Pope Says All Religions are Path to God?

water of life · Sep 15, 2024

The Vatican cares only for consolidating its power on Earth. They don't care what religion one follows, only that they recognize their authority.

If there ever were an ecumenical, one world religion, the papacy would surely be maneuvering itself to be at the head of it.

mindlight · Sep 15, 2024

ThatRobGuy said:
Obviously I'm not Catholic (or any religion for that matter), but the Vatican softening certain stances has been following a pattern. Both they, and some other denominations, have been "softening" their positions on certain things out of concern for their membership numbers.

Churches that have higher operating costs and overhead have more of a tendency to "go with the direction the wind is blowing" so to speak because their operating costs necessitate that they get a certain amount of tithing coming in from members.

To put it more bluntly, they need a certain amount of "meat in the seats". And when an increasing number of the population no longer agrees with the stances (due to generational turnover) and feel they're outdated (to the point where they'd just rather stay home on Sunday morning), some of these larger "fancier" churches have opted for getting a little more lax.

That's why the churches that have more expensive operating costs and "professional clergy" (meaning, the clergy & staff of the church have that task as their regular full time job) have been a little more susceptible to that than the small modest churches who have a tendency to "stick their guns" so to speak (as they don't need to have a congregation of 1800 people regularly showing up to tithe and pay for the operating costs of a $4M building and salaries of 15 church staff)

General rule of thumb would probably be: The more a church operates like a business, the more they'll need to "cater to marketplace" in the same way businesses do. Which means being forced to find a balance between doctrinal/"mission statement" adherence, and "market appeal".

The Christian population as a whole (minus Orthodox) is growing faster than the world population. Catholics are also growing though at the same rate as the global population. It is only in Europe and the Middle East that the darkness is growing.

mindlight · Sep 15, 2024

Jermayn said:
Could someone, preferably who is Catholic, break this down for me? Is the Pope promoting a Universalist Unitarian view where you can worship anyone/anything and be saved or is there some nuance the general public is not seeing here? How does the Catholic community feel about this statement? Article linked below:

All faiths lead to God, Pope tells youth in Singapore | News Headlines

A chief provider and curator of Catholic information on the web since 1996. Our editorial voice, always faithful to the teachings of the Church, assists and inspires Catholic clergy and laity.

www.catholicculture.org

I am a Protestant but I cannot believe that the pope is preaching a universalist message of all paths to God here. He is known for his inclusive approach which allows for the fact that God can bring anyone from any place or position to Himself. The Pope himself believes theologically that salvation is by Christ. What he is expressing here is his missiological conviction that we should meet people where they are at the crossroads. He is right that it does not matter how deep you are in whatever darkness of unbelief, false belief or wounded confusion. Christ can meet you wherever you are and the gift of salvation is available to all.

VATICAN - Pope Francis: Christ's salvation is announced only in today's world, as it is

Rome (Agenzia Fides) - The proclamation of the Gospel does not mean "standing on a balcony and shout

www.fides.org

Hans Blaster · Sep 15, 2024

mindlight said:
The Christian population as a whole (minus Orthodox) is growing faster than the world population. Catholics are also growing though at the same rate as the global population. It is only in Europe and the Middle East that the darkness is growing.

Are you sure about that? There have been large shifts in Latin America to Protestant churches. I find it difficult to believe that the number of Catholics is steady or growing in that region.

mindlight · Sep 15, 2024

Hans Blaster said:
Are you sure about that? There have been large shifts in Latin America to Protestant churches. I find it difficult to believe that the number of Catholics is steady or growing in that region.

The claim of stability of the Catholic share was for the world as a whole. You are right Catholics have lost out to other Christians in Latin America. This is because of better alternatives there. In Europe, their proportionate and absolute decline is due to an overly comfortable church that has failed to rise to the challenge of a compromised, morally relativistic regional culture. This atheistic culture is unable to accept: absolute truth; definitions of sexual purity; or the sanctity of life, for example.

