Why don't protestants make the sign of the Cross?

Cis.jd · Jun 11, 2024

2PhiloVoid said:
However, if you feel making the gesture and affirming the Trinity through that gesture is in some way beneficial or a blessing, then hold onto its importance.

eleos1954 said:
There's nothing in the Bible calling for Christians to make the sign of the cross. It's a ritual invented by Catholics.

I dont believe there are any supernatural effects to doing the cross, but it's more for honor and also keeping align with what christians have done for hundreds of years. It's more of keeping the separation between real christians and those who claim to be christian yet deny the Trinity, claiming that christians of the 1st church never believed it.
I think the majority of the protestant mindset, especially against keeping the traditions passed on, has been the reason why christian based cults were born. The further you go from the traditions that they passed down by word or mouth or by letter, the closer out the door you go from Christianity and sadly so many don't realize it.

2PhiloVoid · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
I dont believe there are any supernatural effects to doing the cross, but it's more for honor and also keeping align with what christians have done for hundreds of years. It's more of keeping the separation between real christians and those who claim to be christian yet deny the Trinity, claiming that christians of the 1st church never believed it.

I don't know of any "real" Christians who deny the Trinity; certainly none of the hundreds of diverse Christian Theologians and Philosophers that I draw from for my Christian faith deny the Trinity.

Cis.jd said:
I think the majority of the protestant mindset, especially against keeping the traditions passed on, has been the reason why christian based cults were born. The further you go from the traditions that they passed down by word or mouth or by letter, the closer out the door you go from Christianity and sadly so

Unfortunately, that's a pseudo-argument. One can go further away from some selected aspects of the overall Christian Tradition but not find himself any closer to the door of apostasy than anyone else. I'm way too educated to assume that certain segments of the Christian Faith have it all, or have ever had it all, figured out, especially not systematically. And I'll say this, not caring how many times other Christians want to throw 1 Corinthians 8:2 at me for it.

And trust me, being that this is the "Philosophy" section and not the "Theology" section, you don't want me to have to come out of the Rabbit Hole and pull you in to it. Maybe just be a little more charitable to other, fellow Trinitarian Christians and you won't have to feel uncomfortable. It's that simple, really.

Have a blessed day!

d taylor · Jun 11, 2024

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I think i may come down to people who do this sign of the cross are people who aligned with past tradition.

As for me i do not align to past tradition. Just solid Biblical teaching, expounding on The Bible and its teachings instructions, history, creation account, prophecy future and past. And the most important area, what people must believe to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Hazelelponi · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"

I wonder why Protestants do not do this? I know that it's not made a rule in scripture, but I feel it's a part of christian history that should never be broken. It shows that our faith was always the Trinity, despite the lies that many cults and other religions claim. For example, Islam, Jehovah's wittness, Iglesia Ni Cristo, Mormons, etc all claim an original Christian church that never believed in Christ's divinity or the Trinity, but this sign serves to be a historical remembrance that we always did.

The reason why I have made this question and why I ended up thinking that this gesture has to be universally expressed by christians is mainly because of my experience with christian cults. I've been to JW's and the Iglesia Ni Cristo services, and they are very frightening and disheartening.. and despite them teaching false things about the Bible and rejecting the divinity, they for some reason end their prayers with "In Jesus' name", the way protestants do.
These cults will never end with the sign of the cross, they will never say "the Father, Son, and HS" because they fully reject the truth of God. Because of this, I feel that the sign of the cross gesture has to be seen as important to protestants as well.

I don't do this "sign of the cross' and I don't understand it.

When I pray I pray to the Father, having the ability to approach the throne of God in confidence because of the sacrifice of Christ, which is verbally acknowledged at the closing of prayer when you say "In Jesus Name I pray, Amen" Because Jesus is our cover, our authority. We don't come as people who come in our own name, we come as people under the authority of the Kings Son, thus, have confidence to come before the Throne.

The only lack of verbal acknowledgement is that of the Holy Spirit, but as prayer is also through the power of the Holy Spirit I have never needed to or felt the need of any verbal acknowledgement.

The Holy Spirit is my constant companion, so it's not something I think to verbally acknowledge, and I don't feel the need to since that's not what Jesus taught.

I'm sure it's a lovely tradition, but I see no need to partake in it. If you pray in public and don't make the sign of the cross people still see that you have prayed to God.

