SDA: Ellen White is often claiming she was given visions from the Lord. Yet no women in the OT or NT had any visions.

I have no particular opinion on Ellen G White, as I have not studied her writings.

But as to the possibility, in general, of women receiving visions from God, consider Acts 2. Peter interprets the coming of the Holy Spirit as a fulfillment of Joel 2:

"In the last days it will be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams.
Even upon my slaves, both men and women,
in those days I will pour out my Spirit,
and they shall prophesy."

If Peter is correct, the Spirit was being poured out on both men and women, so that both men and women will prophesy.

I don't know whether Joel intends to distinguish between prophecies, visions, and dreams, or whether they are three ways of saying the same thing.

Here's an additional thought: I don't know how you classify angelic appearances when you're listing visions, but the gospels report occasions on which angels appeared to women and gave them either a message to deliver, a task to carry out, or both. The Virgin Mary, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and Salome all experienced angelic appearances.

Note also that the prophet Huldah (2 Kings 22, 2 Chronicles 34) delivers a lengthy message from God when a group of people come to consult her. The text doesn't say how she received the message she delivered, but it does say that she is announcing "the word of the LORD the God of Israel".

Richard.20.12 said:

50% of the population is female yet not a single female had any visions from God? And a whole denomination is founded on a woman's apparent visions? I respect the Sabbath as the SDA's do and can't understand why most Christians don't respect it more. But why would they herald this woman in such high esteem when almost no one of any prominence in the Bible was female.

Here's a page summarizing everyone in the Bible who had a vision. Every one was male.

https://www.[bless and do not curse...ible-study-by-topic/visions-in-the-bible.html

I'm not saying women have nothing to contribute in the Christian world. I've read much written by women that drew me closer to God. But we are warned about placing women in positions of authority in the church. In that I think the Bible is quite clear. This is not someone trying to seek revenge on the sex that first capitulated to Satan in the Garden of Eden. Because right after she ate the forbidden fruit it says she gave to him and he ate it. So it's not as if Adam was some tower of willpower. Would he have capitulated if she wasn't around? We don't know. But as Satan is very smart it's likely he chose the more vulnerable of the two. If Adam wilted so fast it's highly likely he would have wilted over time if alone.

Most of SDA ministry is very closely aligned to the Bible which makes their reverence of White utterly perplexing. If you read her writings it's pretty clear, though she no doubt had good intentions, she was a little delusional. She fictionalizes many Biblical events filling in things she couldn't possibly know. Oh wait...that must be from the visions. Right.

It seems some SDA are distancing themselves from White. That is commendable. Whenever a denomination holds an unquestionable leader in such high regard, watch out. Trouble is usually close by. The only leaders we need to hold up high are God, His Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Everyone else is a sinner and prone to error. So let's not expect perfection from any of them.

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It is important to remember that "prophesying " is not just limited to foretelling of future events. As a matter of fact, we are warned and encouraged to test all such things because it can not always be trusted. Prophesying is most meaningful when speaking the Gospel. In scripture, prophecy is often used to refer to the act of speaking for God, and this can include speaking about the Gospel. Prophecy can be used to communicate the" truth of the Gospel" and to help grow in faith. Many women do this.
As far as Ellen, she was a victim of the " great disappointment ". She was devastated by the unfulfilled prophesy of William Miller ( another example of why we should test all things) she was also one of the leaders in the Millerite Movement. I can't speak of her dreams and visions but what I can say, all things must be tested.

Now addressing women with dreams and visions, let's not forget Mary the mother of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings

We can all receive dreams and visions. You never make a ministry form them. They never guide you. The word of God is what we use. She used those.. take health.. she had a dream/vision which lead the people to do her regulations when it came to health. You can keep going it mostly was based on? A dream or vision. That for me is the 1st red flag and then knowing God will always confirm His word. There will never be ONE person giving the say orders. That is CHRIST alone.

As sis said.. amen TEST THE SPIRITS

I dont see the visions and dreams being for the women either.

Paul said, that ye may ALL prophesy. Which would be both men and women since it says BOTH sons and daughters "shall prophecy" but its to the young men and the old men who are shown as the ones either seeing visions or dreaming dreams and theres a few examples of this.

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

The Spirit dividing to every man as He wills in accordance to these things also. And we see Philip the evangelist had four daughters which did prophesy, (Acts 21:9)

Ananias had a vision (Acts 9:10) And then Saul (Acts 9:12) and the Lord was a witness between the two. As well as Cornelius who had a vision (Acts 10:3) and Peter having a vision (Acts 10:17) and the Lord was a witness between these two also. And ofcourse, Paul said he would go on to more visions (2 Cr 12:1)

Richard.20.12 said:

50% of the population is female yet not a single female had any visions from God? And a whole denomination is founded on a woman's apparent visions? I respect the Sabbath as the SDA's do and can't understand why most Christians don't respect it more. But why would they herald this woman in such high esteem when almost no one of any prominence in the Bible was female.

