Ai vs Christian theology

Stephen3141 said:

I don't think that you understand the meaning of "justice".
It does not mean an "equal" outcome.

"Equitable", does not mean "equal".

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I think you don't understand the meaning of "different concept of justice."

Do you also think the concept of "truth" is the same everywhere?

seeker2122 said:

If AI is going to be accepted everywhere, then what about church? Will you accept one day an AI preacher?
An AI Bible study teacher? AI music? AI worship team? Ultimately, we know that AI does not have the soul God
gave each of us. AI cannot worship or speak with heart intentions and faith as these concepts are still foreign to AI,
but if we keep going down this path, there will eventually be head on collision between AI and humans in relation
to Christian theology. Can there ever be such a thing as an AI Christian?

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God can use it. But a live minister can get to know people in a group and minister what they need while also receiving ministry from them. This is included in our Father's family way of sharing with one another. And we grow with each other, discovering how we are maturing with each other. This would take quite some technological development for an AI device to have prayerful feedback from God about what to preach, and feedback from the members of the group, and sharing in mutual prayer and teachings and warning one another > Colossians 3:17 > and the AI device duplicating observing our maturing while it shows maturing in Jesus.

I don't think so; plus why pay for it? The development could cost millions of dollars, and maybe just one device and app could cost . . . enough to close our churches, financially.

Estrid said:

What is this discernment?

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"And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment." (Philippians 1:9)

From this scripture, I would say discernment includes how God gives us sense for knowing what is good, while we are living in His love and guiding. In His love we discern what is the good way to love each person, how to see each person the way love has us seeing.

This comes with growing in Jesus, not only knowing the Bible, though knowledge of the scriptures certainly is used by God.

In His love we have "senses" . . . not only knowledge >

"But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." (Hebrews 5:14)

So, yes with God we can discern what is good and not good, all the time . . . as we submit to Him and are personally guided, all the time . . . more and better as we grow in Jesus and how He in us shares with us how is submissive to our Father.

"Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

I see how this scripture confirms that at all times we need to be submissive to God, so that we can test "all" the things what come our way and all our decisions, and all our thoughts and feelings and emotions. As we grow in His love, we discover God doing this with us >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

So . . . applying this to the AI question . . . do you think a human can produce AI which has us discerning "all things" . . . including within us? I do not think a device will come out which can tell what we are thinking and which emotions to accept, and which to put away from us.

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice." (Ephesians 4:31)

In order to produce an AI device app which tells you to do this and has us doing this, there would need to be producers who believe in this and who would develop this into the AI device and app. And there are people claiming the Bible who do not counsel and minister for us to put away wrong feelings and emotions . . . the way God does this with us, of course . . . as is possible with God, and commanded. God is committed to this, but a variety of people either deny this or leave this out or try to do some sort of substitute way of healing.

Discernment, then, includes how God's love in us takes care of us.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment." (in 1 John 4:18)

Love discerns fear and casts it out. Likewise, this goes for unforgiveness and other anti-love things in us. And God in us has us more and more sensing these things and not accepting them and casting them out.

And our discernment has us sensing God Himself so we are always submitting to how He rules us in His peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

We grow together in this, which is a process deeper than words alone, in personal sharing with God in us and with each other as family > "in one body".

Estrid said:

Yep, good reason for the inquisition too.

The way so many can use religion to
approve atrocities is a problem few theists
seem concerned about.

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Those who use religion to approve atrocities are not truly following Christ: that is, if it's Christians doing it. That goes for the Vatican inquisition of the dark ages, or Protestants and Catholics fighting in Ireland, or the various other abuses.

These evils (for that is what they are) do not negate the core of Holy Bible which is Christ came to save us from sin, and to receive Him is the only way to salvation and eternal life. I do NOT mean the despicable ways that some so called "Christians" used to "convert" Native Americans either, for at times it seemed a genocide and a Holocaust. Anything other than the pure preaching of the Gospel and leaving it with the hearer to respond or not, is not the true Gospel.
We may convince by preaching the Word: we are NOT called to blackmail, extort, or threaten with physical harm, or to take away food or medicines, etc.

Jesus is all about a relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit, not religion. He alone can save thy soul: all other ways lead to hell, which will not be very pretty, and in fact, shall be intolerable, though whosoever goes there must tolerates its indescribable darkness and torment. But that is how sin must be destroyed, and all have sinned. Jesus however offers a way out, a rescue mission from the death of your soul that would be inevitable without Him. And He is calling all who are still in unbelief, that they might have faith and believe on Him to eternal life.