Though perhaps I should acknowledge the Holy Spirit before God more instead of just talking to the Holy Spirit. It's a good thought anyway.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 11, 2024

RileyG said:
You’re right, but I will add, from my experience, ELCA and LCMS Lutherans never made the sign of the cross outside of Church or during their devotional time. They considered it a “Catholic thing.”

I remember once we had our neighbor Helen over, God rest her soul, a lifelong Lutheran who was ELCA. During our grace before meals (Catholic version) during thanksgiving supper one year, she did not cross herself as we prayed.

(She was in her 90s then and her family lived far away)

Well, some don't but some do. We are Lutheran Church Canada, in fellowship with LCMS. It is done in remembrance of our Baptism in the name of the trinity, and that we are sealed with the sign of the cross. Those who do so are doing so not because of a legalistic compulsion, rather out of a joy in the sure and certain hope given through the Cross by Jesus Christ.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 11, 2024

d taylor said:
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I think i may come down to people who do this sign of the cross are people who aligned with past tradition.

As for me i do not align to past tradition. Just solid Biblical teaching, expounding on The Bible and its teachings instructions, history, creation account, prophecy future and past. And the most important area, what people must believe to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

If you are talking past traditions for Lutherans, then that would go back to the first centuries of Christianity; For Lutherans, the tradition never universally stopped after the reformation; only those calling them selves Lutheran but have been influenced by American reformed and evangelical traditions have abandoned the practice; same goes for Anglicans outside of High Church and Anglo-catholic traditions. In the Small Catechism Martin Luther instructs regarding morning and evening prayer at home to:

Likewise in our Service books/hymnals the liturgy is rubricised with red greek crosses showing where one may make the sign of the Holy Cross.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 11, 2024

timewerx said:
Let's just say some scriptural passages would refer to the practice as being evil because the Bible did not instruct believers to do it and to "add" or "take away" from the Bible is considered evil.

<Snip>

By that definition, you are doing evil and sinning because you posted on a computer and scripture is silent; how about Planes, trains and automobile.

This is the most absurd reaoning I have ever heard.

Cis.jd · Jun 11, 2024

Hazelelponi said:
I don't do this "sign of the cross' and I don't understand it.

When I pray I pray to the Father, having the ability to approach the throne of God in confidence because of the sacrifice of Christ, which is verbally acknowledged at the closing of prayer when you say "In Jesus Name I pray, Amen" Because Jesus is our cover, our authority. We don't come as people who come in our own name, we come as people under the authority of the Kings Son, thus, have confidence to come before the Throne.

The only lack of verbal acknowledgement is that of the Holy Spirit, but as prayer is also through the power of the Holy Spirit I have never needed to or felt the need of any verbal acknowledgement.

I'm not saying it is wrong in ending a prayer "in jesus' name" over "the sign of the cross" however, it is keeping alive what christians have not only believed but the faith they fought for through this gesture. As I said, even the cults who deny Jesus to be God, end their prayers "in Jesus' name", they don't do the sign of the cross because they reject the trinity.

The whole point about this is how the protestant mindset of stepping away further from Christian tradition is actually taking steps further from christianity and closer to the doors of heretical biblical views which are shown through the teachings of the JW's, Mormon's, and the INC.

Hazelelponi said:
The Holy Spirit is my constant companion, so it's not something I think to verbally acknowledge, and I don't feel the need to since that's not what Jesus taught.

Though perhaps I should acknowledge the Holy Spirit before God more instead of just talking to the Holy Spirit. It's a good thought anyway.

Ok, but it's this view that is almost going close to the views of the unitarians in regards to the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit

We believe that the Holy Spirit is the power sent by the Father in the name of Christ, to teach and remind His messengers of all things that Christ said.

incmedia.org

This cult right here denies the trinity, and they think the HS is just a "power of God". If you watch some of their debates, not only do they think that all Trinitarians are going to hell but they ridicule the doctrine to be that unbiblical/false because of the fact that certain protestants don't pray to the HS because of it being unbiblical.

Cis.jd · Jun 11, 2024

d taylor said:
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Why do you need reminding of The Trinity. For me this is an unforgettable area of God.

Because many Christian cults claim 3 things.

1. They are the true christian church that just got lost somewhere in time and eventually apostasy happened,
2. everyone before them got it wrong until "we showed up",
3. They are christian.

