Why the US economy has powered ahead of other rich nations

The Barbarian · Dec 8, 2023

Good news for most Americans...

Not all pandemic recoveries are created equal.

The world’s richest economies have taken diverging paths in recuperating from the devastating effects of Covid-19.

At a time when multiple forces and crises — wars, geopolitical tensions, the pandemic’s lingering aftershocks, high inflation and steep borrowing costs — weigh on global growth, there have been few bright spots.

The US economy is one of them. Gross domestic product in the United States grew at a remarkable 5.2% in the third quarter, ahead of China, long the engine of global growth.

“The US has really outperformed relative to other countries for the past year,” Innes McFee, chief global economist for Oxford Economics, told CNN.

The United States has powered ahead of the European Union, the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada and other advanced economies this year.

Last month, the Paris-based Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development became the latest intergovernmental body to upgrade its forecasts for US growth this year and next, while downgrading the outlook for the 20 countries that use the euro currency.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/07/economy/us-economy-china-europe/index.html

Biden can't take all the credit for this. McCarthy, in his negotiations with Biden, did the responsible thing, allowing the recovery to continue.

Handmaid for Jesus · Dec 9, 2023

The Barbarian said:
Good news for most Americans...

Not all pandemic recoveries are created equal.

The world’s richest economies have taken diverging paths in recuperating from the devastating effects of Covid-19.

At a time when multiple forces and crises — wars, geopolitical tensions, the pandemic’s lingering aftershocks, high inflation and steep borrowing costs — weigh on global growth, there have been few bright spots.

The US economy is one of them. Gross domestic product in the United States grew at a remarkable 5.2% in the third quarter, ahead of China, long the engine of global growth.

“The US has really outperformed relative to other countries for the past year,” Innes McFee, chief global economist for Oxford Economics, told CNN.

The United States has powered ahead of the European Union, the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada and other advanced economies this year.

Last month, the Paris-based Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development became the latest intergovernmental body to upgrade its forecasts for US growth this year and next, while downgrading the outlook for the 20 countries that use the euro currency.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/07/economy/us-economy-china-europe/index.html

Biden can't take all the credit for this. McCarthy, in his negotiations with Biden, did the responsible thing, allowing the recovery to continue.

This is real good news. :oldthumbsup:

Of course the MAGAs will insist that our economy is the worst in the world.

The Barbarian · Dec 9, 2023

Handmaid for Jesus said:
This is real good news. Of course the MAGAs will insist that our economy is the worst in the world.

As people begin to realize this good news, expect to see ever-increasing propaganda from the right to convince us otherwise.

Lukaris · Dec 9, 2023

Dollar Tree can no longer sell stuff for $1. Soap used to be 3 bars for $1, now it’s 2 bars & increasing price, toilet paper used to 4 or 6 rolls for $1, now I have seen it go to $3 (except for “made in China” which I never saw before). Paper towels are over $1 per roll & climbing. Had cut back for years on fresh produce & shifted more to canned fruit & vegetables which used to usually under $1 now rising steadily ( can still usually avoid “made in China” products for now). V8 juice used to $3 a 48 oz & now it’s nearing $5, Welch’s grape juice (64 oz) to be under $4 & now it’s $5 & climbing. Got laid off from $13/hr job in 2013 (it was pre arranged & got 6 months severance , not crying the blues on this). Went from $13/hr to $10/hr until 2016 and I felt that it was easier to make ends meet from 2014-16 when wages began to rise because of market forces rather than “cash for clunkers or whatever other shaft policies. Since 2016 wages rose and from 2017 till the 2020 pandemic had a $300 (avg) tax refund whereas in 2023, my refund was $2 ( gotta pay the 87,000 irs new hires). Guess having personal recollection of one’s finances is maga propaganda or just one “anecdotal”( seems to be word many libs like) story out of hundreds of millions. Guess if conservatives say “me too” it’s maga mania but with libs it’s the Pravda truth?