Again, all sorts of comments are appearing in this thread, that do not
use a rigorous (Computer Science) definition of artificial intelligence.

Computerized search engines, are not artificial intelligence.
Software driven applications, replacing human workers, is not artificial intelligence.
Sublogical pattern detection software, is at best, the weakest form of AI. And
these applications cannot begin to approach Computer Sciences's definition
of rigorous artificial intelligence.

There's all sorts of ungrounded speculation in this thread, that is not
addressing the formal definition of artificial intelligence.

What is the use of speculation, that uses concepts that are undefined,
or amateurishly defined?

Stephen3141 said:

Again, all sorts of comments are appearing in this thread, that do not
use a rigorous (Computer Science) definition of artificial intelligence.

Computerized search engines, are not artificial intelligence.
Software driven applications, replacing human workers, is not artificial intelligence.
Sublogical pattern detection software, is at best, the weakest form of AI. And
these applications cannot begin to approach Computer Sciences's definition
of rigorous artificial intelligence.

There's all sorts of ungrounded speculation in this thread, that is not
addressing the formal definition of artificial intelligence.

What is the use of speculation, that uses concepts that are undefined,
or amateurishly defined?

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Because the people who are marketing it do, and whether what they are marketing is accurately characterized as "AI," it still has effects on society that need to be discussed.

We all know that nobody is actually storing electronic data in an airborne mass of water vapor, but we still speak of storing data in a "cloud" because that's the term that's marketed.

Neogaia777 said:

But all can only ever go, only according to the way that it has already been written for each one already, etc.

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Then that eliminates free will. And that means God is going to send me to Hell for something I have no control over.

I don't see how anyone can be okay with this.

Kylie said:

Then that eliminates free will. And that means God is going to send me to Hell for something I have no control over.

I don't see how anyone can be okay with this.

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No one knows where your going for sure or not (except God already), and anyone who tries to tell you that for sure is a big fat liar personally, etc

I told you reasons matter, and I'm betting there are more than a few for why you are currently right now not believing, etc.

God Bless.

Neogaia777 said:

No one knows where your going for sure or not (except God already), and anyone who tries to tell you that for sure is a big fat liar personally, etc

I told you reasons matter, and I'm betting there are more than a few for why you are currently right now not believing, etc.

God Bless.

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This sounds like something you tell yourself in order to justify a position that ultimately has zero supporting evidence.

Kylie said:

This sounds like something you tell yourself in order to justify a position that ultimately has zero supporting evidence.

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God is just, and that's all the supporting evidence I need.

And I know that I know that I know, that His code of justice, or more than very, very fair, true just judgement, far, far exceeds my own, etc.

And that's all the evidence I need, etc.

God Bless.

Neogaia777 said:

God is just, and that's all the supporting evidence I need.

And I know that I know that I know, that His code of justice, or more than very, very fair, true just judgement, far, far exceeds my own, etc.

And that's all the evidence I need, etc.

God Bless.

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There are people who just KNOW that the Earth is flat. There are people who just KNOW that vaccines cause autism.

So I'm sure you'll understand that you claiming to KNOW something is not going to be very convincing to me.

What would convince me is some testable evidence.

Kylie said:

There are people who just KNOW that the Earth is flat. There are people who just KNOW that vaccines cause autism.

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Yeah, well, I'm not one of them.

God Bless.

Neogaia777 said:

Yeah, well, I'm not one of them.

God Bless.

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I think you missed my point.

If a person says, "I just know X is true," then that just shows they are convinced. It doesn't mean they are right.

The person who says, "I just know that the Earth is flat," can still be mistaken. The person who says, "I just know that vaccines cause autism," can still be mistaken.

And in the same way, the person who says, "I just know that God is real," can be just as mistaken. That's why I don't care about assertions. I care about evidence. And if you make any assertions about the nature of God and don't provide any evidence to support those assertions, then you shouldn't expect me to believe them.

Kylie said:

I think you missed my point.

If a person says, "I just know X is true," then that just shows they are convinced. It doesn't mean they are right.

The person who says, "I just know that the Earth is flat," can still be mistaken. The person who says, "I just know that vaccines cause autism," can still be mistaken.

And in the same way, the person who says, "I just know that God is real," can be just as mistaken. That's why I don't care about assertions. I care about evidence. And if you make any assertions about the nature of God and don't provide any evidence to support those assertions, then you shouldn't expect me to believe them.

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I feel I know that if God is real (which I believe He is) then He is also just, and is a lot more just than I am, etc.

But you are right in the fact that this is all just a belief I hold, and so you don't necessarily have to believe it, etc.

