Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge?

Vambram · Jun 10, 2024

Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge? - Apologetics Press

apologeticspress.org

When a naturalist encounters a scientific challenge he cannot explain naturally, he cannot claim a supernatural explanation to his problem without contradicting his belief in naturalism. Having examined sufficient evidence to be a supernaturalist, a biblical creationist does have the option of claiming a supernatural explanation, but when is it appropriate to do so?

Of course, the most obvious time that it is appropriate to say “God did it” as a response to a proposed scientific difficulty with Creation is when the Bible explicitly says He did something. From time to time, however, we might come across a new quibble, about which Scripture is silent, and to which we cannot immediately give a reasonable answer. It would be easy to respond to such quibbles by simply saying “God did it” as our answer to the problem. Such an answer, however, becomes a form of the “God of the Gaps” argument, where God is inserted to solve a problem (or as proof that God must exist in order for the problem to be solved).

AlexB23 · Jun 10, 2024

Vambram said:
Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge? - Apologetics Press

Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge?

apologeticspress.org

When a naturalist encounters a scientific challenge he cannot explain naturally, he cannot claim a supernatural explanation to his problem without contradicting his belief in naturalism. Having examined sufficient evidence to be a supernaturalist, a biblical creationist does have the option of claiming a supernatural explanation, but when is it appropriate to do so?

Of course, the most obvious time that it is appropriate to say “God did it” as a response to a proposed scientific difficulty with Creation is when the Bible explicitly says He did something. From time to time, however, we might come across a new quibble, about which Scripture is silent, and to which we cannot immediately give a reasonable answer. It would be easy to respond to such quibbles by simply saying “God did it” as our answer to the problem. Such an answer, however, becomes a form of the “God of the Gaps” argument, where God is inserted to solve a problem (or as proof that God must exist in order for the problem to be solved).

I'd say God did it, but also, we can use science to prove God's works, as Psalm 111:2 talks about how faith and science go hand in hand. Look at the Cambrian explosion, where in a short period of time, life went from simple organisms to complex fish and sea creatures. Unguided evolution in such a short period of time would be impossible, so therefore, theistic evolution or direct creation by God happened during that moment.

The Fossils Still Say No: The Cambrian Explosion | The Institute for Creation Research

www.icr.org

RileyG · Jun 10, 2024

AlexB23 said:
I'd say God did it, but also, we can use science to prove God's works, as Psalm 111:2 talks about how faith and science go hand in hand. Look at the Cambrian explosion, where in a short period of time, life went from simple organisms to complex fish and sea creatures. Unguided evolution in such a short period of time would be impossible, so therefore, theistic evolution or direct creation by God happened during that moment.

The Fossils Still Say No: The Cambrian Explosion | The Institute for Creation Research

www.icr.org

I agree.

AlexB23 · Jun 10, 2024

RileyG said:
I agree.

Amen to this. @Vambram, what are your thoughts on Psalm 111:2 (my favorite Psalm by the way)?

Psalm 111:2 (ESV & NRSV-CE): Great are the works of the Lord, studied by all who delight in them.
Psalm 111:2 (NKJV): The works of the Lord are great, Studied by all who have pleasure in them.

Psalm 111:2 expresses wonder at God's great works or deeds, which are studied by all who delight in them. Scientists engage with these works through their research and discovery. Faith and science complement each other, as both acknowledge God's presence and power in the natural world. Scientific inquiry is driven by a belief in a deeper meaning to the universe and a recognition of God's involvement. The verse affirms that studying God's works deepens our appreciation for and connection to the LORD.

Vambram · Jun 10, 2024

Psalms 111:2

His works of creation are great, being made out of nothing, are the effects of great power, and the produce of great wisdom, and which greatly display the glory of their Creator. The works of the Lord God are great, which He does daily, especially such as concern the church and people of God, for whom He does great things thereby giving us reason to be glad and praise His name. The miracles of Christ He did here on earth were great. Some of those miracles of Christ had not been known from the creation of the world. However, greater things were shown Him, and done by Him, particularly the work of redemption, a work which angels and men were unequal to, a work which none but the great God and our Savior could effect, and is truly called the great salvation.

Also, I do agree that there is a pleasure in the contemplation of the works of the Lord God's Creation. It is pleasurable and wonderful to behold the power, wisdom, and goodness of God in them, and His care over all His creatures. I love how awesome that He makes all things to work together for the good of his people. It is delightful to observe the works of grace and how the glory of all the divine perfections is displayed in them.

