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Secret Plans to Attack NATO

Sheila Davis

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MForbes

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Germany supposedly has discovered Russia's plan to attack NATO in 2025 and is preparing for war.
Read the article. It’s a SCENERIO, not a real attack plan.
 
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Tuur

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The risk of going against NATO is that it could quickly turn nuclear. Be that as it may, the late Paul Harvey once pointed out that both the US and Canada had made plans in the past in case they needed to go to war with each other.
 
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The Barbarian

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Germany supposedly has discovered Russia's plan to attack NATO in 2025 and is preparing for war.
I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the Pentagon, there were preparations for a war with Luxembourg. With his army mauled by Ukraine, most of his modern armor gone, and evidence that Bradley troop transporters are capable of knocking out his newest tanks -

- the last thing Putin wants to do is pick a fight with larger and better-equipped nations, much less all of NATO.

Dictators eventually succumb to stupidity, because they surround themselves with people who never contradict anything they say. But Putin isn't crazy. At least not that crazy.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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I don't believe the Russians are stupid enough to expand the war. It makes no sense strategically. Russia doesn't need to attack NATO directly. All it needs is for NATO to divert resources in Nato's proxy Ukraine while grinding and wearing Ukraine down. That's hurts NATO more than attacking it directly.

I would expect NATO to directly get involved before I expect Russia to attack NATO directly.
 
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The Barbarian

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I don't believe the Russians are stupid enough to expand the war. It makes no sense strategically. Russia doesn't need to attack NATO directly. All it needs is for NATO to divert resources in Nato's proxy Ukraine while grinding and wearing Ukraine down. That's hurts NATO more than attacking it directly.
It works the other way. Russia is losing trained soldiers at a rate they are unable to replace them. So they are drafting cannon fodder out of prisons, just to hold the line. At the same time, Ukraine has worn down their supplies of weapons and ammunition to the point that they have to accept aid from N. Korea. And due to Putin's aggression, Finland and Sweden are joining NATO. If Putin had designed a plan to damage Russia and build up NATO, he couldn't have done a better job.

Why wouldn't NATO countries continue to supply Ukraine with weapons and ammunition to keep the meat grinder running? Weaker Russia means a more secure NATO.
I would expect NATO to directly get involved before I expect Russia to attack NATO directly.
So long as it keeps going as it has, they have no need to do so. Even if their goal was to destroy Russia, the present situation works great for them.
 
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The Barbarian

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Without their butts getting handed to them.
If they can't even beat Ukraine, how would they possibly beat Sweden or Germany, much less the combined forces of NATO?
 
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Laodicean60

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It works the other way. Russia is losing trained soldiers at a rate they are unable to replace them. So they are drafting cannon fodder out of prisons, just to hold the line.
I saw a video by Peter Zahan and he mentions a war of attrition which Russia prefers. He also mentions that Russia has always fought wars where they try to overwhelm you with numbers and don't care about loss of life, which I think is absolutely moronic. Germany just voted against sending Taurus missiles to Ukraine so apparently, not everyone is on board with this war.
 
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Laodicean60

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If they can't even beat Ukraine, how would they possibly beat Sweden or Germany, much less the combined forces of NATO?
I hope we don't decide to invade or it will be a nuclear holocaust time. I agree Putin may be delusional for the old USSR but he definitely isn't stupid.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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It works the other way. Russia is losing trained soldiers at a rate they are unable to replace them. So they are drafting cannon fodder out of prisons, just to hold the line. At the same time, Ukraine has worn down their supplies of weapons and ammunition to the point that they have to accept aid from N. Korea. And due to Putin's aggression, Finland and Sweden are joining NATO. If Putin had designed a plan to damage Russia and build up NATO, he couldn't have done a better job.

Why wouldn't NATO countries continue to supply Ukraine with weapons and ammunition to keep the meat grinder running? Weaker Russia means a more secure NATO.

So long as it keeps going as it has, they have no need to do so. Even if their goal was to destroy Russia, the present situation works great for

One reason not to continue supporting Ukraine is because NATO and the US are being stretched thin with multiple conflicts, a lack of military supply and personnel on their own side and that Ukraine will lose this war.

In any case Russia is not stupid enough to actually attack NATO. It would be NATO that actually decides to get involved and attack Russia.
 
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MForbes

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I hope we don't decide to invade or it will be a nuclear holocaust time. I agree Putin may be delusional for the old USSR but he definitely isn't stupid.
Any country that has decided to attack Russia on their own soil has lost and paid a heavy price. Napoleon and Hitler found that out. If Russia attacks NATO - I don’t believe they will - we’ll get sucked into war with them and we’d be best just to kick them out of the countries they’re occupying and then settle for “peace”.
 
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The Barbarian

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One reason not to continue supporting Ukraine is because NATO and the US are being stretched thin with multiple conflicts, a lack of military supply and personnel on their own side and that Ukraine will lose this war.
At this point, Russia is far more stretched. There is no way it could fight an effective war against NATO with the growing losses inflicted on them by the Ukrainians. At present, the best Russia can say is that they are managing to keep the Ukrainian advances to a minimum and that by emptying their prisons they can keep feeding troops into the meat grinder that the war has become for Russia.