So, I don't know what more you are wanting from me at this point, so I'm just going to leave it there, or leave it at that, ok.

I am sorry that you don't right now think there us enough sufficient evidence to believe in Him right now currently, because there is not much I can do about that, unless you want me to tell you how I came to believe in him for sure, which could take much more writing than I am right now doing here, etc. And you probably still wouldn't believe me/it/Him anyway regardless, because of a lot of it is probably subjective, and comes from my own personal experiences, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.

Kylie said:

I think you missed my point.

If a person says, "I just know X is true," then that just shows they are convinced. It doesn't mean they are right.

The person who says, "I just know that the Earth is flat," can still be mistaken. The person who says, "I just know that vaccines cause autism," can still be mistaken.

And in the same way, the person who says, "I just know that God is real," can be just as mistaken. That's why I don't care about assertions. I care about evidence. And if you make any assertions about the nature of God and don't provide any evidence to support those assertions, then you shouldn't expect me to believe them.

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If any of you who don't right now believe, are even in the least little bit heartbroken by that in your innermost being (or spirit) right now secretly about that maybe, even in the least little bit, etc, then I also believe there is still hope for you yet, etc.

And I also fully believe God will most definitely take that all fully into account in His judging or judgements of you should you die in that state, etc.

God Bless.

There are some justifiable reasons maybe for people not believing in God, and maybe some not so justifiable ones, or completely unjustifiable ones for not believing in God completely, etc.

The former God might take into account and/or consider in His judgement or judging of you, but the latter He will not, etc.

One of what might be one of the more justifiable ones, is just simply believing that there is just not enough evidence for you to be believing, etc. But that reason has to be 100% absolutely true or pure, or it will get you absolutely nowhere in God's judging, etc.

But one of the much more totally unjustifiable ones, is because you have a bias because of all the so-called religious people that you run into, and/or are seeing, and that is your primary reason for not believing, etc.

Because that last one will get you absolutely nowhere with God in His judging ever completely, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.

Another probably much more justifiable one might be because you don't believe in the good book or whatever, because your mind is just too logical, and because of that, you just can't bring yourself to believing in it, etc. Or also in believing that any kind of miracles, or supernatural acts, or whatever, are ever possible, or could ever be possible completely, etc.

One again though, these reasons have to be 100% pure, or they will get you absolutely nowhere with God completely, etc.

And once again also though, reasons having anything to do with any kind of bias or prejudice because of His people, etc, will get you absolutely nowhere with God completely, etc.

God Bless.

Neogaia777 said:

Another probably much more justifiable one might be because you don't believe in the good book or whatever, because your mind is just too logical, and because of that, you just can't bring yourself to believing in it, etc. Or also in believing that any kind of miracles, or supernatural acts, or whatever, are ever possible, or could ever be possible completely, etc.

One again though, these reasons have to be 100% pure, or they will get you absolutely nowhere with God completely, etc.

And once again also though, reasons having anything to do with any kind of bias or prejudice because of His people, etc, will get you absolutely nowhere with God completely, etc.

God Bless.

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I would also like to add that this also includes any bias and/or prejudice in what people have done in the name of God or religion over the years, etc.

Any kind of reasons having anything to do at all with religious people past or present over the years, will all be summarily thrown out/rejected by Him, etc.

If you haven't learned that all people are fallen/evil/wicked/imperfect/not God by now, or over the years, etc, then you still have a very, very long way to go in knowing anything at all about God or anything over the years, etc.

God Bless.

Tropical Wilds said:

If the Internet has proven anything, even with free and direct access to Google, there are plenty of people who don’t use it and are happy to remain ignorant.

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One might equally say that there are plenty of people who do use it indiscriminately and thereby become ignorant.

Neogaia777 said:

I feel I know that if God is real (which I believe He is) then He is also just, and is a lot more just than I am, etc.

But you are right in the fact that this is all just a belief I hold, and so you don't necessarily have to believe it, etc.

So, I don't know what more you are wanting from me at this point, so I'm just going to leave it there, or leave it at that, ok.

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But that still just relies on your subjective feelings.

Other people have equal certainty that some other deity is the correct one. They feel it just as strongly as you. And you would say that they are wrong. So we can conclude that strong feelings alone aren't enough to make something true. And by that logic, I must conclude that the strength of your feelings isn't enough to show me that your beliefs are true.

Neogaia777 said:

I am sorry that you don't right now think there us enough sufficient evidence to believe in Him right now currently, because there is not much I can do about that, unless you want me to tell you how I came to believe in him for sure, which could take much more writing than I am right now doing here, etc. And you probably still wouldn't believe me/it/Him anyway regardless, because of a lot of it is probably subjective, and comes from my own personal experiences, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.

