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Justice and vengeance

Xeno.of.athens

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Justice and vengeance are distinct concepts. While some argue for punitive justice, which may appear akin to vengeance, others support rehabilitation as the aim of justice, differing significantly from vengeance. Holy scriptures suggest that justice is a divine mandate, emphasizing fairness and restoration, whereas vengeance is an emotional response, often leading to further harm. Justice is about balance and equity, guided by principles and laws, while vengeance is driven by personal retribution. What do you think that the holy scriptures have to say about the systems of justice used in your land?
 
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AlexB23

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Justice and vengeance are distinct concepts. While some argue for punitive justice, which may appear akin to vengeance, others support rehabilitation as the aim of justice, differing significantly from vengeance. Holy scriptures suggest that justice is a divine mandate, emphasizing fairness and restoration, whereas vengeance is an emotional response, often leading to further harm. Justice is about balance and equity, guided by principles and laws, while vengeance is driven by personal retribution. What do you think that the holy scriptures have to say about the systems of justice used in your land?
I will plug your question into the AI either late tonight, or tomorrow. Right now, it is busy digesting the Winter Olympics and Paralympics rules for dozens of sports.
 
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AlexB23

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Alright, 3% left until until ready. Once that loading bar reaches 100%, I will be able to plug in your question into the AI. It is almost done learning the rules of the Olympics. Then, I can ask it to answer your question using some Catholic documents.

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Edit: Just plugged the question in. It is late here, cos it takes the AI around 20-30 minutes to answer more complex questions. I will put the response here tomorrow morning. God bless, @Xeno.of.athens .
 
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AlexB23

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Here is the response from the AI:


The Scriptures indeed provide valuable insights into the nature of justice and vengeance. In your question, you've touched upon two distinct aspects: biblical teachings on justice and an analysis of US law (the justice system). Let us consider both.

In terms of Biblical perspectives, justice is portrayed as a divine mandate emphasizing fairness and restoration rather than vengeance. For instance, in Deuteronomy 16:19, it states that "You shall not pervert justice; you shall be straight in weight and measurement." This verse underscores the importance of impartiality and equity in administering justice. In Micah 6:8, we read, "He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God." This verse emphasizes not only acting justly but also loving mercy—which can be interpreted as compassion and rehabilitation rather than vengeance.

Regarding US law (the justice system), it is important to note that the American legal system strives for fairness, impartiality, and due process of law in administering justice. The United States Constitution guarantees certain fundamental rights such as the right to a speedy trial, the right to an attorney, and protection against self-incrimination (the Fifth Amendment). Furthermore, the Eighth Amendment prohibits cruel and unusual punishments. These principles can be seen as aligning with biblical teachings on justice by ensuring fairness, balance, and equity in legal proceedings.

However, it is essential to acknowledge that like any human institution, the US justice system has its imperfections. The pursuit of vengeance rather than rehabilitation remains a persistent challenge within the criminal justice system. It can be argued that this reflects the broader societal struggle between retributivist and restorative approaches to justice—a debate that continues in both religious and secular circles today.

In conclusion, while there may be instances where the US legal system appears punitive or vengeful, it is grounded in principles of fairness, impartiality, and due process of law as mandated by Biblical teachings on justice. The ongoing challenge lies in striking a balance between these ideals and addressing societal demands for retribution while promoting rehabilitation and restoration within the criminal justice system.


Dang, this AI always gravitates to John Calvin. @Neostarwcc told me that John Calvin is a theologian to be checked out, hence why I downloaded it to my Christianity documents. Of course, the AI favors Calvin over the other documents, and I am tempted to delete Calvin out of the database, but I will not, cos his work was important, even though Aquinas is better. Screen capture of AI response:

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Follow up questions:
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com7fy8

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Justice and vengeance are distinct concepts.
I would say they can fit together. It looks to me like God does combine justice and revenge . . . more or less, in each case.

For example > Satan and his people hated and tortured and murdered Jesus.

Ones involved in that have suffered a lot. That was both justice and revenge, I would say.

