Trump is prepared to betray America's allies

Whyayeman · Feb 11, 2024

Donald Trump has said he would "encourage" Russia to attack any Nato member that fails to pay its bills as part of the Western military alliance.

Trump says he would 'encourage' Russia to attack Nato allies who do not pay their bills

The US presidential hopeful says he would not protect any country failing to pay its bills.

www.bbc.co.uk

The implications of this declaration are profound. In an apparently casual way he has asserted that as president he would abandon his allies, indeed, take sides against them with Russia.

This has the potential to destroy the trust Nato allies have in their strongest partner and will do serious damage to all America's alliances round the world.

HTacianas · Feb 11, 2024

Whyayeman said:
Donald Trump has said he would "encourage" Russia to attack any Nato member that fails to pay its bills as part of the Western military alliance.

Trump says he would 'encourage' Russia to attack Nato allies who do not pay their bills

The US presidential hopeful says he would not protect any country failing to pay its bills.

www.bbc.co.uk

The implications of this declaration are profound. In an apparently casual way he has asserted that as president he would abandon his allies, indeed, take sides against them with Russia.

This has the potential to destroy the trust Nato allies have in their strongest partner and will do serious damage to all America's alliances round the world.

More likely it will have the same effect on NATO as Trump did when he was President. All the other NATO nations will begin living up to their part of the agreement. Something only Trump has ever held them to.

GreatLakes4Ever · Feb 11, 2024

Whyayeman said:
Donald Trump has said he would "encourage" Russia to attack any Nato member that fails to pay its bills as part of the Western military alliance.

Trump says he would 'encourage' Russia to attack Nato allies who do not pay their bills

The US presidential hopeful says he would not protect any country failing to pay its bills.

www.bbc.co.uk

The implications of this declaration are profound. In an apparently casual way he has asserted that as president he would abandon his allies, indeed, take sides against them with Russia.

This has the potential to destroy the trust Nato allies have in their strongest partner and will do serious damage to all America's alliances round the world.

Pay your bills or I’ll have American blood spilt is a hell of an extortion. I’d hope those who are thinking about voting for Trump would realize it’s their own sons and daughters heads who would be at risk in this insane gambit but they probably aren’t. I’d just hope it would only be Trump supporters and their families killed because of this. Others shouldn’t have to die due to their misguided choices.

durangodawood · Feb 11, 2024

HTacianas said:
More likely it will have the same effect on NATO as Trump did when he was President. All the other NATO nations will begin living up to their part of the agreement. Something only Trump has ever held them to.

Its one thing to threaten to pull out of NATO.

But to say youd encourage the invasion of long time US allies by a dictatorial nuclear armed power shows vile disregard for longstanding friendships and even for human liberty.

trophy33 · Feb 11, 2024

HTacianas said:
More likely it will have the same effect on NATO as Trump did when he was President. All the other NATO nations will begin living up to their part of the agreement. Something only Trump has ever held them to.

I think that it has more to do with the war on the borders of the EU than with Trump.

Whyayeman · Feb 11, 2024

myst33 said:
I think that it has more to do with the war on the borders of the EU than with Trump.

It has everything to do with Trump. It is now his declared policy to encourage Putin to attack Nato allies. It is ignorant and dangerous.

You can be sure that all national governments with treaty agreements with USA will be considering their options.

trophy33 · Feb 11, 2024

Whyayeman said:
It has everything to do with Trump. It is now his declared policy to encourage Putin to attack Nato allies. It is ignorant and dangerous.

You can be sure that all national governments with treaty agreements with USA will be considering their options.

When I hear local EU politicians to explain why the unusually high spending on military, Trump never comes up, but always the war near the borders.

Laodicean60 · Feb 11, 2024

Whyayeman said:
The implications of this declaration are profound. In an apparently casual way he has asserted that as president he would abandon his allies, indeed, take sides against them with Russia.

This has the potential to destroy the trust Nato allies have in their strongest partner and will do serious damage to all America's alliances round the world.

If said this is a stupid comment. Like others here have mentioned Trump did see the writing on the wall and ordered NATO to increase their military budget which they are scrambling to do now. I was tired of other NATO countries riding our coat tales with my tax dollars to be the world police. Look at the Red Sea fiasco this affects all Western country's economies but who is doing the heavy lifting? How many NATO servicemen are dying in the Middle East? Why do we have to be the top provider of help to Ukraine when the money we are spending is borrowed money? The world the boomers are leaving our kids and grandkids.

Larniavc · Feb 11, 2024

HTacianas said:
More likely it will have the same effect on NATO as Trump did when he was President. All the other NATO nations will begin living up to their part of the agreement. Something only Trump has ever held them to.

Nah. Trump has form for betraying people who trusted him.

Trump claims Kurds 'no angels' as he boasts of his own 'brilliant' strategy

President’s assertion undercuts US mission to Turkey aimed at urging Erdoğan to halt offensive

www.theguardian.com

And all the people he refused to pay for services rendered.

Report: Trump has refused to pay hundreds of workers

Trump said he won’t pay contractors who do a bad job in full.

thehill.com

I confidently assert that Mr Trump has never acted in an honourable, let alone altruistic way (despite his assertions of devout Christianity).

Whyayeman · Feb 11, 2024

Laodicean60 said:
Trump [...] ordered NATO to increase their military budget

Maybe Trump and his supporters have not realised that American governments cannot order other countries to obey them.

Nato is an alliance, not America's empire.

