Death Penalty

Tellyontellyon · Aug 26, 2023

A person is held in prison for a serious crime... Let's say that the particular country that the person is in has the death penalty for that crime... for the sake of discussion, the person is definitely guilty.

* Should a Christian agree with the death penalty?
* What is the biblical justification for that position?
* WWJD

Thank you.

HTacianas · Aug 26, 2023

Tellyontellyon said:
A person is held in prison for a serious crime... Let's say that the particular country that the person is in has the death penalty for that crime... for the sake of discussion, the person is definitely guilty.

* Should a Christian agree with the death penalty?
* What is the biblical justification for that position?
* WWJD

Thank you.

I personally don't care about the death penalty. They can keep it or abolish it. But the Church generally opposes it as prison sentences are more merciful, and in modern times we have the means of imprisoning people rather than executing them as was done in the past. But it's actually one of the oldest commandments in the bible:

Gen 9:5 “Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man.

Gen 9:6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.

zippy2006 · Aug 26, 2023

...And Romans 13:3-6:

Would you have no fear of him who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain; he is the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be subject, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing.

And Acts 5:4-5, 9-10:

"How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." When Anani′as heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear came upon all who heard of it. [...] But Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? Hark, the feet of those that have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” Immediately she fell down at his feet and died.

And Acts 25:10-11:

But Paul said, "I am standing before Caesar’s tribunal, where I ought to be tried; to the Jews I have done no wrong, as you know very well. If then I am a wrongdoer, and have committed anything for which I deserve to die, I do not seek to escape death;..."

Diamond72 · Aug 27, 2023

Tellyontellyon said:
A person is held in prison for a serious crime... Let's say that the particular country that the person is in has the death penalty for that crime... for the sake of discussion, the person is definitely guilty.

* Should a Christian agree with the death penalty?
* What is the biblical justification for that position?
* WWJD

Thank you.

We are not under law, we are under grace. So it is wrong to kill. The Bible says to choose life. So life is always the right choice, but not always the most easy choice. The Grace of God works in us so we actually do forfill the law but it is not our work but the work of God in and through us.

I think we need to do more to understand the brain and violence.

SavedByGrace3 · Aug 27, 2023

Tellyontellyon said:
A person is held in prison for a serious crime... Let's say that the particular country that the person is in has the death penalty for that crime... for the sake of discussion, the person is definitely guilty.

* Should a Christian agree with the death penalty?
* What is the biblical justification for that position?
* WWJD

Thank you.

I have come to a place where I do not.
Simply because I no longer trust the system that prosecutes and levels the death penalty. The double standard in the system is glaring.

Clare73 · Aug 27, 2023

Tellyontellyon said:
A person is held in prison for a serious crime... Let's say that the particular country that the person is in has the death penalty for that crime... for the sake of discussion, the person is definitely guilty.

* Should a Christian agree with the death penalty?
* What is the biblical justification for that position?
* WWJD

Thank you.

The death penalty was prescribed by God in the laws of Israel.

Clare73 · Aug 27, 2023

Diamond7 said:
We are not under law, we are under grace. So it is wrong to kill. The Bible says to choose life. So life is always the right choice, but not always the most easy choice. The Grace of God works in us so we actually do forfill the law but it is not our work but the work of God in and through us.

I think we need to do more to understand the brain and violence.

We are under grace in spiritual matters.

We are under law in natural/earthly matters.

Tellyontellyon · Aug 27, 2023

Clare73 said:
We are under grace in spiritual matters.

We are under law in natural/earthly matters.

The laws of Moses are not all valid under the new covenant. So what was lawful for Jews back then doesn't all apply now surely? What is the biblical justification for Christians exercising the death penalty on prisoners?
What about God forbidding the killing of Abel? Jesus always spoke of forgiveness, not of killing. Jesus stopped Peter from using the sword. Turning the other cheek etc. etc.

What do you think current secular law should be? Do you support the death penalty for everybody? Or only those who follow Mosaic law?
What about Christians, or non-Christians?
Should non-Christians be subject to religious laws?
(Sorry so many questions)

zippy2006 · Aug 27, 2023

Tellyontellyon said:
The laws of Moses are not all valid under the new covenant.

You are implying more than that the law is no longer valid. You are implying that the law is unjust and inadmissible. That is what a Christian cannot do.

Diamond72 · Aug 27, 2023

Clare73 said:
We are under law in natural/earthly matters.

I was thinking about stoning people to death. Jesus forgave the women. We are all guilty and there would be none of us left. We would all have to stone each other to death.

Clare73 · Aug 28, 2023

Tellyontellyon said:
The laws of Moses are not all valid under the new covenant. So what was lawful for Jews back then doesn't all apply now surely? What is the biblical justification for Christians exercising the death penalty on prisoners?

The NT support of it in Ro 13:3-6.

