Rom 11:20-22 "cut off"?

Stone-n-Steel · Jul 8, 2024

Does this refer to being cut off because they do not believe or that if they believe and are saved can they be cut off after salvation?

FYI: I believe that once you leave Adam to join Christ you can't go back (Rom 8:37-39).

Maria Billingsley · Jul 8, 2024

Stone-n-Steel said:
Does this refer to being cut off because they do not believe or that if they believe and are saved can they be cut off after salvation?

FYI: I believe that once you leave Adam to join Christ you can't go back (Rom 8:37-39).

Cut off due to unbelief. Believers in Jesus Christ of Nazareth do not get cut off.
Blessings

HTacianas · Jul 8, 2024

Stone-n-Steel said:
Does this refer to being cut off because they do not believe or that if they believe and are saved can they be cut off after salvation?

FYI: I believe that once you leave Adam to join Christ you can't go back (Rom 8:37-39).

It means precisely what it says.

Rom 11:20 ... Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear.

The Jews were "cut off" because of their unbelief. They were not spared.

Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

You may not be spared as well.

Rom 11:22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off.

God is both good and severe. He was severe towards them, but good towards you, with the condition that you remain in goodness. If you refuse to remain in that goodness you will end up just like them, the Jews. Now, you offer Romans 8:37-39 as a defense against being cut off. But notice that in that list of things that cannot separate you from the love of god you are not mentioned. You are the only one who can separate you from the love of God.

Dan Perez · Jul 9, 2024

Stone-n-Steel said:
Does this refer to being cut off because they do not believe or that if they believe and are saved can they be cut off after salvation?

FYI: I believe that once you leave Adam to join Christ you can't go back (Rom 8:37-39).

I have yet to find where the BODY of Christ are called VINE'S or called BRANCHS , NEVER !!

But is 1 Cor 12:13 the HOLY SPIRIT , places all believers into Christ .

And 1 Cor 12:15 we are his FEET .

Verse 16 , we are his EYES ,

In verse 17 , are Christ's EYE'S

AND HIS SENSE of SMELLING

And in 1 Cor 1-5 that we can JUDGE , verse 3 and when those believers refused , Paul turned that person to Satan for the death of the flesh ,

dan p

Stone-n-Steel · Jul 11, 2024

HTacianas said:
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either.

You may not be spared as well.

So since at the cross the whole world was grafted in and had the possibility of staying in the vine if they believed or were cut off through unbelief?

Ot are you saying that a saved believer can choose to leave that state and die in unbelief?

Dan Perez · Jul 15, 2024

Stone-n-Steel said:
Does this refer to being cut off because they do not believe or that if they believe and are saved can they be cut off after salvation?

FYI: I believe that once you leave Adam to join Christ you can't go back (Rom 8:37-39).

It talking about only Israel !!

dan p

Lukaris · Jul 15, 2024

I believe what the Lord says in John 15:1-10 is what Paul is referring to. It is about all of us.

Dan Perez · Jul 16, 2024

Lukaris said:
I believe what the Lord says in John 15:1-10 is what Paul is referring to. It is about all of us.

And John 15:2 says , that every branch in me that beareth NOT // ME is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGSTIVE fruit He taketh away
And if we ARE // ESTE , is in the Greek present tense , in Christ and we are part of his BODY , and Christ does not TAKE from the B O C .

dan p

Lukaris · Jul 16, 2024

Dan Perez said:
It talking about only Israel !!

dan p

New or Old Testament Israel?

Dan Perez · Jul 16, 2024

Lukaris said:
New or Old Testament Israel?

And the HOLY SPIRIT had Paul write 13 epistles to the B O C and Hebrews to to Israel .

Read 2 Peter 3:15-17 , then write your thoughts ?

dan p

Lukaris · Jul 16, 2024

Dan Perez said:
And the HOLY SPIRIT had Paul write 13 epistles to the B O C and Hebrews to to Israel .

Read 2 Peter 3:15-17 , then write your thoughts ?

dan p

I do not understand your train of thought ( no disrespect intended). I understand that St. Paul is explaining (Romans 11) the case of the natural ( the original Jewish branches) & the wild branches ( the Gentiles) being grafted in. The stumbling of Judaism is serving the purpose of revelation to the Gentiles in the plan of salvation. In all of this, there is a faithful remnant ( Messianic Jews, I think) as in the time of Elijah. So the Gentiles should not be evil to the Jews since salvation is of the Jews ( John 4:22).

I should have clarified earlier that non believers are not of Israel until they profess faith in Jesus Christ. Their judgment is explained in Romans 2 ( which is in God’s hands basically).

So as far as the individual believer is concerned, I think St. Paul is saying the same in Romans 11 as the Lord said in John 15:1-10.

Dan Perez · Jul 18, 2024

Lukaris said:
New or Old Testament Israel?

And anyone will find where Israel will be restored in the OLD TESTAMENT .

Exe 25:38

Eze 37:10

Rom 11:15 , that is just one of the mis-understood books in the bible '

dan p

Guojing · Jul 27, 2024

Stone-n-Steel said:
Does this refer to being cut off because they do not believe or that if they believe and are saved can they be cut off after salvation?

FYI: I believe that once you leave Adam to join Christ you can't go back (Rom 8:37-39).

Paul was referring to the time where the gospel of the kingdom was the saving gospel.

That was during the rise of Israel, which ended at Acts 7.

It will make a comeback during the Tribulation years, so during the Tribulation or Jacob's trouble, it will once again requires faith + works to be saved.

Stone-n-Steel · Jul 28, 2024

Guojing said:
It will make a comeback during the Tribulation years, so during the Tribulation or Jacob's trouble, it will once again requires faith + works to be saved.

I prefer to think it will be works done in faith empowered by the Holly Spirit like they enjoyed in early Acts. There of course will be times that a person will be disobedient and face ultimate consequences like the couple in Acts 5.

My search of scripture gives many examples of people being put in and taken out of the vine and tree, but never do I see a place where someone is taken out of the Body.

Guojing · Jul 28, 2024

Stone-n-Steel said:
I prefer to think it will be works done in faith empowered by the Holly Spirit like they enjoyed in early Acts. There of course will be times that a person will be disobedient and face ultimate consequences like the couple in Acts 5.

Works done in faith is an oxymoron, used by Christians who try to reason to themselves Paul and James are talking about the same thing.

Romans 4:5 tells you the distinction.

Stone-n-Steel said:
My search of scripture gives many examples of people being put in and taken out of the vine and tree, but never do I see a place where someone is taken out of the Body.

The Body of Christ will not be present on Earth during Jacob's trouble, so you are correct.

But during that time, if one who believes at the beginning of the Tribulation, but decide to take the Mark of the Beast later, he would have been eternally condemned. (Rev 14:9-11)

Dan Perez · Jul 29, 2024

Lukaris said:
I believe what the Lord says in John 15:1-10 is what Paul is referring to. It is about all of us.

I see where Peter in 2 Peter 3:16 that what Paul wrote is hard to understand , which the unlearned and unstable WREST .

Just asking for a verse where is referring to us , the BODY of Christ , will help all to understand ??

dan p

Rom 11:20-22 "cut off"?

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