Leftist violence is not symbolic: Today’s America parallels 1930s Germany

Valletta · Dec 29, 2023

Mr. Biden is also an old, weak and doddering man who refuses to control or even denounce the antisemitic liberals in his party for fear of losing the support of leftist organizations such as Black Lives Matter, which is funding antisemitic groups.
History does often repeat itself, unfortunately. The same dynamics which led to the rise of antisemitism in Nazi Germany in the early 1930s are happening again, only in America.

Leftist violence is not symbolic: Today’s America parallels 1930s Germany

President Biden has let the antisemitic monster out of the bag to all of our detriment. His left-wing supporters are running wild.

www.washingtontimes.com

We must ensure that Democrats do not take Trump off of the ballot and that the American people are allowed to vote for the candidate of their choice.

The IbanezerScrooge · Dec 29, 2023

Valletta said:
Mr. Biden is also an old, weak and doddering man who refuses to control or even denounce the antisemitic liberals in his party for fear of losing the support of leftist organizations such as Black Lives Matter, which is funding antisemitic groups.
History does often repeat itself, unfortunately. The same dynamics which led to the rise of antisemitism in Nazi Germany in the early 1930s are happening again, only in America.

Leftist violence is not symbolic: Today’s America parallels 1930s Germany

President Biden has let the antisemitic monster out of the bag to all of our detriment. His left-wing supporters are running wild.

www.washingtontimes.com

Holy Godwin's Law, Batman!

Valletta said:
We must ensure that Democrats do not take Trump off of the ballot and that the American people are allowed to vote for the candidate of their choice.

Um... Republicans sued and won to take him off the ballot in Colorado.

Do you think the SC should intervene and over-ride the will of the States and force them to put a candidate they disqualified on their primary ballots? You're into state's rights, right?

Valletta · Dec 29, 2023

The IbanezerScrooge said:
Holy Godwin's Law, Batman!

Um... Republicans sued and won to take him off the ballot in Colorado.

Do you think the SC should intervene and over-ride the will of the States and force them to put a candidate they disqualified on their primary ballots? You're into state's rights, right?

Our Constitution lays out which rights are those of the federal government of and which are the states'. No state can deprive a person of their liberty to run for office, nor deny a person equal protection under the law. A state cannot make exceptions for Trump. The Congress, not the states, has the power to enforce the 14th Amendment.

GreatLakes4Ever · Dec 29, 2023

Valletta said:
Our Constitution lays out which rights are those of the federal government of and which are the states'. No state can deprive a person of their liberty to run for office, nor deny a person equal protection under the law. A state cannot make exceptions for Trump. The Congress, not the states, has the power to enforce the 14th Amendment.

I’d like you to point out where this in the text of the United States Constitution.

Valletta · Dec 29, 2023

GreatLakes4Ever said:
I’d like you to point out where this in the text of the United States Constitution.

The 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

GreatLakes4Ever · Dec 29, 2023

Valletta said:
The 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

I’m not seeing where it says the states are prohibited from determining that. Perhaps you can quote the relevant text.

Fantine · Dec 29, 2023

I live in the southern heartland, where the militias and right-wing domestic terrorists live in enclaves in the Oklahoma hills.

The children of a domestic terrorist family were in Girl Scouts with my daughter (I learned this about a year later.)

When people engaged in a peaceful protest after Parkland, domestic terrorists sat up in the trees with sniper rifles, requiring the police in northwest Arkansas to deploy a helicopter to provide adequate surveillance.

Do I worry about BLM? Not a bit! Wake up. The worst domestic terrorists in the country are playing ball in your side of the court. Clamp down on them. Stop them. Disavow them.

RocksInMyHead · Dec 29, 2023

Valletta said:
The 14th Amendment to the Constitution.

The 14th Amendment says nothing about the ability (or lack thereof) of states to prohibit someone from the ballot. Congress has the authority to remedy someone who is faulted under the terms of the 14th, but the amendment itself is self-executing. If you engaged in insurrection, you are barred from federal office. Just like you are barred from certain offices if you are not the right age or were not born in the United States.

Valletta · Dec 29, 2023

RocksInMyHead said:
The 14th Amendment says nothing about the ability (or lack thereof) of states to prohibit someone from the ballot. Congress has the authority to remedy someone who is faulted under the terms of the 14th, but the amendment itself is self-executing. If you engaged in insurrection, you are barred from federal office. Just like you are barred from certain offices if you are not the right age or were not born in the United States.