Handmaid for Jesus · Dec 9, 2023

Lukaris said:
Dollar Tree can no longer sell stuff for $1. Soap used to be 3 bars for $1, now it’s 2 bars & increasing price, toilet paper used to 4 or 6 rolls for $1, now I have seen it go to $3 (except for “made in China” which I never saw before). Paper towels are over $1 per roll & climbing. Had cut back for years on fresh produce & shifted more to canned fruit & vegetables which used to usually under $1 now rising steadily ( can still usually avoid “made in China” products for now). V8 juice used to $3 a 48 oz & now it’s nearing $5, Welch’s grape juice (64 oz) to be under $4 & now it’s $5 & climbing. Got laid off from $13/hr job in 2013 (it was pre arranged & got 6 months severance , not crying the blues on this). Went from $13/hr to $10/hr until 2016 and I felt that it was easier to make ends meet from 2014-16 when wages began to rise because of market forces rather than “cash for clunkers or whatever other shaft policies. Since 2016 wages rose and from 2017 till the 2020 pandemic had a $300 (avg) tax refund whereas in 2023, my refund was $2 ( gotta pay the 87,000 irs new hires). Guess having personal recollection of one’s finances is maga propaganda or just one “anecdotal”( seems to be word many libs like) story out of hundreds of millions. Guess if conservatives say “me too” it’s maga mania but with libs it’s the Pravda truth?

All of that is true, however our economy is doing well compared to the rest of the world. We are not yet at a days wages for a loaf of bread. Count your blessings.

Lukaris · Dec 9, 2023

Handmaid for Jesus said:
All of that is true, however our economy is doing well compared to the rest of the world. We are not yet at a days wages for a loaf of bread. Count your blessings.

Agreed, I am thankful for my situation and as a single person living simply without privation. I am able bodied & thankful to give alms as the Lord teaches us to.

Where I grew up we brutally busted on each other with jibes and were also good friends. Rarely were there any fights etc. and sometimes I get a little carried away being snarky at times. I am also deeply suspicious of media news and how reality is affected.

I believe crime is pretty bad and there are people, not my personal friends or relatives, but in close proximity as from youth, coworkers, a church member etc. who have been outright murdered.

The Barbarian · Dec 9, 2023

Lukaris said:
Guess having personal recollection of one’s finances is maga propaganda or just one “anecdotal”( seems to be word many libs like) story out of hundreds of millions. Guess if conservatives say “me too” it’s maga mania but with libs it’s the Pravda truth?

Just pointing out the facts. Yes, the pandemic had huge consequences on our economy. The point is that our economy is doing much better than the rest of the world. And that's a good thing for America, if not for the republican party.

And deflation of durable goods is a very good indicator for our economy...

After a historic run-up in inflation, Americans are now starting to see something they haven’t in three years: deflation.

To be sure, deflation—that is, falling prices—is largely confined to appliances, furniture, used cars and other goods. Economywide deflation, when prices of most goods and services continuously fall, isn’t in the cards.

But economists say goods prices likely have further to fall, which will ease inflation’s return to the Federal Reserve’s 2% target, perhaps as early as the second half of next year.

Prices for long-lasting items, known as durable goods, have fallen on a year-over-year basis for five straight months. In October, they were down 2.6% from their peak in September 2022, according to data released Thursday by the Commerce Department.

That has helped bring down core inflation, which excludes the volatile food and energy categories, to 3.5% in October, from 5.5% in September 2022, as measured by the personal-consumption expenditures price index, the Fed’s preferred inflation gauge.

MSN

www.msn.com

Again, good for Americans as a whole; not so good for republicans in particular. And it's true that Biden can't take all the credit for this turnaround from the pandemic; if Kevin McCarthy had chosen to stonewall on the budget, it would have been very difficult for Biden to make any progress at all. But McCarthy did cooperate with Biden, to everyone's benefit but his own. Give him credit for that.