Psalms 111:3-4

Every work of His serves to display his glory, and set off the greatness of His majesty. The heavens and the earth are full of His glory. All of His works are marvelous ones. His works of creation came out of nothing at the words of His commands. All things in Creation are as they were from the beginning. The sun, moon, and stars, keep their course and station. Cold and heat, summer and winter, seedtime and harvest, are as they always were; remarkable providences have been carefully recorded, and memorials of them handed down to posterity.

KevinT · Jun 10, 2024

Vambram said:
Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge? - Apologetics Press

Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge?

apologeticspress.org

When a naturalist encounters a scientific challenge he cannot explain naturally, he cannot claim a supernatural explanation to his problem without contradicting his belief in naturalism. Having examined sufficient evidence to be a supernaturalist, a biblical creationist does have the option of claiming a supernatural explanation, but when is it appropriate to do so?

Of course, the most obvious time that it is appropriate to say “God did it” as a response to a proposed scientific difficulty with Creation is when the Bible explicitly says He did something. From time to time, however, we might come across a new quibble, about which Scripture is silent, and to which we cannot immediately give a reasonable answer. It would be easy to respond to such quibbles by simply saying “God did it” as our answer to the problem. Such an answer, however, becomes a form of the “God of the Gaps” argument, where God is inserted to solve a problem (or as proof that God must exist in order for the problem to be solved).

"Science" has come to mean that which can be manipulated, tested, kicked around, measured in the laboratory. So I agree that it is not appropriate to provide a supernatural explanation when engaging with someone on a "scientific" matter.

So when the situation comes up, I try to get the other person to consider that the scientific method is not the only way to consider the universe. But if they try to lock it to only that which can be tested in the lab, then there is no where for the conversation to go that would include the supernatural.

AlexB23 · Jun 10, 2024

Vambram said:
Psalms 111:2

His works of creation are great, being made out of nothing, are the effects of great power, and the produce of great wisdom, and which greatly display the glory of their Creator. The works of the Lord God are great, which He does daily, especially such as concern the church and people of God, for whom He does great things thereby giving us reason to be glad and praise His name. The miracles of Christ He did here on earth were great. Some of those miracles of Christ had not been known from the creation of the world. However, greater things were shown Him, and done by Him, particularly the work of redemption, a work which angels and men were unequal to, a work which none but the great God and our Savior could effect, and is truly called the great salvation.

Also, I do agree that there is a pleasure in the contemplation of the works of the Lord God's Creation. It is pleasurable and wonderful to behold the power, wisdom, and goodness of God in them, and His care over all His creatures. I love how awesome that He makes all things to work together for the good of his people. It is delightful to observe the works of grace and how the glory of all the divine perfections is displayed in them.

Psalms 111:3-4

Every work of His serves to display his glory, and set off the greatness of His majesty. The heavens and the earth are full of His glory. All of His works are marvelous ones. His works of creation came out of nothing at the words of His commands. All things in Creation are as they were from the beginning. The sun, moon, and stars, keep their course and station. Cold and heat, summer and winter, seedtime and harvest, are as they always were; remarkable providences have been carefully recorded, and memorials of them handed down to posterity.

Amen to this. I love these verses, and go to show how beautiful God's creation is.

Some of these miracles are studied by scientists.

There are rare instances where bread at Catholic churches turn into physical flesh and blood, known as a Eucharistic miracle. But for most times, the bread does not turn into physical flesh or blood from our perspective, but instead transforms into flesh and blood invisibly, known as transubstantiation. I did not believe in transubstantiation, until learning about Eucharistic miracles in late 2021 or early 2022. Eucharistic miracles have been studied by scientists, and in all of the confirmed miracles, the blood was type AB. In other Eucharistic miracles, the Catholic church has dismissed some, as red fungus sometimes grows on old bread. So, rigorous scientific testing is used to confirm these miracles.

Eucharistic miracle of Lanciano - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This 9 minute video talks about type AB blood discovered on Eucharistic miracles (ages 15+ because of blood):

Eucharistic miracles: https://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/english_pdf/Lanciano2.pdf

awstar · Jun 11, 2024

Vambram said:
Such an answer, however, becomes a form of the “God of the Gaps” argument, where God is inserted to solve a problem (or as proof that God must exist in order for the problem to be solved).