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Unless you came to believe in God through some objective and testable was, then I'm afraid that your own story of conversion to Christianity will not convince me.

Neogaia777 said:

If any of you who don't right now believe, are even in the least little bit heartbroken by that in your innermost being (or spirit) right now secretly about that maybe, even in the least little bit, etc, then I also believe there is still hope for you yet, etc.

And I also fully believe God will most definitely take that all fully into account in His judging or judgements of you should you die in that state, etc.

God Bless.

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Why would I be heartbroken about not believing in a God I don't believe in?

Neogaia777 said:

There are some justifiable reasons maybe for people not believing in God, and maybe some not so justifiable ones, or completely unjustifiable ones for not believing in God completely, etc.

The former God might take into account and/or consider in His judgement or judging of you, but the latter He will not, etc.

One of what might be one of the more justifiable ones, is just simply believing that there is just not enough evidence for you to be believing, etc. But that reason has to be 100% absolutely true or pure, or it will get you absolutely nowhere in God's judging, etc.

But one of the much more totally unjustifiable ones, is because you have a bias because of all the so-called religious people that you run into, and/or are seeing, and that is your primary reason for not believing, etc.

Because that last one will get you absolutely nowhere with God in His judging ever completely, etc.

Take Care/God Bless.

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FGor me it's that there is not enough evidence. I'd even say there is no evidence at all that doesn't depend on some logical fallacy.

Neogaia777 said:

Another probably much more justifiable one might be because you don't believe in the good book or whatever, because your mind is just too logical, and because of that, you just can't bring yourself to believing in it, etc. Or also in believing that any kind of miracles, or supernatural acts, or whatever, are ever possible, or could ever be possible completely, etc.

One again though, these reasons have to be 100% pure, or they will get you absolutely nowhere with God completely, etc.

And once again also though, reasons having anything to do with any kind of bias or prejudice because of His people, etc, will get you absolutely nowhere with God completely, etc.

God Bless.

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Logic doesn't mean rejecting miracles. It means rejecting logical fallacies, such as accepting something as truth when there is insufficient evidence to do so.

Neogaia777 said:

I would also like to add that this also includes any bias and/or prejudice in what people have done in the name of God or religion over the years, etc.

Any kind of reasons having anything to do at all with religious people past or present over the years, will all be summarily thrown out/rejected by Him, etc.

If you haven't learned that all people are fallen/evil/wicked/imperfect/not God by now, or over the years, etc, then you still have a very, very long way to go in knowing anything at all about God or anything over the years, etc.

God Bless.

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I've found religious people of all faiths to be a widely varied bunch. You get some people who are lovely and wonderful, and others who are complete manure. Their religious faith really doesn't make much of a difference.

Kylie said:

But that still just relies on your subjective feelings.

Other people have equal certainty that some other deity is the correct one. They feel it just as strongly as you. And you would say that they are wrong. So we can conclude that strong feelings alone aren't enough to make something true. And by that logic, I must conclude that the strength of your feelings isn't enough to show me that your beliefs are true.

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Why would you think that I'm here to show you, or try to convince you that my beliefs are true?

Kylie said:

Unless you came to believe in God through some objective and testable was, then I'm afraid that your own story of conversion to Christianity will not convince me.

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Again, I'm not trying to convince you, as that is no one's job but God's, all any believer can do is expose you to the gospel, and the rest is entirely up to you and God from there.

And as far as logic goes, or objective evidence goes, there has been way more than enough of that in my own life/knowledge/personal experiences, etc, to convince me, etc, but maybe just only me maybe, etc.

And if you want me to try and tell you about that/those, or what those are, then just ask me, and I'll do my best to try to provide those, if it will help, ok.

Kylie said:

Why would I be heartbroken about not believing in a God I don't believe in?

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It was just a thought, etc.

Kylie said:

For me it's that there is not enough evidence. I'd even say there is no evidence at all that doesn't depend on some logical fallacy.

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Well, for your sake, I hope you are being entirely honest there, or that you are being 100% pure in that there, etc.

Kylie said:

Logic doesn't mean rejecting miracles. It means rejecting logical fallacies, such as accepting something as truth when there is insufficient evidence to do so.

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Again, I hope your knowledge/beliefs are pure in that, etc.

Kylie said:

I've found religious people of all faiths to be a widely varied bunch. You get some people who are lovely and wonderful, and others who are complete manure. Their religious faith really doesn't make much of a difference.

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Just don't let that cloud your judgement.

Take Care/God Bless.