Bishop James Ussher Oct 23, 4004 BCE

Ace777 · Jun 27, 2024

People believe in a literal week of 24 hour days but no one can tell me when this week happened.

I have a very simple question. When did Genesis chapter one take place?

In 1658, Bishop James Ussher, an Anglican cleric and biblical scholar, wrote in his chronology "The Annals of the World" that the world began on October 23, 4004 BCE.

"In the beginning, God created heaven and earth, which beginning of time, according to this chronology, occurred at the beginning of the night which preceded the 23rd of October. If Adam was created on the SIXTH day that would be 23 plus 6 or Oct 29, 4004, So God rests for a day. Oct 30 then we see Adam in the Garden of Eden Oct 31 4004 BCE.

Genesis 2 7 "Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.d"

So are we going back to Oct 29, 2004? Then we read: Genesis 2:8 "8And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed. 9Out of the ground the LORD God gave growth to every tree that is pleasing to the eye and good for food. And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

In Genesis 1 first God created the animals and then man. In Genesis chapter two first God created man and then He creates the animals. In Genesis chapter 1 Man was told to fill the earth and subdue "it". In Genesis chapter two man was told "15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it." So which is it? Fill the earth or cultivate the garden?

Next we are told: "18The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.” In chapter one we have male and female given the whole earth. In Chapter two we have a man and a women give the garden of eden. In chapter one the animals are created first, in chapter two man is created and then the animals and then Eve.

The Sixth Day

24And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, land crawlers, and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that crawls upon the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itselfd and every creature that crawls upon it.”

27So God created man in His own image;

in the image of God He created him;

male and female He created them.e

28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

29Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every seed-bearing plant on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit contains seed. They will be yours for food. 30And to every beast of the earth and every bird of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth—everything that has the breath of life in it—I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

HTacianas · Jun 27, 2024

Ace777 said:
People believe in a literal week of 24 hour days but no one can tell me when this week happened.

I have a very simple question. When did Genesis chapter one take place?

In 1658, Bishop James Ussher, an Anglican cleric and biblical scholar, wrote in his chronology "The Annals of the World" that the world began on October 23, 4004 BCE.

"In the beginning, God created heaven and earth, which beginning of time, according to this chronology, occurred at the beginning of the night which preceded the 23rd of October. If Adam was created on the SIXTH day that would be 23 plus 6 or Oct 29, 4004, So God rests for a day. Oct 30 then we see Adam in the Garden of Eden Oct 31 4004 BCE.

Genesis 2 7 "Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.d"

So are we going back to Oct 29, 2004? Then we read: Genesis 2:8 "8And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed. 9Out of the ground the LORD God gave growth to every tree that is pleasing to the eye and good for food. And in the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."

In Genesis 1 first God created the animals and then man. In Genesis chapter two first God created man and then He creates the animals. In Genesis chapter 1 Man was told to fill the earth and subdue "it". In Genesis chapter two man was told "15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it." So which is it? Fill the earth or cultivate the garden?

Next we are told: "18The LORD God also said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make for him a suitable helper.” In chapter one we have male and female given the whole earth. In Chapter two we have a man and a women give the garden of eden. In chapter one the animals are created first, in chapter two man is created and then the animals and then Eve.

The Sixth Day

24And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, land crawlers, and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.” And it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and everything that crawls upon the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness, to rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, and over all the earth itselfd and every creature that crawls upon it.”

27So God created man in His own image;

in the image of God He created him;

male and female He created them.e

28God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth.”

29Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every seed-bearing plant on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit contains seed. They will be yours for food. 30And to every beast of the earth and every bird of the air and every creature that crawls upon the earth—everything that has the breath of life in it—I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so.

31And God looked upon all that He had made, and indeed, it was very good.

And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Genesis is actually two books more or less woven together. Each book recorded a creation account that differed slightly one from the other. The harmonization of the two books wasn't very good. That's what's causing the confusion.

AV1611VET · Jun 27, 2024

Ace777 said:
In Genesis 1 first God created the animals and then man. In Genesis chapter two first God created man and then He creates the animals. In Genesis chapter 1 Man was told to fill the earth and subdue "it". In Genesis chapter two man was told "15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it." So which is it? Fill the earth or cultivate the garden?

