1) they're not lying to people and 2) people want the data as soon as it's available, whether the figures are preliminary or otherwise. There was a minor flap when the release of the revised data was delayed 40 minutes. Imagine the moaning if the markets had to wait an extra six months.



This isn't "what the administration is doing" though. This is the performance of the jobs market.

Quoting Dean Baker of CEPR:

"First, the people complaining that this downward revision exposes cooked jobs data in prior months need to get their heads screwed on straight. Let’s just try a little logic here.
If the Biden-Harris administration had the ability to cook the job numbers, do we think they are too [blank] to realize that they should keep cooking them at least through November? Seriously, do we think they are total [blank]? If you’ve been cooking the numbers for twenty months, wouldn’t you keep cooking them until Election Day?
Okay, but getting more serious here, the staff of the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) is a professional outfit that does exactly what we want it to do. They produce the data about the economy as best they can in a completely objective way. And they use methods that are completely transparent."

If BLS keeps finding it's data is out of wack, they may need to change their survey approach.

The UK Office for National Statistics has spent the last ~20 months doing something similar working on a new labour survey, as it wasn't getting enough high quality responses. Initially Brexit and COVID-19 were thought to be at fault, but they worked out there were also a couple of inadvertent points of bias in the survey (higher response rates from older and female respondents, some exclusion of those over 65) and it couldn't square preliminary survey data with some updated unemployment/economic inactivity index data.

End result is that the UK has worked out that it has more employed people AND more unemployed people that it though it had. Total labour force estimates went up by about 1 to 1.5 million people, while total unemployed estimates went up by 50,000 to 150,000 people.
An error of 818,000 is not minor...
 
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rjs330

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Let's not get hung up on whether or not it's s lie. The fact is Harris Biden LOST 818000 jobs. Period. They should be geld tp account for it. They should be questioned and challenged pn it that their administration failed. Just like they failed on inflation. Trump should be hammering them on that. He's got a lot to challenge them on.
 
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Laodicean60

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The Department of Labor released revised hiring statistics showing the nation added 818,000 fewer jobs than initially reported between early 2023 and early 2024.

“It really isn’t a revision — it is a total lie,” Mr. Trump said at a campaign stop in Asheboro, North Carolina. “There has never been any revision like this.”
I wouldn't say it is a lie but the employment numbers the BLS and the Household survey painted a different picture throughout 2023. Many money managers throughout 2023 were complaining about the discrepancies between the two surveys and the monthly downward revisions to the jobs reports that MS media never announced. They warned of an economic slowdown while MS media said the economy was booming.
 
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hedrick

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First, it's not all that massive. Take a look at a chart showing the revisions: U.S. Added 818,000 Fewer Jobs Than Reported Earlier The big gains during the Robert period aren’t affected.

But jobs growth is a two-edged sword. It's a sign of economic recovery. But at a certain point there are more jobs than people, so it ends up driving inflation. In fact one of the major indicators the Fed has been looking at before backing off the interest rates is a decline of job growth and rise in unemployment to more normal levels. That seems to have happened.

Evaluating the economy isn't an exact science. You never know precisely what is going to happen. High interest rates were intended to cool the economy but not push it into recession. The jobs data suggests that it worked in cooling the economy. The main concern about the revision is whether the Fed has overcorrected, in which case we could have a mild recession.

Thus the main impact of the revision is on the Fed. It suggests that they were working with bad data. If they had known the actual numbers, they might have lowered interest rates a few months sooner.
 
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BPPLEE

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The U.S. economy added 818,000 fewer jobs from early 2023 to early 2024 than the government previously reported, a sizable revision that could affect the Federal Reserve’s decisions on interest rates and reverberate in the presidential campaign.

The Labor Department said monthly figures overstated job growth in the 12-month period that ended in March.

Wednesday’s report was part of a routine annual process. However, the revision was the biggest downward change since the financial crisis in 2009.

It also adds to previously reported signs of an employment slowdown, which sparked a major selloff on Wall Street earlier this month.


Once again all rations were reduced, except those of the pigs and the dogs. A too rigid equality in rations, Squealer explained, would have been contrary to the principles of Animalism. In any case he had no difficulty in proving to the other animals that they were not in reality short of food, whatever the appearances might be. For the time being, certainly, it had been found necessary to make a readjustment of rations (Squealer always spoke of it as a "readjustment," never as a "reduction"), but in comparison with the days of Jones, the improvement was enormous. Reading out the figures in a shrill, rapid voice, he proved to them in detail that they had more oats, more hay, more turnips than they had had in Jones's day, that they worked shorter hours, that their drinking water was of better quality, that they lived longer, that a larger proportion of their young ones survived infancy, and that they had more straw in their stalls and suffered less from fleas. The animals believed every word of it.

-George Orwell, Animal Farm
Thanks to @Ana the Ist
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Let's not get hung up on whether or not it's s lie. The fact is Harris Biden LOST 818000 jobs. Period. They should be geld tp account for it. They should be questioned and challenged pn it that their administration failed. Just like they failed on inflation. Trump should be hammering them on that. He's got a lot to challenge them on.
Oh he is and he will continue to. i can't wait to see him incinerate Harris in the debate. Pretty much everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie IMO...
 
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Laodicean60

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First, it's not all that massive. Take a look at a chart showing the revisions: U.S. Added 818,000 Fewer Jobs Than Reported Earlier
It's pretty large though the second largest YoY revision in history next to the GFC. It's not good news for Harris.
The jobs data suggests that it worked in cooling the economy. The main concern about the revision is whether the Fed has overcorrected, in which case we could have a mild recession.

The Federal Reserve creates economic problems by using unemployment to curb demand. The Fed didn't overreact they just kept monetary policy too tight for too long because of fears of inflation when economic data was showing deflationary pressure. I believe the Fed's 2% inflation target is too low because today's global economy isn't the same as 4 years ago mainly due to wars.
Thus the main impact of the revision is on the Fed. It suggests that they were working with bad data. If they had known the actual numbers, they might have lowered interest rates a few months sooner.
You are correct it is the Fed's monetary policy but I'm sure they saw the month-over-month downward revisions throughout last year for this YoY report. The main problem is our politicians are ignorant and don't know what to ask Powell at the congressional meetings. Many central banks overseas have been cutting rates because they see something in their unemployment numbers.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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We can only hope. Im.not sure anything will hit the fan as long as the media let's it go.
They can't fake the debate...Trump will incinerate her!
 
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rjs330

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Oh he is and he will continue to. i can't wait to see him incinerate Harris in the debate. Pretty much everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie IMO...
I hope he does. However he isn't the honest type either. So one must be careful with him. I don't want this to turn into she lies vs he lies debate.

I want it to be she's bad for America and here is why. Inflation, job losses, and massive illegal immigration and even foreign policy as it relates to.the west's safety. Make her defend herself from facts and not character. Because he doesn't win a character fight. He wins a policy fight for the lives of Americans.
 
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rjs330

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They can't fake the debate...Trump will incinerate her!
No, but they can and will challenge everything Trump says. If he sticks to the facts and the evidence to prove it, he'll be on solid ground.
 
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DaisyDay

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No, but they can and will challenge everything Trump says. If he sticks to the facts and the evidence to prove it, he'll be on solid ground.
Yeah, but that's definitely not his style....
 
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