The 14th Amendment contains the clause in regard to banning members of the Confederacy (the Insurrection) from holding public office. In Section 1 it says:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 5 states:

The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

RocksInMyHead · Dec 29, 2023

Valletta said:
The 14th Amendment contains the clause in regard to banning members of the Confederacy (the Insurrection) from holding public office. In Section 1 it says:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

No state has passed a law prohibiting Trump from running for President, and barring him from the ballot does not deny him life, liberty, or property (he is not being executed, imprisoned, or fined). Nor is he being denied equal protection under the law.

Valletta said:
Section 5 states:

The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

The Supreme Court has generally interpreted that clause to mean that Congress has the authority to pass laws that combat violations of the rights granted under the 14th Amendment. See the Civil Rights cases of 1883. Powers were further limited by Katzenbach v. Morgan (1966) and City of Boerne v. Flores (1997).

Section 3 is self-executing - it does not state a right, but rather prescribes a consequence for engaging in insurrection. There is no requirement for Congress to bar individuals from serving.

Valletta · Dec 29, 2023

RocksInMyHead said:
No state has passed a law prohibiting Trump from running for President, and barring him from the ballot does not deny him life, liberty, or property (he is not being executed, imprisoned, or fined). Nor is he being denied equal protection under the law.

The Supreme Court has generally interpreted that clause to mean that Congress has the authority to pass laws that combat violations of the rights granted under the 14th Amendment. See the Civil Rights cases of 1883. Powers were further limited by Katzenbach v. Morgan (1966) and City of Boerne v. Flores (1997).

Section 3 is self-executing - it does not state a right, but rather prescribes a consequence for engaging in insurrection. There is no requirement for Congress to bar individuals from serving.

Banning Trump from the ballot is not denying him the liberties that others have? Claiming Trump is guilty of insurrection without a trial is not a denial of equal protection under the law? Look, this is election interference, plain and simple--an attack on Trump's rights under the Constitution and an attack against those who want to see him on the ballot.

RocksInMyHead · Dec 29, 2023

Valletta said:
Banning Trump from the ballot is not denying him the liberties that others have?

"Life, liberty, or property" is a specific reference to criminal punishments - execution (life), imprisonment (liberty), and fines (property). It does not refer to things like eligibility for office.

Valletta said:
Claiming Trump is guilty of insurrection without a trial is not a denial of equal protection under the law?

If he was "guilty of insurrection", he would receive the legal punishments for that crime, per 18 US Code 2383. As he has not been fined or sentenced to up to 10 years in prison, he has not been declared "guilty of insurrection". The finding that Trump engaged in insurrection is a purely civil matter, much like the jury's finding that he had sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll. In neither case has he received the prescribed legal punishment for the crime, rather the civil finding is used to support a ruling on a civil matter (his eligibility for the ballot in Colorado and his defamation of Carroll).

Valletta said:
Look, this is election interference, plain and simple--an attack on Trump's rights under the Constitution and an attack against those who want to see him on the ballot.

The Constitution does not grant the right to run for office.

Valletta · Dec 29, 2023

RocksInMyHead said:
"Life, liberty, or property" is a specific reference to criminal punishments - execution (life), imprisonment (liberty), and fines (property). It does not refer to things like eligibility for office.

If he was "guilty of insurrection", he would receive the legal punishments for that crime, per 18 US Code 2383. As he has not been fined or sentenced to up to 10 years in prison, he has not been declared "guilty of insurrection". The finding that Trump engaged in insurrection is a purely civil matter, much like the jury's finding that he had sexually assaulted E. Jean Carroll. In neither case has he received the prescribed legal punishment for the crime, rather the civil finding is used to support a ruling on a civil matter (his eligibility for the ballot in Colorado and his defamation of Carroll).

The Constitution does not grant the right to run for office.

I noticed you skipped the part about "The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article." But you assert, contrary to the 14th Amendment, that is is a "civil matter." I supposed that way all some kooky judge has to do is declare him guilty, just like the one who put that ridiculous value on Mar-a-lago, and thus knock him off of the ballot. Trump has the rights everyone else had, you claim Trump has no such right when if comes to being on the ballot. Don't forget our rights come from God. The Democrats who are doing this are making a mockery of law and due process, and they are to stop with the election interference. Should

Valletta · Dec 29, 2023

“I voted to impeach Donald Trump for his role in the January 6th insurrection. I do not believe he should be re-elected as President of the United States," Golden said. "However, we are a nation of laws, therefore until he is actually found guilty of the crime of insurrection, he should be allowed on the ballot.”

