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Translation motives

Xeno.of.athens

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Many Christians have come across Jehovah's Witnesses in various contexts. I believe that their leadership is aware they are guiding their followers astray. I am curious about the motivations behind their deliberate alteration of Bible passages to align with incorrect teachings.

An example that stands out is an extended passage with inserted words that alter its meaning to align with the doctrine that Jesus is a created entity.
Colossians 1:15 He is the image+ of the invisible+ God, the firstborn+ of all creation; 16 because by means of him+ all [other]* things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities.+ All [other] things have been created through him+ and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things+ and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist,+ 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation.+ He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,+ that he might become the one who is first+ in all things; 19 because [God]* saw good for all fullness+ to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile+ again to himself all [other] things+ by making peace+ through the blood+ [he shed] on the torture stake,*+ no matter whether they are* the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens. 21 Indeed, YOU who were once alienated+ and enemies because YOUR minds were on the works that were wicked,+ 22 he now has again reconciled+ by means of that one’s fleshly body through [his] death,+ in order to present YOU holy and unblemished+ and open to no accusation+ before him, 23 provided, of course, that YOU continue in the faith,+ established on the foundation+ and steadfast+ and not being shifted away from the hope of that good news which YOU heard,+ and which was preached+ in all creation+ that is under heaven. Of this [good news] I Paul became a minister. (NWT 1984 edition)​

And here is the same passage from the NRSV
Colossians 1:15-23 NRSV (15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; (16) for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers--all things have been created through him and for him. (17) He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (18) He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything. (19) For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, (20) and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross. (21) And you who were once estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, (22) he has now reconciled in his fleshly body through death, so as to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him-- (23) provided that you continue securely established and steadfast in the faith, without shifting from the hope promised by the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven. I, Paul, became a servant of this gospel.​
 

BobRyan

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Many Christians have come across Jehovah's Witnesses in various contexts. I believe that their leadership is aware they are guiding their followers astray.
Why would you say that?
Wouldn't it make more sense to suppose that all of them (or almost all) genuinely believe their own doctrines??
I am curious about the motivations behind their deliberate alteration of Bible passages to align with incorrect teachings.
put another way -- does a Bible translation being done by a single denomination ever show translation choices in the case of certain words or phrases to be skewed in the direction of the group doing the translation?? IT appears that is the case hands-down.

Put another way - when a single translation is done by a group of scholars from different doctrinal POV - does it ever happen that one group modifies/limits the more skewed view that some other scholars in that group - have in the case of a given word/phrase/passage? Yes that does happen.

In those cases do they think they are promoting error?
I suggest that neither side considers their view to be error.
An example that stands out is an extended passage with inserted words that alter its meaning to align with the doctrine that Jesus is a created entity.
Colossians 1:15 He is the image+ of the invisible+ God, the firstborn+ of all creation; 16 because by means of him+ all [other]* things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities.+ All [other] things have been created through him+ and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things+ and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist,+ 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation.+ He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,+ that he might become the one who is first+ in all things; 19 because [God]* saw good for all fullness+ to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile+ again to himself all [other] things+ by making peace+ through the blood+ [he shed] on the torture stake,*+ no matter whether they are* the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens. 21 Indeed, YOU who were once alienated+ and enemies because YOUR minds were on the works that were wicked,+ 22 he now has again reconciled+ by means of that one’s fleshly body through [his] death,+ in order to present YOU holy and unblemished+ and open to no accusation+ before him, 23 provided, of course, that YOU continue in the faith,+ established on the foundation+ and steadfast+ and not being shifted away from the hope of that good news which YOU heard,+ and which was preached+ in all creation+ that is under heaven. Of this [good news] I Paul became a minister. (NWT 1984 edition)​
There are a number of examples where words are in parenthesis or italics in the NASB and other translations -- showing that the words are not actually in the Greek text - but have been supplied by the translators
 
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Clare73

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Many Christians have come across Jehovah's Witnesses in various contexts. I believe that their leadership is aware they are guiding their followers astray. I am curious about the motivations behind their deliberate alteration of Bible passages to align with incorrect teachings.
Good question. . .
An example that stands out is an extended passage with inserted words that alter its meaning to align with the doctrine that Jesus is a created entity.
Colossians 1:15 He is the image+ of the invisible+ God, the firstborn+ of all creation; 16 because by means of him+ all [other]* things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities.+ All [other] things have been created through him+ and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things+ and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist,+ 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation.+ He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,+ that he might become the one who is first+ in all things; 19 because [God]* saw good for all fullness+ to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile+ again to himself all [other] things+ by making peace+ through the blood+ [he shed] on the torture stake,*+ no matter whether they are* the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens. 21 Indeed, YOU who were once alienated+ and enemies because YOUR minds were on the works that were wicked,+ 22 he now has again reconciled+ by means of that one’s fleshly body through [his] death,+ in order to present YOU holy and unblemished+ and open to no accusation+ before him, 23 provided, of course, that YOU continue in the faith,+ established on the foundation+ and steadfast+ and not being shifted away from the hope of that good news which YOU heard,+ and which was preached+ in all creation+ that is under heaven. Of this [good news] I Paul became a minister. (NWT 1984 edition)​

And here is the same passage from the NRSV
Colossians 1:15-23 NRSV (15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; (16) for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers--all things have been created through him and for him. (17) He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together. (18) He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might come to have first place in everything. (19) For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, (20) and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace through the blood of his cross. (21) And you who were once estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds, (22) he has now reconciled in his fleshly body through death, so as to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him-- (23) provided that you continue securely established and steadfast in the faith, without shifting from the hope promised by the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven. I, Paul, became a servant of this gospel.​
 
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KevinT

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Many Christians have come across Jehovah's Witnesses in various contexts. I believe that their leadership is aware they are guiding their followers astray. I am curious about the motivations behind their deliberate alteration of Bible passages to align with incorrect teachings.