These christian cults also end their prayers "in jesus' name", they also negatively condemn any form of christian tradition (or what they view as catholic tradition). The rejection of Christian tradition (with the sign of the cross being an example) has made Restoration Protestantism relative to these cults than the actual christians that taught God is triune; that taught God became flesh. The sign of the cross is that historical reminder that we hold what was actually passed down from the apostles, this has been the gesture of all christians for hundreds of years so wy chose to divide it?

Cis.jd · Jun 11, 2024

I just to share stuff to give you all more background as to where I am coming from

Why You Should NOT Make the Sign of the Cross

Not all Christian religions use the sign of the cross, so why make the gesture? What is the meaning of it and is making the sign of the cross Biblical?

incmedia.org

I guess the main point or issue i'm having is that in some way, I do blame Protestantism (mostly the ones from the restoration age such as the Baptists and Non-Denoms) for birthing out horrible cults like this. This point of view of rejecting whatever traditions passed down by the Church and just stick to your bible is a protestant rooted one, and just by the dialogue of some of the responses here in this thread (including about the holy spirit) it just shows where these scam cults got their ideas from.

The importance of the sign of the cross is that it is one of those traditions that we must keep. It is what shows we are christian, it shows what christianity has been since 1CE.

FaithT · Jun 11, 2024

MarkRohfrietsch said:
Well, some don't but some do. We are Lutheran Church Canada, in fellowship with LCMS. It is done in remembrance of our Baptism in the name of the trinity, and that we are sealed with the sign of the cross. Those who do so are doing so not because of a legalistic compulsion, rather out of a joy in the sure and certain hope given through the Cross by Jesus Christ.

When I was LCMS I think I crossed myself sometimes.

d taylor · Jun 11, 2024

Cis.jd said:
Because many Christian cults claim 3 things.

1. They are the true christian church that just got lost somewhere in time and eventually apostasy happened,
2. everyone before them got it wrong until "we showed up",
3. They are christian.

These christian cults also end their prayers "in jesus' name", they also negatively condemn any form of christian tradition (or what they view as catholic tradition). The rejection of Christian tradition (with the sign of the cross being an example) has made Restoration Protestantism relative to these cults than the actual christians that taught God is triune; that taught God became flesh. The sign of the cross is that historical reminder that we hold what was actually passed down from the apostles, this has been the gesture of all christians for hundreds of years so wy chose to divide it?

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You have used christian cults a few times, who is a christian cult?

Cis.jd · Jun 11, 2024

d taylor said:
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You have used christian cults a few times, who is a christian cult?

Why You Should NOT Make the Sign of the Cross

Not all Christian religions use the sign of the cross, so why make the gesture? What is the meaning of it and is making the sign of the cross Biblical?

incmedia.org

dzheremi · Jun 11, 2024

eleos1954 said:
There's nothing in the Bible calling for Christians to make the sign of the cross. It's a ritual invented by Catholics.

No it isn't. The Oriental Orthodox Church has never been a part of the Roman Catholic Church in any sense (since RCism didn't exist as its own separate communion until several centuries after the rupture caused by Chalcedon), and we've always done it.

Cis.jd · Jun 11, 2024

dzheremi said:
No it isn't. The Oriental Orthodox Church has never been a part of the Roman Catholic Church in any sense (since RCism didn't exist as its own separate communion until several centuries after the rupture caused by Chalcedon), and we've always done it.

If you look at the link I provided. The comments that Protestants have made against doing the sign of the cross (invented by catholics), is the same reasoning in that cult website.

Each step they took away from the Church became gradual steps further away from Christianity. Now, many protestants who have held this view that they must detach further away from the church have eventually become gradual steps away from Christianity, they share more common characteristics with these cults i've mentioned, than the christians of the 1st century.

d taylor · Jun 12, 2024

Cis.jd said:
Why You Should NOT Make the Sign of the Cross

Not all Christian religions use the sign of the cross, so why make the gesture? What is the meaning of it and is making the sign of the cross Biblical?

incmedia.org

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Ok you point to this church cult ( Iglesia Ni Cristo or Church Of Christ) and i agree they are a false religious cult.

As this is what they say about Jesus
Not God-Man
But we do not subscribe to the belief that Christ is a God-Man. He is man in nature according to His own testimony (John 8:40) and the teachings of His Apostles (I Tim. 2:5; Matt. 1:18).