Democratic Rep. Jared Golden disagrees with Trump's removal from ballot

Rep. Jared Golden (D-ME) called for former President Donald Trump to be allowed on the Maine ballot despite the secretary of state's decision.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

RocksInMyHead · Dec 29, 2023

Valletta said:
I noticed you skipped the part about "The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."

I covered that in post #10. Maybe you missed it?

Valletta said:
But you assert, contrary to the 14th Amendment, that is is a "civil matter."

Because it is. Some people filed a lawsuit to have him removed from the ballot on the grounds that he was ineligible for office. That is a civil case.

Valletta said:
I supposed that way all some kooky judge has to do is declare him guilty

It was multiple judges, and they didn't "declare him guilty". The district court (one judge) determined, based on the evidence presented, that Trump had engaged in insurrection on January 6th, but said that the 14th Amendment didn't apply to the President. The Colorado Supreme Court (7 judges) then heard the appeal, in which they affirmed the lower court's finding on insurrection, but reversed the finding on the 14th Amendment. So a total of 8 judges have determined that Trump "engaged in insurrection" based on witness testimony and other evidence presented in court.

Valletta said:
Trump has the rights everyone else had, you claim Trump has no such right when if comes to being on the ballot.

No one has a right to be on the ballot. They must meet certain eligibility requirements, one of which (at least in Colorado and Maine) is that they have not "engaged in insurrection".

Valletta · Dec 29, 2023

RocksInMyHead said:
I covered that in post #10. Maybe you missed it?

Because it is. Some people filed a lawsuit to have him removed from the ballot on the grounds that he was ineligible for office. That is a civil case.

It was multiple judges, and they didn't "declare him guilty". The district court (one judge) determined, based on the evidence presented, that Trump had engaged in insurrection on January 6th, but said that the 14th Amendment didn't apply to the President. The Colorado Supreme Court (7 judges) then heard the appeal, in which they affirmed the lower court's finding on insurrection, but reversed the finding on the 14th Amendment. So a total of 8 judges have determined that Trump "engaged in insurrection" based on witness testimony and other evidence presented in court.

No one has a right to be on the ballot. They must meet certain eligibility requirements, one of which (at least in Colorado and Maine) is that they have not "engaged in insurrection".

I missed that response in #10. The words are clear that Congress enforces the amendment. Actually Trump does have a right to be on the ballot, just because some clown claims he participated in an insurrection, with no trial, is a outrageous violation of his rights. There is something called due process in our country, and those who ignore it are enemies of our Republic. The hatred has to stop, it was hatred that fueled Germany, and the hatred and contempt for America by the hard left is driving the attack on America.

Hans Blaster · Dec 29, 2023

Valletta said:
I missed that response in #10. The words are clear that Congress enforces the amendment.

Congress has the power to enact laws regarding the enforcement. It doesn't say exclusive power. The various clauses of the 14th amendment (due process, etc.) apply to states, etc. and can be enforced by judges in court cases. ("I find the prosecution did not grant the defendant due process under the 14th amendment, therefore this case is dismissed." -- judges everywhere.)

Remember there are those legal scholars and judges who are "strict constructionists" and depend on enumerated powers of Congress to pass laws. Including article V in the 14th amendment explicitly grants Congress to pass civil rights acts to enforce the general provisions of the amendment including restrictions on states.

Valletta said:
Actually Trump does have a right to be on the ballot, just because some clown claims he participated in an insurrection, with no trial, is a outrageous violation of his rights. There is something called due process in our country, and those who ignore it are enemies of our Republic. The hatred has to stop, it was hatred that fueled Germany, and the hatred and contempt for America by the hard left is driving the attack on America.

I'm seeing the hate flowing the other direction here.

Valletta · Dec 29, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
I'm seeing the hate flowing the other direction here.

No squinting. Open your eyes.

Always in His Presence · Dec 29, 2023

Fantine said:
When people engaged in a peaceful protest after Parkland, domestic terrorists sat up in the trees with sniper rifles, requiring the police in northwest Arkansas to deploy a helicopter to provide adequate surveillance.

Citation showing snipers - in Arkansas

Hans Blaster · Dec 29, 2023

Valletta said:
No squinting. Open your eyes.

I've read your posts before. I can see the terms you use to describe anyone holding Trump to account in this thread.

Leftist violence is not symbolic: Today’s America parallels 1930s Germany

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