The other side has their own "God of the Gaps" They are the god of billions of years, the god of natural selection, and the god of the homogeneous and isotropic universe. All three are the gods of untruth. Why shouldn't they refrain from calling on their gods until they can prove they exist.

pgp_protector · Jun 11, 2024

My first though on this question reminded me of this.

AlexB23 · Jun 11, 2024

pgp_protector said:
My first though on this question reminded me of this.
View attachment 349971

Good one.

eleos1954 · Jun 11, 2024

Vambram said:
Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge? - Apologetics Press

Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge?

apologeticspress.org

When a naturalist encounters a scientific challenge he cannot explain naturally, he cannot claim a supernatural explanation to his problem without contradicting his belief in naturalism. Having examined sufficient evidence to be a supernaturalist, a biblical creationist does have the option of claiming a supernatural explanation, but when is it appropriate to do so?

Of course, the most obvious time that it is appropriate to say “God did it” as a response to a proposed scientific difficulty with Creation is when the Bible explicitly says He did something. From time to time, however, we might come across a new quibble, about which Scripture is silent, and to which we cannot immediately give a reasonable answer. It would be easy to respond to such quibbles by simply saying “God did it” as our answer to the problem. Such an answer, however, becomes a form of the “God of the Gaps” argument, where God is inserted to solve a problem (or as proof that God must exist in order for the problem to be solved).

When science doesn't fully understand or lack material proof of something they create theories as possible natural explanations.

Some Christians do the same thing in regard to attributing some things being Gods will or cause.

God is in ultimate control ... nothing happens unless He allows or causes things to happen ... we very often don't understand as we are not privy to Gods sovereignty in many matters ... whether He causes some things or allows them ... we trust in Him fully ... we have faith.

All problems have been dealt with ... however, all of Gods plans have not been fully executed yet .... when judgement has been completed ... He will return and execute His judgement for eternity ... we trust in that. There's a spiritual war going on (war is highly destructive) ... He will end it someday.

Theory or faith. Material or spiritual. It depends on which view one accepts.

I'm looking forward to His return !!!!

awstar · Jun 11, 2024

eleos1954 said:
I'm looking forward to His return !!!!

Amen to this!

AlexB23 · Jun 11, 2024

awstar said:
Amen to this!

Amen as well. Looking forward to Christ's return.

Stephen Andrew · Jun 13, 2024

Peace to all,

Thanks to all and great information!

To me, logic has more power that the finite sciences understanding in math, chemistry and physics, etc. The state of eternity as unfailing is with the removal of any chance of failure now and for the future as man's finite understanding is limited in the finite mind. In logic, the logic of the structure or pattern of the image is manifested by the choice of the chosen spirit as regenerated, glorified, "changed." Logically, We know AB+ type of Body fluid is the universal acceptor for The Body and it is said with high confidence that this type matches the image or pattern or "type" of The Creator. Logically, to know like God with His Spirit Choice, will manifest eternity as incorruptible and immortal and glorified as God already is. This is to me the logical will of the Father to transfigure the created image into The Creator, God, The Father. Choice was given to Adam and Eve to create love, and through the New Adam, love is fulfilled in faith and morality in Him and through Him and to Him.

To me, this is the logic of the Works of The Divine Being, from the beginning.

God created love through the Power of the Spirit, and gave love freely through His Son in union with the Spirit will of The Father with all mankind as one in being with The Father and The Son, becoming glorified in The Body of The Christ.

Peace always,
Stephen

zippy2006 · Jun 22, 2024

Vambram said:
Such an answer, however, becomes a form of the “God of the Gaps” argument, where God is inserted to solve a problem (or as proof that God must exist in order for the problem to be solved).

If saying that God did something involves a "God of the gaps" argument, then some "God of the gaps" arguments have true conclusions.* Secular orthodoxy imposes upon us the dogma that "God of the gaps" is always a bad argument, or in other words: that "God did it" is never an acceptable response. This secular dogma needs to simply be rejected, for it is based on the premise that God either does not exist or does not do anything. More precisely, it is based on the naturalistic premise that miracles never occur (and therefore God does not or cannot perform miracles).

Your apologetics source basically says, "God did some things, but only those things that Scripture attests to." This is also unacceptable, for it results in the conclusion that God does not do anything miraculous after the final page of Scripture was written. On this view God has not done anything miraculous for at least the past 1800 years.

The answer is that God does miraculous things, and most of these things are not attested to by Scripture. When is it appropriate to conclude that God did something miraculous? Roughly speaking, when 1) there is no plausible natural explanation, and 2) there is a positive reason to believe that God would be acting.