Christ is Human
The attributes of a human being are found in Christ. He hungered (Matt. 4:2), thirsted (John 19:28), became weary or tired (John 4:6), slept (Matt. 8:24), and died (Matt. 27:50; I Cor. 15:3). However, Christ as distinct from all men, is the only one Who did not sin (I Pet. 2:21-22; Heb. 4:15).
He has been exalted by God and given a name above all other names, that at the name of Christ every knee should bow, those in heaven, and those on earth (Phil. 2:9-11). He has been placed by God far above all principality, power, might and dominion, and every name that is named, and all things have been put under His feet (Eph. 1:21-22). Christ will eventually subject all His power and authority to the true God (I Cor. 15:27-28). He had in so many instances introduced Himself as the Son of God but never did He appropriate the title “God” nor “God the Son” for Himself because He is not God but a man.

So i do not see the connection of this church cult to Protestant churches like Methodist, Southern Baptist, other Baptist, Presbyterian. Are you saying because Southern Baptist, etc.... do not make the sign of the cross, they are sharing the same beliefs as this Iglesia Ni Cristo or Church Of Christ.

Strong in Him · Jun 12, 2024

Cis.jd said:
"In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit"

I wonder why Protestants do not do this? I know that it's not made a rule in scripture, but I feel it's a part of christian history that should never be broken. It shows that our faith was always the Trinity,

Protestants believe in the Trinity.
This does not mean that we have, or need, to make the sign of the cross.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 12, 2024

Strong in Him said:
Protestants believe in the Trinity.
This does not mean that we have, or need, to make the sign of the cross.

Nor does it mean that we should not do it. There are lots of things that one can say are unnessecessairy, but one needs to ask do they point to Jesus Christ? What points to Christ more than the Cross; like the hymn writer said: "In the cross of Christ I glory"; it points to the Trinity; the Father who created us; the Son who redeemed us; and the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us.

If one does it to show how "pious" one is, that would be a wrong usage; when one does it as a remembrance of their baptism and as a reminder of their faith in Christ and the Trinity and a unity with all believers who accept the universal doctrine of the Trinity, then it is good.

Churches that reject these types of "symbols" often rely on personal faith more than corporate faith and it has been my experience that these Churches seem to have a greater risk of a diversity of both right and wrong belief being held by their members.

Below, compliments of Wikipaedia is a good explanation of a Christian Principal. "Practicing what you preach"; this principal goes back to the very beginnings of the Church:

Lex orandi, lex credendi

Description

Lex orandi, lex credendi, sometimes expanded as Lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi, is a motto in Christian tradition, which means that prayer and belief are integral to each other and that liturgy is not distinct from theology. It refers to the relationship between worship and belief. Wikipedia

dzheremi · Jun 12, 2024

Our priest once put it like this (and I'm sure he got it from somewhere else, as I've also heard this sort of explanation from Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo as well, so it appears to be something of a "pan-OO" thing): in the sign of the cross, we recall the entire salvation history of the world -- that the Father sent His Son, our Lord, God, and Savior Jesus Christ, and through Christ's victory over death upon the holy and life-giving cross, we are taken from the left side (among those who are condemned) to the right (among those who are saved). Each of these points and the motion between them follows each action as you'd expect, with the "coming down from heaven" of Christ being symbolized as we draw our hand from our head to our heart, and the moving from condemnation to salvation being symbolized as we move our hand from the left shoulder to the right. (NB: Oriental Orthodox practice is to cross ourselves from left-to-right with exactly this sort of understanding in mind; we did not, as the Roman Catholics did, originally cross ourselves from right to left only to switch later on. We have always done it this way.)

2PhiloVoid · Jun 12, 2024

Cis.jd said:
If you look at the link I provided. The comments that Protestants have made against doing the sign of the cross (invented by catholics), is the same reasoning in that cult website.

Each step they took away from the Church became gradual steps further away from Christianity. Now, many protestants who have held this view that they must detach further away from the church have eventually become gradual steps away from Christianity, they share more common characteristics with these cults i've mentioned, than the christians of the 1st century.

Unfortunately, this way of thinking on your part is fraught with logical fallacies, and since this is the philosophy section, I'll leave it up to you to apply the appropriate sub-fields of philosophy to figure out why this is the case.

If you wanted to be contentious, you should have placed this thread in the proper section of Theology rather than in Philosophy.

Why don't protestants make the sign of the Cross?

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