The tangled mess of Christianity and Politics

bèlla said:

I appreciate your courtesy and willingness to weigh in and for sharing your perspective and experiences. But bear in mind, we aren't acquainted either. That is a reality all must recognize when relating in this space. If you're satisfied things are described that's okay.

I shared an opinion and it's up to the reader to draw their own conclusions. Much like we do in other discussions. You're not going to convince everyone to see things in the same light nor is their unwillingness a slight or malicious. It comes with the territory.

That's a hallmark of discourse. We have different experiences and insights and somethings resonate and others don't. That's a part of life. You've made your decision and we feel differently and that's fine. But I'm not trying to bring you to my point of view. I accept your position and the matter is settled. Continuance won't alter mine and I'm permitted to believe otherwise.

~bella

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childeye 2 said:

Before I give your post the winner, I want to thank you personally. Thank you, my brother in Christ for coming to my aid.

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bèlla said:

I don't believe the egalitarian position is the norm. Nor was it evident in recent times when the church confronted a crisis. During the pandemic most people did as you've described and prioritized their welfare and loved ones. They came first.

There's numerous threads attesting to the same and the realizations that followed. Most people won't put their loved ones at risk for others and few will lose their lives on your behalf. I've confronted similar speculations for things hit the fan scenarios with heroic imaginations. Because I've experienced it.

When things fell apart the doors were looked. The lights were out. Curtains were drawn and we watched the mayhem from our windows. Nobody ventured outdoors to intervene or a be a hero. Safety was foremost.

~bella

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Akita Suggagaki said:

You initially asked, "Do you consider any political application of Christianity which isn't secular and liberal, to be legitimate?"

I res[ponded , "No one comes to mind for me. How about for you?"

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childeye 2 said:

That's not sound reasoning. The scenario must suppose all children are treasured by their parents, otherwise the loss of the child becomes meaningless and this exercise in reasoning becomes a moot point.

The scenario already stipulates that there is a special bond of love between parents and their children. God would not be telling anyone to abandon their children just because He's telling us to count other people's children just as worthy of life as their own. So, to be clear, in this scenario, I'm saying He's telling me to not avoid suffering by handing it to someone else to have to suffer. And I'm positive the perspective from self-sacrificial love is not Satan's perspective.

Of course, it's common to look out for our own in this world. But this love that sacrifices oneself for others comes from heaven and is not of this world. Hence, it's the Gospel of Christ crucified preached unto the world.

God not only sent His son to die so that we may live; God knew His son would be stripped naked, mocked, scorned, beaten, scourged and nailed to a cross to die a slow and agonizing death as a spectacle of the ultimate shame, and yet would pray for his crucifiers. This is the incorruptible love on display, the Eternal Spirit that overcomes death and rises from the dead.

Wherefore Jesus says:
John 10:17
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

I don't personally hold to any high opinion of myself. I thank God for His Word and His providence, and I teach my children accordingly.

I think you're forgetting the bond is already established and also that this is a hypothetical. In this hypothetical my beloved children die instead of someone else's, so obviously there would be no relationship to strengthen or weaken since they're dead. However, as a Christian, because they died for the sake of others, I have the hope they will have eternal life.

Respectfully, that's not an accurate depiction. It's built into the parameters of the hypothetical scenario because the scenario presupposes that the children's lives are precious and treasured by their parents, otherwise it's a meaningless thought exercise.

Since it presupposes that all parents cherish their children, it's not even asking whether I owe my children something more than I owe other children. It's actually asking if I would take the suffering of losing my beloved children, or hand that suffering to someone else to have to experience. It's therefore asking if I would sacrifice myself to save others from suffering or sacrifice others to save myself from suffering.

Your argument is about justifying the looking out for the interests of your own ahead of the interests of others in terms of welfare. In those terms you didn't disagree nor agree that it's reasonable that the child with the greater need should come first. But you then changed the scenario to a hypothetical no-win life/death semantical construct. You changed the conditions so that there no longer exist children with greater or lesser needs to factor in.

That's what I mean by moving the goal posts.

When it's about welfare, I'm saying the child with the greater need comes first, whether it's mine or someone else's.

Caring for the welfare of the neediest children first is not evil nor is it forsaking my bonds or duties to my own children.

No, I'm not questioning your morality because I don't believe people can be moral apart from God. It's the same as saying that the Word of God is the Light of mankind. Hence there is no such thing as your or my morality. God's Spirit is Love, the moral power. No one owns God. To Love God with all heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself, is morality.

Since Jesus taught to love others as I would want to be loved, I must count others as my equal, or discount God's Word.

You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying the bond of love between parents and their children is evil. I'm saying it's the carnal part of mankind that cares about His or Her own carnal comfort and discomfort, and it's the spiritual part of mankind that cares about the suffering and well-being of others. Hence the carnal mind is cynical, thinking that everyone is self-serving, caring about their selves over others, and therefore projecting the same onto others.

So, the fact remains that Jesus taught that we're to love others as ourselves, otherwise we're hypocritical in our judgment.

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bèlla said:

Can you elaborate on the conviction as it pertains to the subject? I've seen other threads but I'd rather not speculate.

~bella

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bèlla said:

You can prepare for what's ahead if you aren't deceived. If you're listening to politicians you're unlikely to do so because you trust them. Their job is to distract so you're not aware of what's happening elsewhere. There's more of us than the other but we don't work together and they do.

I understand your position and had a similar conversation with my loved ones to bring them to their senses. They still have their beliefs. But there's contingent plans in place and the realization of what they're confronting and who's behind it.

Perhaps you will be called upon to assist others in similar situations or be a source of respite during the fallout. When we under siege the resources were distributed inequitably. The affluent areas were protected while others fended for themselves. We listened to the police scanner in disbelief. It was a telling representation of classism and foreshadowing of things to come.

Look up the wildfires that occurred in California a few years ago and the homes that were protected by a private force as a result of their insurance policy. They saved them while others were destroyed. I posted this elsewhere and leave it here for the reader's sake. This is our reality.

~bella

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childeye 2 said:

I'm simply preaching to persevere in loving others as ourselves and that God's Love is self-sacrificial. I realize our crosses are tiny compared to Jesus. But when we carry a cross for Christ there will be scorn and mocking and what not. I saw you being misunderstood on this thread A LOT, with terrible things being said about you. And I saw you keep your integrity on your cross showing that you know they know not what they do (the will is not always free). And I felt for you.

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bèlla said:

Can you expound? Does it imply no activity or counter measures on your end?I just want to clarify.

~bella

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