* Note that the primary sense of a "God of the gaps" argument is an argument from ignorance for God's existence, not a mere attribution of a mysterious event to God's causality.

KevinT · Jun 22, 2024

zippy2006 said:
The answer is that God does miraculous things, and most of these things are not attested to by Scripture. When is it appropriate to conclude that God did something miraculous? Roughly speaking, when 1) there is no plausible natural explanation, and 2) there is a positive reason to believe that God would be acting.

It might be helpful to consider if one is thinking about the general rule of the world around us, or if one is considering some special act that God may have done.

Arthur C Clark has a famous quote: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. So consider if God has a specific task he wants to accomplish, say turning water into wine, He may well be doing this though other methods that if we understood them would stand up to proper scientific analysis.

Think of electricity and magnetism. We use them today without a second thought. But if we were to go back in time and communicate at long distances with hand-held radios, people would consider it "miraculous."

KT

Mercy Shown · Jun 22, 2024

Vambram said:
Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge? - Apologetics Press

Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge?

apologeticspress.org

When a naturalist encounters a scientific challenge he cannot explain naturally, he cannot claim a supernatural explanation to his problem without contradicting his belief in naturalism. Having examined sufficient evidence to be a supernaturalist, a biblical creationist does have the option of claiming a supernatural explanation, but when is it appropriate to do so?

Of course, the most obvious time that it is appropriate to say “God did it” as a response to a proposed scientific difficulty with Creation is when the Bible explicitly says He did something. From time to time, however, we might come across a new quibble, about which Scripture is silent, and to which we cannot immediately give a reasonable answer. It would be easy to respond to such quibbles by simply saying “God did it” as our answer to the problem. Such an answer, however, becomes a form of the “God of the Gaps” argument, where God is inserted to solve a problem (or as proof that God must exist in order for the problem to be solved).

Evolution is the most enormous gap in biological science, and it is essentially a black box. Simply saying "given enough time" to fill in all of its Swiss Cheese holes is just as egregious as saying God did it. Why can't people just say, "At this point, we don't know?"

o_mlly · Jun 22, 2024

Mercy Shown said:
Evolution is the most enormous gap in biological science, and it is essentially a black box. Simply saying "given enough time" to fill in all of its Swiss Cheese holes is just as egregious as saying God did it. Why can't people just say, "At this point, we don't know?"

Instead of acknowledging their ignorance, the materialists invent sciency words like, "emergent" or "brute fact" to pretend to explain what they cannot explain.

AlexB23 · Jun 22, 2024

Stephen Andrew said:
Peace to all,

Thanks to all and great information!

To me, logic has more power that the finite sciences understanding in math, chemistry and physics, etc. The state of eternity as unfailing is with the removal of any chance of failure now and for the future as man's finite understanding is limited in the finite mind. In logic, the logic of the structure or pattern of the image is manifested by the choice of the chosen spirit as regenerated, glorified, "changed." Logically, We know AB+ type of Body fluid is the universal acceptor for The Body and it is said with high confidence that this type matches the image or pattern or "type" of The Creator. Logically, to know like God with His Spirit Choice, will manifest eternity as incorruptible and immortal and glorified as God already is. This is to me the logical will of the Father to transfigure the created image into The Creator, God, The Father. Choice was given to Adam and Eve to create love, and through the New Adam, love is fulfilled in faith and morality in Him and through Him and to Him.

To me, this is the logic of the Works of The Divine Being, from the beginning.

God created love through the Power of the Spirit, and gave love freely through His Son in union with the Spirit will of The Father with all mankind as one in being with The Father and The Son, becoming glorified in The Body of The Christ.

Peace always,
Stephen

Amen to this, my fellow Catholic.

zippy2006 · Jun 22, 2024

KevinT said:
So consider if God has a specific task he wants to accomplish, say turning water into wine, He may well be doing this though other methods that if we understood them would stand up to proper scientific analysis.

This doesn't really change the answer. Whether God does it miraculously or whether God does it via a natural means that we do not understand, either way it was God who did it and we have warrant to conclude this. Now this means that spiritual beings or intelligent humans will be able to impersonate God by feigning a miracle, and this is true. At this point theologians have distinguished different grades of miracles, but the "roughly speaking" answer still holds, roughly speaking. I don't think there is a better simple answer, given that there is no surefire way to distinguish, say, every angelic miracle from every divine miracle.

Is It Ever Appropriate to Say “God Did It” in Response to a Scientific Challenge?

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