However, the perfect justice is that a guilty person's old man of the flesh is executed on the cross, and the person becomes a child of God who now is helping to destroy the works of evil and build Jesus Christ's church. The revenge includes how Satan can't use that person like he used to do.
While some argue for punitive justice, which may appear akin to vengeance, others support rehabilitation as the aim of justice, differing significantly from vengeance.
God's justice and revenge works better than what this world's people can do, in any case.
Holy scriptures suggest that justice is a divine mandate, emphasizing fairness and restoration, whereas vengeance is an emotional response, often leading to further harm. Justice is about balance and equity, guided by principles and laws, while vengeance is driven by personal retribution.
God's way of justice and vengeance are good . . . not merely *wishful* and emotional like this world's stuff. In God's correction, God knows if and how the person is being changed to do better. God knows the heart, thus if and how well someone is being truly corrected.
What do you think that the holy scriptures have to say about the systems of justice used in your land?
"without Me you can do nothing" (in John 15:5).
 
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RandyPNW

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Justice and vengeance are distinct concepts. While some argue for punitive justice, which may appear akin to vengeance, others support rehabilitation as the aim of justice, differing significantly from vengeance. Holy scriptures suggest that justice is a divine mandate, emphasizing fairness and restoration, whereas vengeance is an emotional response, often leading to further harm. Justice is about balance and equity, guided by principles and laws, while vengeance is driven by personal retribution. What do you think that the holy scriptures have to say about the systems of justice used in your land?
Here in the US we have a changing spiritual climate--one that has wandered from the Christian perspective. It is now largely a liberal Christian perspective, akin to compassionate paganism (in my opinion). Divine Justice, biblically, is for God to determine, whether to commit genocide, as in the Canaanite invasion, or to be tolerate and not go too far in defeating an enemy (I could give examples).

Humanistic standards of justice would apply a sense of Christian compassion wrongly to cases where repeat offenders may be enabled. Our criminal justice system needs to serve the public by keeping locked up criminals likely to repeat.

But as a Christian I think the central interest should be on restoring the criminal, if it is feasible. Jailing people for years is not in anybody's interest. There are better ways to limit someobod's ability to victimize people--maybe name a large island "Hell," and sentence people to live there until whenever?
 
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bling

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Justice and vengeance are distinct concepts. While some argue for punitive justice, which may appear akin to vengeance, others support rehabilitation as the aim of justice, differing significantly from vengeance. Holy scriptures suggest that justice is a divine mandate, emphasizing fairness and restoration, whereas vengeance is an emotional response, often leading to further harm. Justice is about balance and equity, guided by principles and laws, while vengeance is driven by personal retribution. What do you think that the holy scriptures have to say about the systems of justice used in your land?
We can understand God being "just" (treating people equally and fairly). We are told to be "just" in the way we treat others. God's "vengeance is harder to understand, since we are talking about a Father's actions toward His rebellious disobedient children who do not repent. An earthly parent disciplines and does not punish his child, but what if the child refuses to humbly accept Loving discipline?
An earthly parent cannot know if a child will never later down the road accept loving discipline, but God can. If a child is never going to accept Loving discipline God could fairly Lovingly "punish" that child for the sack of the other children to receive that lesson. In any case, God's vengeance might be better be expressed as "punishment". Vengeance (punishment) is for God and we cannot do it since we do not know if the person migh change down the road.
 
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zippy2006

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Justice and vengeance are distinct concepts. While some argue for punitive justice, which may appear akin to vengeance, others support rehabilitation as the aim of justice, differing significantly from vengeance. Holy scriptures suggest that justice is a divine mandate, emphasizing fairness and restoration, whereas vengeance is an emotional response, often leading to further harm. Justice is about balance and equity, guided by principles and laws, while vengeance is driven by personal retribution. What do you think that the holy scriptures have to say about the systems of justice used in your land?
The semantic divergence of the two terms is a recent phenomenon. See for example Aquinas on vengeance (vindicare/vindicatione).
 
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