Hi, Ace!

Glad to meet you and have a chance to clear this up.

Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 make up what is called a "framework story."

In other words, it is a story within a story.

In other words, Genesis 2 is a story that is chronologically situate within the Creation Week.

Here's the complete story, putting Genesis 1 & 2 in chronological order:

Genesis 1 & 2 in chronological order:

Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 1:1 ¶ In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 ¶ And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 ¶ And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 ¶ And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 ¶ And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 ¶ And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27a So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;

Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 ¶ And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16 ¶ And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 ¶ And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 ¶ And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31 ¶ And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Genesis 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Ace777 · Jun 27, 2024

HTacianas said:
Genesis is actually two books more or less woven together. Each book recorded a creation account that differed slightly one from the other. The harmonization of the two books wasn't very good. That's what's causing the confusion.

Many people believe that Genesis was a week or 7 24 hour days. I am just wondering when this week was.

Ace777 · Jun 27, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Genesis 1 & 2 in chronological order:

That really helps to get everything in order. But it still does not answer the question did God make animals first and then man or did God make man first and then the animals.

AV1611VET · Jun 27, 2024

Ace777 said:
That really helps to get everything in order. But it still does not answer the question did God make animals first and then man or did God make man first and then the animals.

Animals first.

Then man.

Here's a little test I made up years ago:

1. Define embedded age.
2. Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
3. Why is "heaven" singular in Genesis 1, but plural in Genesis 2?
4. Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a secular map.
5. Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
6. What day was Adam created on?
7. Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
8. Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
9. Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
10. Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.
11. Explain the difference between "miracles" and "magic."
12. What literary device reconciles Genesis 1 and Genesis 2?
13. When discussing Creationism, why should one never let himself stray from Genesis 1 or 2?
14. What was the first object in the universe that had mass?

Ace777 · Jun 27, 2024

AV1611VET said:
ere's a little test I made up years ago:

Do you have answers for your questions? Where did you put this test so you could find it years later?

AV1611VET · Jun 27, 2024

Ace777 said:
Do you have answers for your questions?

Yes.

Ace777 said:
Where did you put this test so you could find it years later?

Post 57

I also put it in my own personal Bible software.

Ace777 · Jun 28, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Animals first.

Then man.

Here's a little test I made up years ago:

1. Define embedded age.
2. Explain the difference between creatio ex nihilo and creatio ex materia; and give two examples of each.
3. Why is "heaven" singular in Genesis 1, but plural in Genesis 2?
4. Eden in the Bible is known as __________ on a secular map.
5. Put the following in order that they appeared in the universe: whales, stars, trees, sun, land, sea, outer space.
6. What day was Adam created on?
7. Was the universe created a closed system and, if not, what kind of energy did it run off of? if it was created open, what closed it?
8. Describe terra aqua and what kind of water it consisted of and why.
9. Photosynthesis required light from the sun prior to the Fall. true or false?
10. Explain how a 24-hour day could transpire before the sun was created.
11. Explain the difference between "miracles" and "magic."
12. What literary device reconciles Genesis 1 and Genesis 2?
13. When discussing Creationism, why should one never let himself stray from Genesis 1 or 2?
14. What was the first object in the universe that had mass?

What thread was that post 800 for the order of events?

AV1611VET · Jun 28, 2024

Ace777 said:
What thread was that post 800 for the order of events?

POST 800

Ace777 · Jun 28, 2024

AV1611VET said:
POST 800

I am not quite sure how the generations in Genesis 2:4 comes before the Heaven and the Earth in Genesis 1:1. Or how anything could come before the beginning.

ViaCrucis · Jun 29, 2024

Simply put, the authors of Genesis weren't trying to write a literal account of creation. There are two creation stories, neither of which are supposed to be taken literally.

When you take the creation stories literally the result is either nonsense, or it requires someone to make things up--no matter how ridiculous, how fanciful, or fabulously silly--in order to "make it come out right".

And a good rule of thumb: If you have to make things up in order to make your interpretation of the Bible "correct", then you're doing it wrong.

