Unitarian Universalist Church in Albuquerque Appropriates Eastern Orthodox Cross

The Liturgist · May 14, 2024

This really disturbs me, and I think it would disturb most traditional Christians, to see a central part of the iconography of their tradition abused by Unitarian Universalists in order to make a statement about religious equivalence and syncretism.

I have half a mind to send them a letter of complaint and CC every Eastern Orthodox parish priest in Albuquerque, who might be unaware of it. Of course, they are also abusing all forms of the Cross insofar as the UUA as a denomination is almost entirely apostate, and is entirely heterodox, which is why Unitarian Universalists are not considered Christians on CF.com, very properly, I might add.

So naturally this sort of thing is extremely annoying.

Philip_B · May 14, 2024

I am not sure why they are displaying this symbol

The Liturgist · May 14, 2024

Philip_B said:
View attachment 347812

I am not sure why they are displaying this symbol

It looks like a Trinitarian trefoil.

Philip_B · May 14, 2024

The Liturgist said:
It looks like a Trinitarian trefoil.

I am not sure what else it would be,and I am not sure why a unitarian chur h would use it.

chevyontheriver · May 14, 2024

Philip_B said:
I am not sure what else it would be,and I am not sure why a unitarian chur h would use it.

Could they have accidentally discovered something true? Could they be the first UU congregation to embrace Orthodoxy?

Probably not, but then why appropriate such symbols?

chevyontheriver · May 14, 2024

The Liturgist said:
This really disturbs me, and I think it would disturb most traditional Christians, to see a central part of the iconography of their tradition abused by Unitarian Universalists in order to make a statement about religious equivalence and syncretism.

I have half a mind to send them a letter of complaint and CC every Eastern Orthodox parish priest in Albuquerque, who might be unaware of it. Of course, they are also abusing all forms of the Cross insofar as the UUA as a denomination is almost entirely apostate, and is entirely heterodox, which is why Unitarian Universalists are not considered Christians on CF.com, very properly, I might add.

So naturally this sort of thing is extremely annoying.

I listened to her speak and … yuck. It is appropriation. Tell them you aren’t the only one objecting to it.

AlexB23 · May 14, 2024

The Liturgist said:
It looks like a Trinitarian trefoil.

It also looks like a cool logo for a sci-fi alien species that could be emblazoned on the side of a starship.

But yeah, appropriation is not okay.

PloverWing · May 14, 2024

Philip_B said:
View attachment 347812

I am not sure why they are displaying this symbol

I do appreciate the irony there.

The Liturgist · May 14, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
I listened to her speak and … yuck. It is appropriation. Tell them you aren’t the only one objecting to it.

Indeed, that’s why I tagged this thread, among other things, “disgusting heretics,” because regular heretics just doesn’t seem to cut the mustard as far as these wackos are concerned. Actually come to think of it I wish I had tagged it wackos as well…that would seem apt. Admittedly uncharitable, but so are the invectives UUAs hurl at bona fide Christians.

dzheremi · May 18, 2024

Ughhh. Get out of my former home-city, you bunch of syncretist weirdos. I see they are displaying the ankh/crux ansata, as well. I suppose they are at least catholic in terms of who they offend.

The Liturgist · May 18, 2024

dzheremi said:
Ughhh. Get out of my former home-city, you bunch of syncretist weirdos. I see they are displaying the ankh/crux ansata, as well. I suppose they are at least catholic in terms of who they offend.

chevyontheriver said:
I listened to her speak and … yuck. It is appropriation. Tell them you aren’t the only one objecting to it.

So do you think I should write them a letter of complaint? Also if anyone wanted to co-sign or perhaps forward it to churches from their denomination or otherwise communicate with those churches to see if they would like the fake occult cross, the Eastern Orthodox cross and other denomination-specific symbols, such as the Trinitarian trefoil, removed, I would be open to that.

dzheremi · May 18, 2024

I personally wouldn't bother, since if strongly-worded letters were able to get heretics to reform themselves, then presumably Nestorius would've listened to St. Cyril and come back to the Church with a spirit of repentance. But of course it is each person's duty to act in accordance with their conscience, so if you feel it would be helpful, go for it.

The Liturgist · May 18, 2024

dzheremi said:
I personally wouldn't bother, since if strongly-worded letters were able to get heretics to reform themselves, then presumably Nestorius would've listened to St. Cyril and come back to the Church with a spirit of repentance. But of course it is each person's duty to act in accordance with their conscience, so if you feel it would be helpful, go for it.

Ultimately I think what I will do is call a few of the Eastern Orthodox priests in Albuquerque and ask them how they would feel about me writing a letter, in my own name. Perhaps one of them will want to send the letter himself.

MarkRohfrietsch · Jun 14, 2024

The Liturgist said:
This really disturbs me, and I think it would disturb most traditional Christians, to see a central part of the iconography of their tradition abused by Unitarian Universalists in order to make a statement about religious equivalence and syncretism.

I have half a mind to send them a letter of complaint and CC every Eastern Orthodox parish priest in Albuquerque, who might be unaware of it. Of course, they are also abusing all forms of the Cross insofar as the UUA as a denomination is almost entirely apostate, and is entirely heterodox, which is why Unitarian Universalists are not considered Christians on CF.com, very properly, I might add.