Laodicean60 · Dec 9, 2023

The Barbarian said:
To be sure, deflation—that is, falling prices—is largely confined to appliances, furniture, used cars and other goods.

I heard recessions are good for the little people because of lower prices. The rich don't like it. The thing I don't understand is why people have to be laid off to reduce demand. Why don't they increase sales tax TEPORALARY this would reduce demand, inflation, and more tax to pay the DEBT!

Arcangl86 · Dec 9, 2023

Laodicean60 said:
I heard recessions are good for the little people because of lower prices. The rich don't like it. The thing I don't understand is why people have to be laid off to reduce demand. Why don't they increase sales tax TEPORALARY this would reduce demand, inflation, and more tax to pay the DEBT!

You do realize that the federal government doesn't have a sales tax right?

Laodicean60 · Dec 9, 2023

Arcangl86 said:
You do realize that the federal government doesn't have a sales tax right?

It's an idea. Instead, they use the Phillips curve which harms citizens through unemployment. They can create a tax system to curb demand during high inflation.

Handmaid for Jesus · Dec 9, 2023

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/08/economy/november-jobs-report-final/index.html

Los Angeles, California.

MinneapolisCNN —
The US economy notched another solid month of job growth, with an added lift from actors and autoworkers coming off the picket lines.
Employers added 199,000 jobs in November, and the unemployment rate dipped to 3.7% from 3.9% the month before, according to Bureau of Labor Statistics data released Friday.

Brihaha · Dec 9, 2023

Laodicean60 said:
It's an idea. Instead, they use the Phillips curve which harms citizens through unemployment. They can create a tax system to curb demand during high inflation.

Regardless of whether your idea here is good, I can appreciate people who aren't afraid to toss out suggestions. The more ideas we get for solutions, the better our chances of finding some effective ones. Of course our government "could" create workarounds in dire situations. Like they "could" actually work on immigration reform and reforming section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. Unfortunately, our electorate has saddled America with a group of inept, spoiled brats in DC who cannot even agree on a leader for the republican party. Serious, productive legislation from DC seems like an impossible dream presently.

Jermayn · Dec 9, 2023

The Barbarian said:
Good news for most Americans...

Not all pandemic recoveries are created equal.

The world’s richest economies have taken diverging paths in recuperating from the devastating effects of Covid-19.

At a time when multiple forces and crises — wars, geopolitical tensions, the pandemic’s lingering aftershocks, high inflation and steep borrowing costs — weigh on global growth, there have been few bright spots.

The US economy is one of them. Gross domestic product in the United States grew at a remarkable 5.2% in the third quarter, ahead of China, long the engine of global growth.

“The US has really outperformed relative to other countries for the past year,” Innes McFee, chief global economist for Oxford Economics, told CNN.

The United States has powered ahead of the European Union, the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada and other advanced economies this year.

Last month, the Paris-based Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development became the latest intergovernmental body to upgrade its forecasts for US growth this year and next, while downgrading the outlook for the 20 countries that use the euro currency.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/07/economy/us-economy-china-europe/index.html

Biden can't take all the credit for this. McCarthy, in his negotiations with Biden, did the responsible thing, allowing the recovery to continue.

My question is when do we start using all this money we're supposedly making to pay off debt?

Lukaris · Dec 9, 2023

The Barbarian said:
But McCarthy did cooperate with Biden, to everyone's benefit but his own. Give him credit for that.

From poster in #7:

I agree on McCarthy; I think he was an astute, conservative who knew how to negotiate as opposed to being reckless, selling out or being duped. If he was speaker in 2017, I believe he would still be speaker with a larger GOP house majority.

Laodicean60 · Dec 9, 2023

Brihaha said:
spoiled brats in DC

Unfortunately mostly Boomers?

mindlight · Dec 10, 2023

The Barbarian said:
Good news for most Americans...

Not all pandemic recoveries are created equal.

The world’s richest economies have taken diverging paths in recuperating from the devastating effects of Covid-19.