This is why most Christians, historically, didn't try and over-literalize the creation stories, but recognized that the stories have far more important things to say about God, man, and the world. And it's why the creation stories in Genesis don't offer us scientific information. They aren't supposed to, that's not why they were written; for the same reason that St. Paul's letter to the Romans isn't meant to tell us how to change a car's headlight.

-CryptoLutheran

AV1611VET · Jun 29, 2024

ViaCrucis said:
Simply put, the authors of Genesis weren't trying to write a literal account of creation.

Genesis doesn't start out "once upon a time;" it starts out "in the beginning."

keras · Jul 6, 2024

Ace777 said:
I have a very simple question. When did Genesis chapter one take place?

Bishop Ussher was wrong. He could not have known the truth of the Prophies. Daniel 12:4

7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:

Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3972.5 BC subtracted back to 586 BCE, from:

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC

Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years so far = 2000

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8
Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BC.

1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:33 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:36 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18-20 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year of 586 BC.

Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5
3386.5 + 586 = 3972.5 years from 1BC to when Adam was Created.

586 BC + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5/30 AD, the date of Jesus’ acknowledgment as King of Israel. Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.
3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years from Adam to Jesus.

June 2024 AD - 29.5/30 AD = 1994 years since Jesus made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem on the first Palm Sunday.
1994 + 4000 = 5994 years, is where we are now. 5992 + 6 = 6000 years
2024 AD + 6 = 2030 AD
Exactly 2000 years for the present Church age, until Jesus Returns.

4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam. Next comes the 1000 year reign of King Jesus.
The final wrap up and the Great White Throne judgement of all people: 7000 years.

Revelation 22...I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth and the Holy City, made ready like a bride... A new Beginning!

Addendum: Because Jesus worked in His mission on earth for 3½ years, the two ‘days’ prophesied in Hosea 6:2 and confirmed by Jesus in Luke 13:32, that He will spend in heaven from Ascension to Return, maybe should have the 3½ years added to it, making a total of 2003.5 years since 29.5 AD = 2033 for His Return and the commencement of the Millennium.

Ref: logostelos.info

AV1611VET · Jul 6, 2024

keras said:
Bishop Ussher was wrong.

Close enough, in my opinion.

keras said:
Ref: logostelos.info

All these calculations are impressive.

But remember:

Academia got their figures wrong and ended up messing up the calendar.

Two major examples:

1. They played around changing names in the Bible, and as a result, [claim to have lost] four years in the past; and now say Jesus was born in 4 BC.

2. They horsed around with the calendar, and as a result, people went to bed on 4 October 1582 and woke up the next morning on 15 October.

Also, don't forget that God stopped the rotation of the earth for nearly a day in Joshua's time and moved the sun back fifteen degrees in Hezekiah's.

Ace777 · Jul 6, 2024

AV1611VET said:
1. They played around changing names in the Bible, and as a result, [claim to have lost] four years in the past; and now say Jesus was born in 4 BC.

The hebrew calender has 360 days in a year and 12 30 day months. So the seasons begin later every year because an actual year is 364 days. So that is where the minus four days came from is converting from a 360 to a 364 day year. It is to complicated for me to figure out.

AV1611VET · Jul 6, 2024

Ace777 said:
The hebrew calender has 360 days in a year and 12 30 day months. So the seasons begin later every year because an actual year is 364 days. So that is where the minus four days came from is converting from a 360 to a 364 day year. It is to complicated for me to figure out.

It's actually 4 years -- not 4 days.

Something about someone named Quirinus being the governor of Syria.

keras · Jul 7, 2024

AV1611VET said:
Close enough, in my opinion.

A 31.5 year error, is not close at all.

AV1611VET said:
All these calculations are impressive.

The figures I used are as Written in the Bible and from the known historical date of the Babylon Conquest of Judah and the First Advent.
They are simple additions or subtractions. Why don't you accept them?

Ace777 said:
The hebrew calender has 360 days in a year

Using any calendar is confusion. It is the simple year of the orbit of the earth around the sun, that counts.

Ace777 · Jul 7, 2024

keras said:
Using any calendar is confusion. It is the simple year of the orbit of the earth around the sun, that counts.

Earth revolves in orbit around the Sun in 365 days, 6 hours, 9 minutes

dlamberth · Jul 7, 2024

Bishop James Ussher Oct 23, 4004 BCE

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