In the larger interdenominational context, Christianity continues to grow faster than the global population, especially in new areas like Africa and Asia. So also Islam and Hinduism are growing faster than the population. Just these three religions account for 75% of the world's population. The world is becoming more religious daily not less is the key insight here and the future is not a godless one. The atheist percentage collapsed after the failure of Communism in Russia, but Orthodoxy has suffered since its great surge at that time, as faith has been tested by more secular realities and a compromised Russian leadership. But atheism as a whole, looks pretty much doomed by its failure to reproduce and is a symptom of decline.

It is both amusing and tragic to hear the voices of atheists, from Western cultures, mocking the Catholics for all the wrong reasons. It is like watching a comedy of errors performed by a court jester in a palace on fire. (EDIT: Point of clarification Hans Blaster did not do this but the original poster to whom I responded did)

The Global Catholic Population

Over the past century, the number of Catholics worldwide has more than tripled. But the world’s overall population also has risen rapidly from 1910 to 2010. As a result, Catholics have made up a remarkably stable share of all people on Earth, though their geographic distribution has changed...

www.pewresearch.org

Armchair Apologist · Sep 15, 2024

Perhaps the phrase "Is the Pope Catholic?" might just be a legitimate question rather than a snarky response to someone who asks a question with an obvious answer?

If Pope Francis truly believes this, then he has abandoned a very basic and fundamental truth not just for the Catholic Church but for orthodox (small "o" here) Christianity in general!

The historic position is Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus or "Outside the Church, there is no salvation!" Since the Roman Catholic Church asserts that they are the "One True Church" that Jesus is speaking of in Mt 16:18 and that God's grace is channeled to the faithful through the sacraments of the Church, it has been said in the past that there is no salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church which thereby condemns all Protestants and anyone else not in communion with the Church or Rome as heretics! They significantly softened this language with the Second Vatican Council and now refer to people like me as "separated brethren" and I guess they have been making the broad way even more so ever since!

If you are a Christian who believes the Bible, you understand that Jesus is not just "A Way" but THE WAY and the ONLY WAY to the Father (Jn 14:6) and Catholic Apologists do assert this for the most part and I do agree that there is, in fact no salvation outside of the Church. We just have to properly define what we mean by "The Church!"

We can go down many different paths from here but I guess this would be a question I would ask Pope Francis if I ever got to meet him: "Hey Frankie buddy, are you sure you are a Catholic?" I am certain that most Catholic "traditionalists" (who vehemently dislike Baptists such as myself) would be asking the same question or have come to the conclusion that he is an imposter who does not speak for them! I'm sure Frankie is a nice guy and just wants everyone to "like him" but this statement makes him far removed from the historic Christian faith and the Roman Catholic Church.

Hans Blaster · Sep 15, 2024

mindlight said:
The claim of stability of the Catholic share was for the world as a whole. You are right Catholics have lost out to other Christians in Latin America. This is because of better alternatives there. In Europe, their proportionate and absolute decline is due to an overly comfortable church that has failed to rise to the challenge of a compromised, morally relativistic regional culture. This atheistic culture is unable to accept: absolute truth; definitions of sexual purity; or the sanctity of life, for example.

In the larger interdenominational context, Christianity continues to grow faster than the global population, especially in new areas like Africa and Asia. So also Islam and Hinduism are growing faster than the population. Just these three religions account for 75% of the world's population. The world is becoming more religious daily not less is the key insight here and the future is not a godless one. The atheist percentage collapsed after the failure of Communism in Russia, but Orthodoxy has suffered since its great surge at that time, as faith has been tested by more secular realities and a compromised Russian leadership. But atheism as a whole, looks pretty much doomed by its failure to reproduce and is a symptom of decline.

It is both amusing and tragic to hear the voices of atheists, from Western cultures, mocking the Catholics for all the wrong reasons. It is like watching a comedy of errors performed by a court jester in a palace on fire.

The Global Catholic Population

Over the past century, the number of Catholics worldwide has more than tripled. But the world’s overall population also has risen rapidly from 1910 to 2010. As a result, Catholics have made up a remarkably stable share of all people on Earth, though their geographic distribution has changed...

www.pewresearch.org

I don't know where you got the idea I was mocking Catholics for any reason. As for decreasing the number of Catholics, I can only accomplish a decrease of 1.

mindlight · Sep 15, 2024

Armchair Apologist said:
Perhaps the phrase "Is the Pope Catholic?" might just be a legitimate question rather than a snarky response to someone who asks a question with an obvious answer?