At a time when multiple forces and crises — wars, geopolitical tensions, the pandemic’s lingering aftershocks, high inflation and steep borrowing costs — weigh on global growth, there have been few bright spots.

The US economy is one of them. Gross domestic product in the United States grew at a remarkable 5.2% in the third quarter, ahead of China, long the engine of global growth.

“The US has really outperformed relative to other countries for the past year,” Innes McFee, chief global economist for Oxford Economics, told CNN.

The United States has powered ahead of the European Union, the United Kingdom, Japan, Canada and other advanced economies this year.

Last month, the Paris-based Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development became the latest intergovernmental body to upgrade its forecasts for US growth this year and next, while downgrading the outlook for the 20 countries that use the euro currency.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/07/economy/us-economy-china-europe/index.html

Biden can't take all the credit for this. McCarthy, in his negotiations with Biden, did the responsible thing, allowing the recovery to continue.

The main criticism usually leveled at the American economy by outsiders is that the benefits are unequally distributed. Much of this growth is in the portfolios of people who do not need the money while the poor struggle with higher prices. Theoretically, the Democrats are more in favor of a fair shot at the American dream than the Republicans are but social mobility has continued to decline under Biden.

The American Dream is less of a reality today in the United States, compared to other peer nations - Equitable Growth

The rate of upward absolute income mobility in the United States has declined substantially over the past 50 years.

equitablegrowth.org

The Barbarian · Dec 10, 2023

mindlight said:
Theoretically, the Democrats are more in favor of a fair shot at the American dream than the Republicans are but social mobility has continued to decline under Biden.

Your link says "upward absolute income mobility" has declined substantially over the past 50 years. I'm thinking 4 years, without a democratic Congress, would be rather short time to turn that around.

A cynic might mention that the Great Depression in the 1930s made it pretty easy for the Silent Generation and the Boomers (I'm an early Boomer) to do better than their parents, of course. My kids fit Gen X/Millenials, and I'm pretty sure they all make more than I did at my peak earning years which was rather middle class.

The other issue is immigrants. The immigrant kids I've taught seem to mostly have exceeded their parent's economic status.

dzheremi · Dec 10, 2023

I make $4 above the state's minimum wage and am doing okay (it's a part-time job, so it's not like I'm raking in the dough), but I work for a Canadian company, so you guessed it: I'm voting Trudeau in 2024.

Take that, two-party system!

iluvatar5150 · Dec 11, 2023

The Barbarian said:
Your link says "upward absolute income mobility" has declined substantially over the past 50 years. I'm thinking 4 years, without a democratic Congress, would be rather short time to turn that around.

A cynic might mention that the Great Depression in the 1930s made it pretty easy for the Silent Generation and the Boomers (I'm an early Boomer) to do better than their parents, of course. My kids fit Gen X/Millenials, and I'm pretty sure they all make more than I did at my peak earning years which was rather middle class.

The other issue is immigrants. The immigrant kids I've taught seem to mostly have exceeded their parent's economic status.

Not just the Great Depression - I think there are a lot of large structural issues that made a trend like this likely. WW2 wrecked the industrial capacity of most of the rest of the world, leaving the post-war Silents and Boomers the opportunities to work in factories for good wages. Then came the federal pushes towards college education, home ownership, and then the tech boom than all enabled tremendous wealth growth.

But where do we go from here when the US doesn't have the competitive advantages that we used to? I don't think you need to be cynical to point out that it's going to be progressively more difficult to be richer than previous generations.

The Barbarian · Dec 11, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
Not just the Great Depression - I think there are a lot of large structural issues that made a trend like this likely. WW2 wrecked the industrial capacity of most of the rest of the world, leaving the post-war Silents and Boomers the opportunities to work in factories for good wages. Then came the federal pushes towards college education, home ownership, and then the tech boom than all enabled tremendous wealth growth.

Yes, all of that had an impact as well.

Why the US economy has powered ahead of other rich nations

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