There is sin that leads to death

tonychanyt · Jul 29, 2023

1 John 5:

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John addressed the people in the church.

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.

What was this sin?

Perhaps John referred to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, i.e., the unforgivable sin.

Let M1 = the person who stubbornly refused to admit his sin and therefore refused to repent.

I am not saying that you should pray about that.

Don't bother praying for M1. He would never change.

17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin;

M1 was not born of God.

the One who was born of God keep them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them. 19We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
21 Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

M1 worshiped idols in his heart, not God.

What was the sin that leads to death?

My guess is the unforgivable sin.

HTacianas · Jul 29, 2023

tonychanyt said:
1 John 5:

John addressed the people in the church.

What was this sin?

Perhaps John referred to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, i.e., the unforgivable sin.

Let M1 = the person who stubbornly refused to admit his sin and therefore refused to repent.

Don't bother praying for M1. He would never change.

M1 was not born of God.

M1 worshiped idols in his heart, not God.

What was the sin that leads to death?

My guess is the unforgivable sin.

It is most fully explained in the Roman Church's teaching of mortal and venial sin. Minor sins -venial- are those sins the writer refers to when he says "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves,,,", see 1 John 1:8. Mortal sins are generally those sins that required the death penalty under the old covenant, see also Hebrews 10:26-31. In the early Church there were three, murder, adultery, and idolatry. Those three could not be absolved by the Church and led to permanent excommunication. That's the meaning of 1 John 5:16 where the writer says we are not to even pray for a person who commits those sins.

It was only around 225 or so AD that Calixtus I of Rome began absolving people of the most egregious sins that the Church extended absolution for them. It led to a minor schism in Rome at the time, see the Calixtus I vs. Hippolytus controversy.

tonychanyt · Jul 29, 2023

HTacianas said:
It is most fully explained in the Roman Church's teaching of mortal and venial sin.

Sure. For my taste, I prefer to stick to the words actually found in the Bible.

d taylor · Jul 29, 2023

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The verse states sin that leads to death. Not a specific sin that leads to death. Ananias and Sapphira committed a sin that lead to death. Some of the believers observing the Lords Supper committed sins that lead to death.

Today a sin that leads to death alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide, etc...

This is definitely not talking about the unforgivable sin, as that sin was a national sin not an individual sin.

tonychanyt · Jul 29, 2023

d taylor said:
-

This is definitely not talking about the unforgivable sin, as that sin was a national sin not an individual sin.

See unforgivable sin and follow up there

HTacianas · Jul 29, 2023

tonychanyt said:
Sure. For my taste, I prefer to stick to the words actually found in the Bible.

Those are the words of the bible. Sin leading to death is mortal sin. Sin not leading to death is venial sin. Your question was what is sin leading to death. That is the answer.

tonychanyt · Jul 29, 2023

HTacianas said:
Those are the words of the bible. Sin leading to death is mortal sin. Sin not leading to death is venial sin.

verse?

HTacianas · Jul 29, 2023

tonychanyt said:
verse?

1Jo 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

tonychanyt · Jul 29, 2023

HTacianas said:
1Jo 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Thanks for the verse reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:

Display and indent the quoted text.
Selectively bold the relevant keywords that are important to the point that you are making. No need to bold the entire sentence. Have a laser-sharp focus.
Be concise and precise to the point. No need to quote the whole chapter.

This is what I do for others who read my posts. It is a standard high-school scholarship. If you practice this, I guarantee you: it will improve your analytical thinking. In any case, no one is required to do it

Danthemailman · Aug 3, 2023

Physically death or spiritual death? Some people jump to the conclusion that John is talking about believers committing certain sins that lead them to spiritual death, but that does not seem to fit the context. 1 John 5:16 - If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

tonychanyt · Aug 3, 2023

Danthemailman said:
Physically death or spiritual death?

Why not both?

Danthemailman · Aug 3, 2023

tonychanyt said:
Why not both?

1 John 5:17 - All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

tonychanyt · Aug 3, 2023

Danthemailman said:
1 John 5:17 - All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

So what kind of sin would lead to physical death but not spiritual death?

Danthemailman · Aug 3, 2023

tonychanyt said:
So what kind of sin would lead to physical death but not spiritual death?

John does not spell the specific sin here which leads to death. Elsewhere in scripture we see that the word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the physical death of believers.

1 Corinthians 11:29 - For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Paul knows that the judgment of God can take on the form of physical illness and even physical death. The word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the physical death of believers, not spiritual death or soul sleep. (John 11:11-12; Acts 7:60; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4)

tonychanyt · Aug 3, 2023

Danthemailman said:
John does not spell the specific sin here which leads to death. Elsewhere in scripture we see that the word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the physical death of believers.

1 Corinthians 11:29 - For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

Paul knows that the judgment of God can take on the form of physical illness and even physical death. The word "sleep" when referring to death, refers to the physical death of believers, not spiritual death or soul sleep. (John 11:11-12; Acts 7:60; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4)

Is there a sin that leads to sleep (physical death) only but not to spiritual death?

Danthemailman · Aug 3, 2023

tonychanyt said:
Is there a sin that leads to sleep (physical death) only but not to spiritual death?

I gave you one example in post #14.

tonychanyt · Aug 3, 2023

Danthemailman said:
I gave you one example in post #14.

which is specifically ...

Danthemailman · Aug 3, 2023

tonychanyt said:
which is specifically ...

Abuse of the Lord's supper.

See 1 Corinthians 11:17-32

tonychanyt · Aug 3, 2023

Danthemailman said:
Abuse of the Lord's supper.
See 1 Corinthians 11:17-32

Thanks for the clarification

Aaron112 · Sep 23, 2023

tonychanyt said:
Let M1 = the person who stubbornly refused to admit his sin and therefore refused to repent.

Don't bother praying for M1. He would never change.

Curious way ?
What if M1 = AI ?

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There is sin that leads to death

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Abuse of the Lord's supper.​

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