What Message Does The Proud Boys Heavy Sentencing Send?

xser88 · Sep 8, 2023

The Proud Boys leader was sentenced to 22 years in prison for seditious conspiracy and other charges related to the U.S. Capitol breach. His co-defendants were previously sentenced in this matter with similar lengthy prison time.

What impact does these heavy sentencings have on far-right extremism? Or on anyone considering doing this sort of thing next time?

Is it a deterrent?
Dose it galvanize the base because they see it as overkill?
Or another message being sent?

I believe this will be used as an effective deterrent. Many of these guys were weeping in Court, them and their families begging for mercy. I believe these people are experiencing mega regrets, realizing they won't be with family and friends for years, and now they have to worry about prison life. I don't believe most think it was worth it, and neither will others after seeing the results. I also like the message it sends to other countries, we take attacks on our democracy very seriously.

Desk trauma · Sep 8, 2023

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Arcangl86 · Sep 8, 2023

Mess around and find out.

Pommer · Sep 8, 2023

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.—John Harington: Epigrams

Handmaid for Jesus · Sep 9, 2023

Arcangl86 said:
Mess around and find out.

'Dat ain't what you meant to say. LOL! ^_^

aNewMan · Sep 9, 2023

It sends the message that Tyrants will not be stopped and that we're not voting our way out of anything anymore.

Diamond72 · Sep 9, 2023

xser88 said:
we take attacks on our democracy very seriously.

White man speaks with forked tongue. They claim we have the constitutional right to peaceful demonstration yet they hand out extreme prison time to anyone that takes them up on their offer to demonstrate. The most they should get is 5 years. 1 year should satisfy everyone. Most rioting charges are 180 days and $2000 fine.

Far to many people are put in prison and far to little is done to rehabilitate them. A lot of that is because Science has fallen short on understanding why people are violent and what to do about it. It goes back to the primitive brain and the hunter gather days. The advance brain has to learn how to control the primitive brain.

Desk trauma · Sep 9, 2023

Diamond7 said:
Most rioting charges are 180 days and $2000 fine.

The long sentences were not for rioting charges.

dwb001 · Sep 9, 2023

Desk trauma said:
The long sentences were not for rioting charges.

Right. They are for not even being at the Capital on the day.

Diamond72 · Sep 9, 2023

Desk trauma said:
The long sentences were not for rioting charges.

In order to win a seditious conspiracy case, prosecutors have to prove that two or more people conspired to “overthrow, put down or to destroy by force” the U.S. government or bring war against it, or that they plotted to use force to oppose the authority of the government or to block the execution of a law.

Desk trauma · Sep 9, 2023

Diamond7 said:
In order to win a seditious conspiracy case, prosecutors have to prove that two or more people conspired to “overthrow, put down or to destroy by force” the U.S. government or bring war against it, or that they plotted to use force to oppose the authority of the government or to block the execution of a law.

Which isn’t a change of rioting.

JustOneWay · Sep 9, 2023

Diamond7 said:
White man speaks with forked tongue. They claim we have the constitutional right to peaceful demonstration yet they hand out extreme prison time to anyone that takes them up on their offer to demonstrate. The most they should get is 5 years. 1 year should satisfy everyone. Most rioting charges are 180 days and $2000 fine.

Far to many people are put in prison and far to little is done to rehabilitate them. A lot of that is because Science has fallen short on understanding why people are violent and what to do about it. It goes back to the primitive brain and the hunter gather days. The advance brain has to learn how to control the primitive brain.

It sounds like you are saying violent people are using their 'primitive brain" Perhaps you should try to justify your comment with some studies or other type of evidence. Who ever said that science is required to figure out violence in order to find a solution?

Americans do have the right to peaceful demonstration, but on Jan 6th protestors were beating police officers with American flag poles, spraying them with bear repellent and dragging them around like a garbage bag. There was nothing peaceful about the Jan 6th riot.