JSRG · Feb 11, 2024

Whyayeman said:
It has everything to do with Trump. It is now his declared policy to encourage Putin to attack Nato allies. It is ignorant and dangerous.

You can be sure that all national governments with treaty agreements with USA will be considering their options.

Trump has a lot of "declared policies" that he mentions once, the media makes a huge deal about, and then Trump never mentions it again and everyone forgets about it. Remember when he declared he was going to revoke birthright citizenship? Tons of attention, lots of arguments about whether he could do it, and then it was all forgotten because he never did anything about it or even mentioned it again.

It's also interesting that you mention governments with treaty agreements will be considering their options. But Trump's point here, is that other countries aren't honoring their agreements. Other NATO members aren't spending the amount they're supposed to into defense, instead just relying on other countries--mostly the US--to foot the bill for them. That's Trump's point, if they're not performing their treaty agreements, why should the US be doing that for them? It's of course made in his characteristically dumb and over the top way, but there's a valid point beneath it.

RocksInMyHead · Feb 11, 2024

JSRG said:
Trump has a lot of "declared policies" that he mentions once, the media makes a huge deal about, and then Trump never mentions it again and everyone forgets about it. Remember when he declared he was going to revoke birthright citizenship? Tons of attention, lots of arguments about whether he could do it, and then it was all forgotten because he never did anything about it or even mentioned it again.

True, but he does follow through (or at least tries to) on some of those declared policies (see the wall as an easy example), so ignoring them isn't really an option. I think he throws out ideas to test the waters - if the response among his base is strong enough, he'll try it.

JSRG said:
That's Trump's point, if they're not performing their treaty agreements, why should the US be doing that for them? It's of course made in his characteristically dumb and over the top way, but there's a valid point beneath it.

There's a fundamental difference between "We'll abandon our obligations because you have as well" and "We'll actively encourage a hostile country to attack you."

Whyayeman · Feb 11, 2024

RocksInMyHead said:
True, but he does follow through (or at least tries to) on some of those declared policies (see the wall as an easy example), so ignoring them isn't really an option. I think he throws out ideas to test the waters - if the response among his base is strong enough, he'll try it.

There's a fundamental difference between "We'll abandon our obligations because you have as well" and "We'll actively encourage a hostile country to attack you."

Allies cannot ignore what is in effect treachery. America has always been an uncertain ally of Europe. This threat must be taken seriously in Europe.

You can be sure that Putin is hugely encouraged by it.

Whyayeman · Feb 11, 2024

JSRG said:
Tons of attention, lots of arguments about whether he could do it, and then it was all forgotten because he never did anything about it or even mentioned it again.

True enough. America's allies cannot be sure of anything Trump says. Such uncertainty damages our alliance, security and endangers peoples.

wing2000 · Feb 11, 2024

...from the man who questioned his own intelligence agencies on the Helsinki podium with Vladimir Putin.

RocksInMyHead · Feb 11, 2024

Whyayeman said:
Allies cannot ignore what is in effect treachery. America has always been an uncertain ally of Europe. This threat must be taken seriously in Europe.

Yup. I have a feeling that the EU will develop into more of a military partnership to go along with the current economic one (it already includes some military cooperative initiatives). If Trump wins the presidency, this will happen sooner rather than later.

Whyayeman said:
You can be sure that Putin is hugely encouraged by it.

Anything that reduces US involvement in Europe will encourage Putin.

ThatRobGuy · Feb 11, 2024

durangodawood said:
Its one thing to threaten to pull out of NATO.

But to say youd encourage the invasion of long time US allies by a dictatorial nuclear armed power shows vile disregard for longstanding friendships and even for human liberty.

That's my problem with his comments...

It's one thing to say "if you don't pony up, don't expect us to save you or protect your shipping routes pro bono" (which is a sentiment I'd largely agree with as it relates to other first world countries), it's another thing to actively encourage a bad actor to go after someone else.

ThatRobGuy · Feb 11, 2024

Whyayeman said:
True enough. America's allies cannot be sure of anything Trump says. Such uncertainty damages our alliance, security and endangers peoples.

Like I alluded to in my previous post, the "America First" sentiments resonated with so many people because they were rooted in some very real (and quite frankly, reasonable) frustrations some people have...the problem is the crazy stuff Trump says to accompany it, and the fact that people are willing to overlook the craziness due to tunnel vision.

There's needs to be another vessel for that message.

For instance, if I was spending thousands of dollars a month out of pocket to mostly subsidize ADT home security systems for all of my neighbors on the block, and they subsequently thumbed their noses at me and talked down to me for "not buying the good healthcare plans for your kids like we do", it'd be a perfectly rational and understandable response to say "Wait a minute, one of the reasons you can afford to do that is because I'm covering some of your costs that you should really be covering...well guess what, you're on your own, I'm keeping my paycheck next month"

Where it would go off the rails is if I were to broadcast "Hey, I'm cancelling those ADT plans that I was covering for them, so if you're a burglar, go ahead and hit their house next month because there won't be any alarms going off"

Vambram · Feb 11, 2024

Isn't it ironic that during Trump's presidency that there was not any attacks by the Russian military upon any of our European allies? Isn't it ironic that Putin waited until after Biden became president, and after the completely botched withdrawal from Afghanistan under Biden's presidency that Putin invaded Ukraine?

Ignatius the Kiwi · Feb 11, 2024

Sounds entirely reasonable. Pay more if you want protection. Pay less if you don't. It will also have the added benefit of giving America less power over its subjects, I mean Allies.

Trump is prepared to betray America's allies

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"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."

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God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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