Tellyontellyon said:
What about God forbidding the killing of Abel? Jesus always spoke of forgiveness, not of killing. Jesus stopped Peter from using the sword.

Jesus stopped Peter from using the sword so Peter would not be executed for killing a Roman soldier, not because Jesus was opposed to the death penalty for criminals.

Tellyontellyon said:
Turning the other cheek etc. etc.
What do you think current secular law should be? Do you support the death penalty for everybody? Or only those who follow Mosaic law?

I support the death penalty for all society.

Tellyontellyon said:
What about Christians, or non-Christians?
Should non-Christians be subject to religious laws?
(Sorry so many questions)

Do you support punishment of thieves and murderers, which are also in agreement with Mosaic law?

You've switched from its morality to its application.
I'm in agreement with the death penalty as Scripture is in agreement with the death penalty, both OT and NT.

Clare73 · Aug 28, 2023

Diamond7 said:
I was thinking about stoning people to death. Jesus forgave the women. We are all guilty and there would be none of us left. We would all have to stone each other to death.

Jesus' not stoning and Jesus forgiving were two different matters.

Punishment was due both parties to the adultery, not just the woman, who was the only one presented. Jesus executed justice.
His forgiveness of her was as his forgiveness of all those he forgives.

Diamond72 · Aug 28, 2023

Clare73 said:
Jesus' not stoning and Jesus forgiving were two different matters.

I was talking about the people that wanted to stone her. Jesus said: "“He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” John 8:7

Clare73 · Aug 28, 2023

Diamond7 said:
I was talking about the people that wanted to stone her. Jesus said: "“He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.” John 8:7

They were not the enforcers of the law.

Diamond72 · Aug 28, 2023

Clare73 said:
They were not the enforcers of the law.

They already covered what Jesus told the people who enforced the law. Mostly having to do with bribes.

"Then some soldiers asked him, 'And what should we do?' He replied, 'Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.'" (Luke 3:14, NIV)

The police spend most of their time extorting money from people because dealing with the bad buys takes up very little of their time. I think Jesus was talking about extorting for personal gain. Most of the extortion goes on in the court system to charge fines for minor offenses.

Clare73 · Aug 29, 2023

Diamond7 said:
They already covered what Jesus told the people who enforced the law. Mostly having to do with bribes.

"Then some soldiers asked him, 'And what should we do?' He replied, 'Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.'" (Luke 3:14, NIV)

The police spend most of their time extorting money from people because dealing with the bad buys takes up very little of their time. I think Jesus was talking about extorting for personal gain. Most of the extortion goes on in the court system to charge fines for minor offenses.

Jesus isn't speaking in Lk 3, John the Baptist is.

Tellyontellyon · Aug 29, 2023

Clare73 said:
The NT support of it in Ro 13:3-6.

Jesus stopped Peter from using the sword so Peter would not be executed for killing a Roman soldier, not because Jesus was opposed to the death penalty for criminals.

I support the death penalty for all society.

Do you support punishment of thieves and murderers, which are also in agreement with Mosaic law?

You've switched from its morality to its application.
I'm in agreement with the death penalty as Scripture is in agreement with the death penalty, both OT and NT.

My view is... I don't agree with the death penalty under any circumstances. It's barbaric whatever any book tells you... If you don't have to kill somebody, then don't.

However, I'm here to hear Christian voices and therefore guage your collective moral compass.
You're not doing well... I'm just finding more reasons to reject Christianity.

Clare73 · Aug 29, 2023

Tellyontellyon said:
My view is... I don't agree with the death penalty under any circumstances. It's barbaric whatever any book tells you... If you don't have to kill somebody, then don't.

However, I'm here to hear Christian voices and therefore guage your collective moral compass.
You're not doing well... I'm just finding more reasons to reject Christianity.

Not surprising. . .

You still think you are God (i.e., get to decide the terms and nature of truth).

God's truth is designed to lock out those who want to judge its veracity and value.
It's designed only for those who agree to accept it before they know it, if it will be shown to them.

dogs4thewin · Aug 29, 2023

Clare73 said:
The death penalty was prescribed by God in the laws of Israel.

Way I see that is until our system is perfect there should be no death penalty. Since there is almost NO way to ensure that no one gets put to death that did not commit the crime death penalty should not be allowed. Now that is different than saying a person should not be permitted to kill in self-defense or defense of others if a person is an active threat to them or another at that particular time such as actively trying to rape, rob or kill someone.

Clare73 · Aug 29, 2023

dogs4thewin said:
Way I see that is until our system is perfect there should be no death penalty. Since there is almost NO way to ensure that no one gets put to death that did not commit the crime death penalty should not be allowed. Now that is different than saying a person should not be permitted to kill in self-defense or defense of others if a person is an active threat to them or another at that particular time such as actively trying to rape, rob or kill someone.

Expecting perfection on earth is a denial of the Biblical testimony.

Dog-lover here also.

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