JustOneWay · Sep 9, 2023

Diamond7 said:
In order to win a seditious conspiracy case, prosecutors have to prove that two or more people conspired to “overthrow, put down or to destroy by force” the U.S. government or bring war against it, or that they plotted to use force to oppose the authority of the government or to block the execution of a law.

They already proved the seditious conspiracy cases, and they have been found guilty and appropriately sentenced.

Diamond72 · Sep 10, 2023

JustOneWay said:
They already proved the seditious conspiracy cases, and they have been found guilty and appropriately sentenced.

The intent is to prevent this from happening again. They wanted to fight the charges and now they are sentenced to twice as much time as they were offered in a plea deal. They are using laws that go back to the civil war.

Diamond72 · Sep 10, 2023

JustOneWay said:
It sounds like you are saying violent people are using their 'primitive brain" Perhaps you should try to justify your comment with some studies or other type of evidence. Who ever said that science is required to figure out violence in order to find a solution?

Very little is written about this. There is a book called: "The Biology of Violence". By Debra Niehoff PhD.

Adrian Raine, criminologist and author of "The Anatomy of Violence: The Biological Roots of Crime," talks about how biology - in addition to social factors - affect whether or not someone will become a violent criminal, and why men are more likely commit homicidal crimes than women.

The nature vs. nurture debate centers on the contributions of genetics and environmental factors to human development.

The Roots of Human Aggression

Experiments in humans and animals have started to identify how violent behaviors begin in the brain

www.scientificamerican.com

SavedByGrace3 · Sep 10, 2023

"Keep your mouth shut if you know what is good for you.
We did it to them, and we can do it to you."

Arcangl86 · Sep 10, 2023

One thing that I think is interesting is that the judge actually ordered significantly less jail time then the AUSA asked for based on the Sentencing Guidelines. They asked for 396 months, which was near the bottom of the range given by the Guidelines.

Diamond72 · Sep 10, 2023

JustOneWay said:
Who ever said that science is required to figure out violence in order to find a solution?

The research has more to do with predicting who is going to be a violent criminal.

JustOneWay · Sep 10, 2023

Diamond7 said:
The intent is to prevent this from happening again. They wanted to fight the charges and now they are sentenced to twice as much time as they were offered in a plea deal.

They should have taken the deal.
Laws do not prevent crimes from being repeated. The laws are there to punish those who break the same law as others before.

Diamond7 said:
They are using laws that go back to the civil war.

The law is the law. That is the funny thing about laws in America and why there are so many....Somebody tries to commit a crime in a new or different way and legislatures creates a law so future law breakers are held to account. Over time the amount of laws have increased due to the new ways criminals do their criming, but the old laws are still needed when people break the specific laws. The Fourteenth Amendment came about because of the Civil War. It is in the Constitution. Are you suggesting that we revamp the laws of the land because they are old? Like the Civil war era, this attempt by trump, his lawyers, the proud boys and the rest of the rioting mob to take over the government are serious crimes, and many of the Civil War laws fit perfectly with this lawless 'insurrection' action by a bunch of Americans who were duped into believing trump actually won.

JustOneWay · Sep 10, 2023

Diamond7 said:
The research has more to do with predicting who is going to be a violent criminal.

I understand the desire to crunch the numbers in crimes and use the statistics to understand and deter future violence, but it did not work in this case. The very second trump told the proud boys to 'stand back and stand by", that should have been the trigger which should have gotten law enforcement busy with their research....and maybe they were? But, this crime was committed by the leader of the country who controlled law federal law enforcement, and he tried his hardest to get law enforcement in on the crime! There is no precedent for this type of criminality except during the time of the Civil War. This is a seditious conspiracy case, and now that a good chunk of the bad actors are behind bars it it time to take out the masterminds and leaders. Eventually, justice will be served. I never needed any research to understand that trump would eventually resort to violence....the guy had people teargassed so he could walk to a church to shoot an advertisement with a Bible.

What Message Does The Proud Boys Heavy Sentencing Send?

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