An example that stands out is an extended passage with inserted words that alter its meaning to align with the doctrine that Jesus is a created entity.

I didn't understand what the "+"'s were supposed to indicate, and I couldn't pick out the differences. So I have interleaved the two texts. The first, indicated by bold text, is the NWT 1984 edition. I started labeling every line, but gave up. The second non-bold line is the NRSV version.


Colossians 1:

15 He is the image+ of the invisible+ God, the firstborn+ of all creation; NWT 1984 edition
(15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; NRSV​
16 because by means of him+ all [other]* things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, NWT​
(16) for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, NRSV​
the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities.+ NWT​
things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers NRSV​
All [other] things have been created through him+ and for him. NWT​
all things have been created through him and for him. NRSV​
17 Also, he is before all [other] things+ and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist,+
(17) He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together.​
18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation.+ He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,+
(18) He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,​
that he might become the one who is first+ in all things;
so that he might come to have first place in everything.​
19 because [God]* saw good for all fullness+ to dwell in him,
(19) For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,​
20 and through him to reconcile+ again to himself all [other] things+ by making peace+
(20) and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace​
through the blood+ [he shed] on the torture stake,*+ no matter whether they are* the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens.
through the blood of his cross.​
21 Indeed, YOU who were once alienated+ and enemies because YOUR minds were on the works that were wicked,+
(21) And you who were once estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,​
22 he now has again reconciled+ by means of that one’s fleshly body through [his] death,
(22) he has now reconciled in his fleshly body through death,​
+ in order to present YOU holy and unblemished+ and open to no accusation+ before him,
so as to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him--​
23 provided, of course, that YOU continue in the faith,+ established on the foundation+ and steadfast+
23) provided that you continue securely established and steadfast in the faith​
and not being shifted away from the hope of that good news which YOU heard,+
(, without shifting from the hope promised by the gospel that you heard,​
and which was preached+ in all creation+ that is under heaven.
which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven.​
Of this [good news] I Paul became a minister.
I, Paul, became a servant of this gospel.



The major difference I see is the added phrase "no matter whether they are* the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens." But I don't really see the significance of the addition.

Can you explain what I am overlooking?

KT
 
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Xeno.of.athens

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I didn't understand what the "+"'s were supposed to indicate, and I couldn't pick out the differences. So I have interleaved the two texts. The first, indicated by bold text, is the NWT 1984 edition. I started labeling every line, but gave up. The second non-bold line is the NRSV version.


Colossians 1:

15 He is the image+ of the invisible+ God, the firstborn+ of all creation; NWT 1984 edition
(15) He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; NRSV​
16 because by means of him+ all [other]* things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, NWT​
(16) for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created, NRSV​
the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities.+ NWT​
things visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or powers NRSV​
All [other] things have been created through him+ and for him. NWT​
all things have been created through him and for him. NRSV​
17 Also, he is before all [other] things+ and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist,+
(17) He himself is before all things, and in him all things hold together.​
18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation.+ He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,+
(18) He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead,​
that he might become the one who is first+ in all things;
so that he might come to have first place in everything.​
19 because [God]* saw good for all fullness+ to dwell in him,
(19) For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,​
20 and through him to reconcile+ again to himself all [other] things+ by making peace+
(20) and through him God was pleased to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, by making peace​
through the blood+ [he shed] on the torture stake,*+ no matter whether they are* the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens.
through the blood of his cross.​
21 Indeed, YOU who were once alienated+ and enemies because YOUR minds were on the works that were wicked,+
(21) And you who were once estranged and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,​
22 he now has again reconciled+ by means of that one’s fleshly body through [his] death,
(22) he has now reconciled in his fleshly body through death,​
+ in order to present YOU holy and unblemished+ and open to no accusation+ before him,
so as to present you holy and blameless and irreproachable before him--​
23 provided, of course, that YOU continue in the faith,+ established on the foundation+ and steadfast+
23) provided that you continue securely established and steadfast in the faith​
and not being shifted away from the hope of that good news which YOU heard,+
(, without shifting from the hope promised by the gospel that you heard,​
and which was preached+ in all creation+ that is under heaven.
which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven.​
Of this [good news] I Paul became a minister.
I, Paul, became a servant of this gospel.



The major difference I see is the added phrase "no matter whether they are* the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens." But I don't really see the significance of the addition.

Can you explain what I am overlooking?

KT
The insertion of [other] is the key difference and its presence helps Jehovah's witnesses to deny that the Lord, Jesus Christ, created everything that is created. The + means there's a cross reference.
 
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