Six hostages brutally murdered by Hamas in Gaza, including Israeli-American Goldberg-Polin

ThatRobGuy said:

I think ultimately, holding only Israel to international border agreements of 1949

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The Geneva Convention of 1949 was not an international border agreement.

Pommer said:

We’ve funded a good chunk of the world’s armies, it’s just coincidence that we have giant corporations who are excellent at manufacturing munitions.
Subsidizing the world’s armies is just “good capitalism”, ironically enough.

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So, a state taking currency away from citizens, printing more currency in a state-controlled bank, choosing a publicly owned corporation which produces the products the state specifies and is paid the price the state sets, hires the people the state approves, and then sells the product to only those people and entities the state approves of is capitalism?

All this while those calling themselves Socialist and Communist do the exact same thing?

And all these weapons are being provided to a state which owns 93% of all property in the country and provides universal health care (to its "jewish" citizens).

Hmm . . .

MartyF said:

You're quoting a source which says it is unreliable.

Wikipedia:Don't cite Wikipedia on Wikipedia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'd respond but the links to the articles have already changed after a week. Try to do as Wikipedia suggests - read and quote the secondary sources. You may be surprised to find out they don't say what you think they do.

No link - no reference. Not sure where your table comes from - Instagram?

This is a link to the video of the picture you see.

Notice that in the background Bashar al Assad is being announced. This is Syria - not Gaza.

Why you would post a false picture in support of the murder of toddlers is beyond me.

No, that's just people standing on a rooftop. The rest is conjecture, or considering your previous picture, a straight up fabrication.

But really? People standing on a roof is your best evidence?

No link - lemme guess - Instagram?

More plagiarism from Wikipedia.

Still no evidence of Human Shields. Read the links. They don't say what you might think they say.

Your understanding is wrong.

You can read about it in the Talmud or in Jesus in the Talmud by Peter Schafer.

Your support of Israel makes sense then.

I give you a link to a book by an Israeli Jewish Historian - You give me nada. No sources - just suppose to take the word of an Atheist.

Zero.

As has been repeatedly said when Zionists are trying to make another point, Palestinians have never had a chance to have an independent state.

No. Once again, you're not reading.

I said Israel is required by international law to vacate Gaza, East Jerusalem, the WestBank, and the Golan Heights. This includes all settlers and citizens. I never said anything about laying down weapons. They are more than welcome to keep their weapons.

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This has been a well documented thing. Here's one as far back as 2014.

Israel says these photos show how Hamas places weapons in and near U.N. facilities in Gaza, including schools

Look your free to your own opinions but not to your own facts. I suppose you can be stuck in such a fashion that short if you going there yourself and doing the research you can dismiss every piece of evidence presented. If that's the case there really isn't anyvreason for anyone to actually try and show you any.

Hamas officials admit its strategy is to use Palestinian civilians as human shields

Hamas uses civilians as human shields, Gazan journalist states

MartyF said:

I give you a link to a book by an Israeli Jewish Historian - You give me nada. No sources - just suppose to take the word of an Atheist.

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You're employing a few different strategies here that make honest debate near impossible.

You're basically framing this conversation in such a way where the only sources you'll as "credible" are the ones that affirm your viewpoint, and find some reason to disqualify all the others as "invalid" so that you can portray any contrasting viewpoint as "mere opinion"

You're also doing some "selective quoting". You addressed the sources that you felt could be easily "dunked on" for superficial reasons. And neglected to include the ones from a few of the other sources I mentioned.

But here's more:

As well as carrying out unlawful killings, others abducted by Hamas were subjected to torture, including severe beatings with truncheons, gun butts, hoses and wire or held in stress positions. Some were interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient’s clinic within the grounds of Gaza City’s main al-Shifa hospital.
(sounds like they're using civilian infrastructure for Hamas operations, correct?)


The United Nations has found troves of rockets hidden in three of its schools since the conflict began. “We condemn the group or groups who endangered civilians by placing these munitions in our school,” Chris Gunness, spokesman for the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, said in statement.
(alternate link here, directly from the UNRWA press release: https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/cache-rockets-found-un-school-gaza)

Ramallah_(dpa) _ The Palestinian Authority's health ministry on Saturday accused the militant movement Hamas of turning some of its medical facilities in the Gaza Strip into detention centres.

After Israel stopped 23 days of aerial and ground attacks in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip last month, "Hamas unfortunately used several facilities, mainly a large number of hospitals, as stations for summons, interrogation, torture and detention," the Ramallah-based ministry said in a statement.

The sources I've cited in this iteration are sources that certainly aren't "Zionist sympathizers". The Palestinian Authority and the UNRWA are both very pro-Palestine entities that are very critical of Israel. Even they've reported it happening...

Unless you're making the suggestion that, though it's been a staple of the Hamas strategy since their initial takeover, they magically stopped doing those things after 2014?

MartyF said:

Palestinians have never had a chance to have an independent state.

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That's not true...in fact, they've had multiple two-state solution offers put on the table, and have turned them down every time.

They had a very fair offer in 2000 (that Bill Clinton attempted to help broker), and they shot it down.


The offer put forth was to form a Palestinian state initially on 73% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip. In 10–25 years, the Palestinian state would expand to a maximum of 92% of the West Bank (91 percent of the West Bank and 1 percent from a land swap).

Had they accepted that offer in 2000 (given that we're approaching year 2025), they'd have been their own sovereign country at this point for nearly quarter of a century, and would've had 100% of Gaza and 92% of the west bank under their control.