If Pope Francis truly believes this, then he has abandoned a very basic and fundamental truth not just for the Catholic Church but for orthodox (small "o" here) Christianity in general!

The historic position is Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus or "Outside the Church, there is no salvation!" Since the Roman Catholic Church asserts that they are the "One True Church" that Jesus is speaking of in Mt 16:18 and that God's grace is channeled to the faithful through the sacraments of the Church, it has been said in the past that there is no salvation outside of the Roman Catholic Church which thereby condemns all Protestants and anyone else not in communion with the Church or Rome as heretics! They significantly softened this language with the Second Vatican Council and now refer to people like me as "separated brethren" and I guess they have been making the broad way even more so ever since!

If you are a Christian who believes the Bible, you understand that Jesus is not just "A Way" but THE WAY and the ONLY WAY to the Father (Jn 14:6) and Catholic Apologists do assert this for the most part and I do agree that there is, in fact no salvation outside of the Church. We just have to properly define what we mean by "The Church!"

We can go down many different paths from here but I guess this would be a question I would ask Pope Francis if I ever got to meet him: "Hey Frankie buddy, are you sure you are a Catholic?" I am certain that most Catholic "traditionalists" (who vehemently dislike Baptists such as myself) would be asking the same question or have come to the conclusion that he is an imposter who does not speak for them! I'm sure Frankie is a nice guy and just wants everyone to "like him" but this statement makes him far removed from the historic Christian faith and the Roman Catholic Church.

The Pope's speech appears more missiological than theological and fits an inclusive approach to evangelism rather than any hard theological statements. But yes I am sure he scares many traditionalists inside the Catholic church.

19 For though I am free from all people, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may gain more. 20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might gain Jews; to those who are under the Law, I became as one under the Law, though not being under the Law myself, so that I might gain those who are under the Law; 21 to those who are without the Law, I became as one without the Law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might gain those who are without the Law. 22 To the weak I became weak, that I might gain the weak; I have become all things to all people, so that I may by all means save some. 23 I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. 1 Cor 9:19-23 (NASB)

rjs330 · Sep 15, 2024

eleos1954 said:
Do you think I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I have come to divide people against each other!

This doesn't sound like rhe nice Jesus everyone wants to believe in.

Jesus said a LOT of controversial and divisive things. Things like men love darkness rather thN light because their seeds are evil. Or I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father, but through me. Or the world is condemned already.

He came to.seek.and save the lost, but no one can be saved until they realize they are lost. Jesus loved us so much that while we were still sinners he died for us.

He is the only way. There is but one way.

chevyontheriver · Sep 16, 2024

water of life said:
The Vatican cares only for consolidating its power on Earth. They don't care what religion one follows, only that they recognize their authority.

If this were true then saying all religions are equal is not at all the way to bolster Catholic power.

water of life said:
If there ever were an ecumenical, one world religion, the papacy would surely be maneuvering itself to be at the head of it.

Pope Francis does seem to want a one world religion. That looks to be a true statement. But it would be such a wimp of a thing whether or not pope Francis was in charge.

FireDragon76 · Sep 16, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
The ‘all paths’ attitude doesn’t fill pews but empties them. I mean, why fill a pew when I can sleep in and still be saved?

As others have said, the Pope isn't promoting religious indifferentism, but religious tolerance and respect.

RileyG · Sep 18, 2024

water of life said:
The Vatican cares only for consolidating its power on Earth. They don't care what religion one follows, only that they recognize their authority.

If there ever were an ecumenical, one world religion, the papacy would surely be maneuvering itself to be at the head of it.

Nice try.

That won't happen, and you obviously don't know the teachings of the Church.

RileyG · Sep 18, 2024

FireDragon76 said:
As others have said, the Pope isn't promoting religious indifferentism, but religious tolerance and respect.

I think that sums it up. We should all live in harmony.

Not to ramble on, but it's my understanding Catholic Maryland was actually the first tolerant United States territory that actually tolerated other religions, in their case protestants.

The Puritans, who were escaping religious persecution from the Church of England, had zero tolerance for people different from them, such as Quakers, and those dreaded Catholics which they despised.

Pope Says All Religions are Path to God?

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