For now, Russia can keep up the effort, by substituting obsolete weapons for the modern systems that the Ukrainians have largely destroyed:

Battlefield losses and Western sanctions have left the Russian military in a state of decline, but Moscow will still have enough firepower to extend the war in Ukraine, according to a new independent analysis.

The report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies gives stark numbers of Russian military losses – almost 10,000 units of key equipment such as tanks, trucks, artillery pieces and aerial drones, according to one estimate.

But it also says Russia can dip into Cold War-era and older stocks on the front lines to make up in numbers what it may have lost in technology.

“The quality of the Russian military in terms of advanced equipment will likely decline, at least over the near term,” the CSIS report says.

It notes how Russian losses of main battle tanks, especially modern ones, have been severe.


What will happen when the museums are empty and the mothballed T-34s are used up?
 
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The Barbarian

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Any country that has decided to attack Russia on their own soil has lost and paid a heavy price.
Russia is great at defensive wars. As Ukraine makes clear (and Finland made clear much earlier) offensive wars have largely been disasters for them.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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At this point, Russia is far more stretched. There is no way it could fight an effective war against NATO with the growing losses inflicted on them by the Ukrainians.
Which is why it's stupid to think Russia would willingly attack NATO. Strategically it makes no sense.
 
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mindlight

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Any country that has decided to attack Russia on their own soil has lost and paid a heavy price. Napoleon and Hitler found that out. If Russia attacks NATO - I don’t believe they will - we’ll get sucked into war with them and we’d be best just to kick them out of the countries they’re occupying and then settle for “peace”.

Germany beat them in WW1. France and Britain humbled them in the Crimea in the 1850s. These victories occurred at a time when Russia's relative power was greater than it is now. But there are no plans for NATO to invade Russia. Russia is more likely to self-destruct after the pressures of war than to succumb to external invasion.
 
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mindlight

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I saw a video by Peter Zahan and he mentions a war of attrition which Russia prefers. He also mentions that Russia has always fought wars where they try to overwhelm you with numbers and don't care about loss of life, which I think is absolutely moronic. Germany just voted against sending Taurus missiles to Ukraine so apparently, not everyone is on board with this war.

Germany is one of Ukraine's biggest supporters both financially and militarily. But the Taurus missile system is an offensive weapon that would enable them to strike deep into Russian territory. Germany wants Ukraine to be able to defend itself but not to widen the conflict. The USA has not sent cruise missiles either. But the British have a proposal on the table to send Storm Shadow missiles there. Ukraine has its own R-360 Neptune missile also.
 
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mindlight

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At this point, Russia is far more stretched. There is no way it could fight an effective war against NATO with the growing losses inflicted on them by the Ukrainians. At present, the best Russia can say is that they are managing to keep the Ukrainian advances to a minimum and that by emptying their prisons they can keep feeding troops into the meat grinder that the war has become for Russia.

For now, Russia can keep up the effort, by substituting obsolete weapons for the modern systems that the Ukrainians have largely destroyed:

Battlefield losses and Western sanctions have left the Russian military in a state of decline, but Moscow will still have enough firepower to extend the war in Ukraine, according to a new independent analysis.

The report from the Center for Strategic and International Studies gives stark numbers of Russian military losses – almost 10,000 units of key equipment such as tanks, trucks, artillery pieces and aerial drones, according to one estimate.

But it also says Russia can dip into Cold War-era and older stocks on the front lines to make up in numbers what it may have lost in technology.

“The quality of the Russian military in terms of advanced equipment will likely decline, at least over the near term,” the CSIS report says.

It notes how Russian losses of main battle tanks, especially modern ones, have been severe.


What will happen when the museums are empty and the mothballed T-34s are used up?

Even if we allow for 2500 tanks destroyed which is a high-end estimate the Russians may still have as many as 17000 tanks built since the 50s in storage. The extent to which these have been ransacked to service parts for the existing fleet is a big question but the basic equipment is probably still there. What is not sustainable is the human losses - some estimates suggest as high as 300000 dead. This in a generation that was already demographically insufficient. Also, the sanctions on the Russian chip industry mean that while it can continue to fire basic weaponry it could not compete in a conventional war with NATO forces. NATO has given a lot of its stuff to Ukraine but this has been a big opportunity for modernization of stocks and equipment overall.

The Ukrainians themselves are producing more drones than tanks. This seems to be one of the major lessons of the war, again the drone advantage is with the West because of chips. Using an AI to control a drone swarm is not something that the Russians have demonstrated yet but the USA and maybe now China does have this capability

 
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MForbes

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Germany beat them in WW1. France and Britain humbled them in the Crimea in the 1850s. These victories occurred at a time when Russia's relative power was greater than it is now. But there are no plans for NATO to invade Russia. Russia is more likely to self-destruct after the pressures of war than to succumb to external invasion.
Germany did NOT invade Russia in WWI as they did in WWII and Napoleon did. The Germans severely weakened them in the Battle of Tannenberg in Prussia, but Russian imperial troops still remained in east Prussia. Russia backed out of the war when the Romanov dynasty collapsed in 1917 and civil war ensued. Germany did not "beat" them.

France and Britain did humble them and whoop up on them, but the Russians retained the Crimea.
 
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