Why?

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 12, 2023

I am watching a YouTube video about FLDS (a polygamous Mormon sect) where it was mentioned that they forbid their members to celebrate Christmas (they allege it is a pagan holiday). So, I am wondering why so many religious groups, specifically Christian (or maybe "Christian") groups hate Christmas so much? Is there anything in scripture that can be used to justify it?

BobRyan · Dec 12, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
I am watching a YouTube video about FLDS (a polygamous Mormon sect) where it was mentioned that they forbid their members to celebrate Christmas (they allege it is a pagan holiday). So, I am wondering why so many religious groups, specifically Christian (or maybe "Christian") groups hate Christmas so much? Is there anything in scripture that can be used to justify it?

Some oppose the pagan roots for celebrating Dec 25 and fear a kind of syncretism is being inserted into an otherwise Great Christian teaching on the incarnation and birth of Christ.

For literally thousands of years before Christians claimed ownership of December 25th, it was a Pagan holiday celebrating the birth of the Sun God, Sol Invictus which concluded their annual winter festival of Saturnalia. The date is also significant because it was associated with the winter solstice.

I personally don't mind having pagan days deleted and replaced with Christian themed celebrations. So I am happy to read the story of the birth of Christ on Dec 25.

But then a lot of "Santa Claus", Elves making presents, flying rain deer etc - don't present themselves as Christian doctrine so no question about the day getting hijacked by non-Christian elements.

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 12, 2023

BobRyan said:
Some oppose the pagan roots for celebrating Dec 25 and fear a kind of syncretism is being inserted into an otherwise Great Christian teaching on the incarnation and birth of Christ.

For literally thousands of years before Christians claimed ownership of December 25th, it was a Pagan holiday celebrating the birth of the Sun God, Sol Invictus which concluded their annual winter festival of Saturnalia. The date is also significant because it was associated with the winter solstice.

I personally don't mind having pagan days deleted and replaced with Christian themed celebrations. So I am happy to read the story of the birth of Christ on Dec 25.

But then a lot of "Santa Claus", Elves making presents, flying rain deer etc - don't present themselves as Christian doctrine so no question about the day getting hijacked by non-Christian elements.

Agreed, Christmas is a Christian feast and celebration, but Santa and elves and reindeer are cultural accretions that no one need adopt, nevertheless, having ma Christmas tree, decorated with shiny things and lights, and a reath, and reindeer shaped sweets are not pagan they are not a sign of apostate religious thinking.

HTacianas · Dec 12, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
I am watching a YouTube video about FLDS (a polygamous Mormon sect) where it was mentioned that they forbid their members to celebrate Christmas (they allege it is a pagan holiday). So, I am wondering why so many religious groups, specifically Christian (or maybe "Christian") groups hate Christmas so much? Is there anything in scripture that can be used to justify it?

They don't understand what has happened. See here:

1Co 15:25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

By way of example, during the invasion of Iraq the US Army captured Saddam Hussein's palace. As a kind of "spoil of war", Tommy Frank and several of his generals went into Saddam's palace and sat on his sofa and smoked cigars. They had pictures taken of it. For anyone who doesn't know what happened, they might just as well mistake Tommy Frank for Saddam Hussein. Because no one would sit on Saddam's sofa and smoke cigars except Saddam himself.

Now, walk up to the nest ten people you see and ask them what holiday is celebrated on December 25. They will all say Christmas. That's because no one knows those pagan holidays. The pagan gods have been conquered and no one remembers their names. That is what it looks like when someone puts all enemies under his feet. No one remembers them because their names have been blotted out. But then there are some in more ignorant quarters who scratch around and mistake Tommy Frank for Saddam Hussein.

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 13, 2023

HTacianas said:
They don't understand what has happened. See here:

1Co 15:25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

By way of example, during the invasion of Iraq the US Army captured Saddam Hussein's palace. As a kind of "spoil of war", Tommy Frank and several of his generals went into Saddam's palace and sat on his sofa and smoked cigars. They had pictures taken of it. For anyone who doesn't know what happened, they might just as well mistake Tommy Frank for Saddam Hussein. Because no one would sit on Saddam's sofa and smoke cigars except Saddam himself.

Now, walk up to the nest ten people you see and ask them what holiday is celebrated on December 25. They will all say Christmas. That's because no one knows those pagan holidays. The pagan gods have been conquered and no one remembers their names. That is what it looks like when someone puts all enemies under his feet. No one remembers them because their names have been blotted out. But then there are some in more ignorant quarters who scratch around and mistake Tommy Frank for Saddam Hussein.

Amusing analogy. The idea is right. They scratch around and say crazy things about random pagan gods from cartoons or movies as their explanation for why Christmas is pagan, something like Saturnalia, or maybe some ancient Egyptian god that they heard about from their preacher or from a Disney cartoon, or Horus, maybe they read about it in The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop.

HTacianas · Dec 13, 2023

Xeno.of.athens said:
Amusing analogy. The idea is right. They scratch around and say crazy things about random pagan gods from cartoons or movies as their explanation for why Christmas is pagan, something like Saturnalia, or maybe some ancient Egyptian god that they heard about from their preacher or from a Disney cartoon, or Horus, maybe they read about it in The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop.

The Two Babylons. There's a blast from the past. I read that book about 25 years ago. By the time I got half way through it I was absolutely convinced that he was right. But by the time I finished it entirely I realized Hislop was a kook. He was an anti-Catholic Protestant who set out to attack the Roman Church. The problem is that by the time he was finished he had attacked Christianity itself. Good times.

Xeno.of.athens · Dec 13, 2023

HTacianas said:
The problem is that by the time he was finished he had attacked Christianity itself. Good times.

It is inevitable because Catholicism is Christianity.

dzheremi · Dec 13, 2023

Too many are more interested in pagan-hunting or LARPing that they're in the first century than in following what has been normative in Christianity since over a millennia before their particular movements were born. As with everything else (as there's a lot more that these types tend to object to), it's their loss. I don't pay them any mind beyond occasionally going into their threads around western Christmas to remind them how little the things they usually think are 'evidence' of paganism actually matter to Christianity as a whole (e.g., cultural stuff like 'Christmas trees', western 'Santa Claus', etc., which are only found outside of the west by importation, and are not a part of anyone's liturgical celebration of the nativity anyway).

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Xeno.of.athens

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BobRyan

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Xeno.of.athens

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HTacianas

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Xeno.of.athens

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HTacianas

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Xeno.of.athens

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dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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