So naturally this sort of thing is extremely annoying.

A true mess indeed. BTW, this is no Church by definition of the three Ecumenical creeds.

The Liturgist · Jun 23, 2024

MarkRohfrietsch said:
A true mess indeed. BTW, this is no Church by definition of the three Ecumenical creeds.

Indeed, it is a conventicle, an improper, schismatic and heretical assembly according to the ecumenical councils. Any Christian who prays with heretics such as Unitarians can be excommunicated for that offense.

Xeno.of.athens · Jun 25, 2024

The Liturgist said:
This really disturbs me

Why do they listen to a sermon, and she does call it a sermon, if they are so free-thought oriented? It's very religious, very non-liturgical Christian like, but they've removed God and put something in his place yet kept the form of gathering to hear a sermon and sing a hymn. Very strange, like people who lost God, came to disrespect him, but want to have the form of religion in their life.

As I listened to her sermon, she made a good number of false statements that are common tropes among the ill-informed anti-religious populace, told a number of superficial stories that mix conspiracy theories with legendary anti-Christian tales. She spoke a little like the people who claim that Christmas is really the worship of Horace, or some other deity of ancient paganism. Then she appropriates a number of famous authors (probably unjustifiably). All in all, her presentation is very superficial silly stuff. And, of course, she lays claim to every 'good' thing she can think of as the product of little threads of UU proto belief all through history. What a horribly distorted account she gives. No wonder she wants to have the symbols of every religion she can think of on her "mural" - the wall behind her. It's a bad example of unitarian Universalism, I suspect.

As an aside, it seems a little symbolic that the flowers before her pulpit are the kind used in funerals. They are Calla lilies.

The Liturgist · Jun 25, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
Why do they listen to a sermon, and she does call it a sermon, if they are so free-thought oriented? It's very religious, very non-liturgical Christian like, but they've removed God and put something in his place yet kept the form of gathering to hear a sermon and sing a hymn. Very strange, like people who lost God, came to disrespect him, but want to have the form of religion in their life.

As I listened to her sermon, she made a good number of false statements that are common tropes among the ill-informed anti-religious populace, told a number of superficial stories that mix conspiracy theories with legendary anti-Christian tales. She spoke a little like the people who claim that Christmas is really the worship of Horace, or some other deity of ancient paganism. Then she appropriates a number of famous authors (probably unjustifiably). All in all, her presentation is very superficial silly stuff. And, of course, she lays claim to every 'good' thing she can think of as the product of little threads of UU proto belief all through history. What a horribly distorted account she gives. No wonder she wants to have the symbols of every religion she can think of on her "mural" - the wall behind her. It's a bad example of unitarian Universalism, I suspect.

As an aside, it seems a little symbolic that the flowers before her pulpit are the kind used in funerals.

Easter lillies, but they are also widely used on Pascha as the name implies, as symbols of the resurrection.

Xeno.of.athens · Jun 26, 2024

The Liturgist said:
Easter lillies

Yes, a reference to Easter 1916 in Dublin, Ireland; at that time there was a massacre, and the Calla Lily became the symbol for it.

The Liturgist · Jun 26, 2024

Xeno.of.athens said:
Yes, a reference to Easter 1916 in Dublin, Ireland; at that time there was a massacre, and the Calla Lily became the symbol for it.

I had never heard that connection, it makes sense, but the Easter lilly in the US and elsewhere long predates the 1916 Rising. If you visit any church in the US, including the Eastern Orthodox, on Pascha, you will see these. There is also a mention of them in the Christian-patriotic song dating from the Civil War (Unionist side), the Battle Hymn of the Republic, which has some peculiar verses which in my recording by the USAF band, when the female African American airman from the “Singing Sergeants” singing it sang them emphatically, nonetheless the orchestra itself became noticeably louder as if to try to mitigate the more specifically Christian fourth stanza, while omittimg the second and third stanza.

The fourth stanza is:

Inthe beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,[15]
While God is marching on.

The third line in the above is a reference to abolitionist sentiment leading up to the Civil War.

So there is more obscure American state religion than you doubtless were expecting, but alas, this is an early example of the meaning of the Easter Lilly here at least. Used at Easter and at Christian funerals (not Jewish ones).

The Liturgist · Jun 28, 2024

Actually @Xeno.of.athens and @MarkRohfrietsch here is the exact recording I mentioned:

The full lyrics including the omitted portions are:

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword:
His truth is marching on.

(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps,
They have builded Him an altar in the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence by the dim and flaring lamps:
His day is marching on.

(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal";
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.

(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment-seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! Be jubilant, my feet!
Our God is marching on.

(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me.
As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free,[15]
While God is marching on.

(Chorus)
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Glory, glory, hallelujah!
Our God is marching on.

Obviously this would be for some highly controversial as it has a theological-eschatological perspective, but it has informed the American consciousness, for example, one can see its applicanility to our interventions in WWI and WWII.

I would liken the Battle Hymn of the Republic to the even more controversial English patriotic hymn Jerusalem , which I am sure you are familiar with.

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