Here's a page summarizing everyone in the Bible who had a vision. Every one was male.

https://www.[bless and do not curse...ible-study-by-topic/visions-in-the-bible.html

I'm not saying women have nothing to contribute in the Christian world. I've read much written by women that drew me closer to God. But we are warned about placing women in positions of authority in the church. In that I think the Bible is quite clear. This is not someone trying to seek revenge on the sex that first capitulated to Satan in the Garden of Eden. Because right after she ate the forbidden fruit it says she gave to him and he ate it. So it's not as if Adam was some tower of willpower. Would he have capitulated if she wasn't around? We don't know. But as Satan is very smart it's likely he chose the more vulnerable of the two. If Adam wilted so fast it's highly likely he would have wilted over time if alone.

Most of SDA ministry is very closely aligned to the Bible which makes their reverence of White utterly perplexing. If you read her writings it's pretty clear, though she no doubt had good intentions, she was a little delusional. She fictionalizes many Biblical events filling in things she couldn't possibly know. Oh wait...that must be from the visions. Right.

It seems some SDA are distancing themselves from White. That is commendable. Whenever a denomination holds an unquestionable leader in such high regard, watch out. Trouble is usually close by. The only leaders we need to hold up high are God, His Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Everyone else is a sinner and prone to error. So let's not expect perfection from any of them.

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As an SDA I have some insight into this which you do not. During Ellen White's lifetime she came in contact with two men who had been tasked by God to do the work she was given to do and both refused to do it. One was a black man and was afraid no one would believe him.

Yes, we SDA do very closely follow scripture and so did Ellen White in her writings. I have spent quite a few years studying her writings and I have never found anything that doesn't agree with scripture. Now before you start thinking yeah you've been brainwashed by your church let me tell you a part of my life story.

I grew up in an SDA home but unfortunately it was not a Christian home. I was abused physically. emotionally and sexually by family members. I was punished because my dad, who only had an 8th grade education and never spoke English until he started school, would sometimes misinterpret what he read and get really angry when I refused to do what he said after he had been reading her writings because what he said wasn't even close to logical. I got some pretty bad whippings one night because of that and got tossed out of the house for the night. So if anyone has an excuse to dislike Ellen Whites writings I do.

The abuse was so bad that by the time I graduated from high school I started doing drugs in the cowards way of committing suicide. I couldn't take the pain of being hated by my own family any more and just wanted the pain to go away. I spent 7 years in drug addiction and came close to achieving my goal. I was really burnt out. I couldn't even hold down a job pushing a broom.

God then inserted Himself into my life and performed miracle after miracle to change my life. One of the things He did was make sure I had plenty of time on my hands to read. I had been a fan of history since the third grade and Ellen White has a 5 book series on the history of sin and what happens when God finally brings sin to an end. The middle book in the series is on the life of Christ, It's the best book ever written on it. Anyway by the time I got done reading it I realized God actually loved me, the unlovable guy hated by his own family. Ellen White presents the love of God in a way you can't find anywhere else but in the Bible.

Anyway, I hope this helps clear up some of your confusion on the subject. You can download a free copy of The Desire of Ages, her book on the life of Christ, in one of several file types at the following link. Ellen G. White Estate: eBooks (The Desire of Ages)

Richard.20.12 said:

50% of the population is female yet not a single female had any visions from God? And a whole denomination is founded on a woman's apparent visions? I respect the Sabbath as the SDA's do and can't understand why most Christians don't respect it more. But why would they herald this woman in such high esteem when almost no one of any prominence in the Bible was female.

Here's a page summarizing everyone in the Bible who had a vision. Every one was male.

https://www.[bless and do not curse...ible-study-by-topic/visions-in-the-bible.html

I'm not saying women have nothing to contribute in the Christian world. I've read much written by women that drew me closer to God. But we are warned about placing women in positions of authority in the church. In that I think the Bible is quite clear. This is not someone trying to seek revenge on the sex that first capitulated to Satan in the Garden of Eden. Because right after she ate the forbidden fruit it says she gave to him and he ate it. So it's not as if Adam was some tower of willpower. Would he have capitulated if she wasn't around? We don't know. But as Satan is very smart it's likely he chose the more vulnerable of the two. If Adam wilted so fast it's highly likely he would have wilted over time if alone.

Most of SDA ministry is very closely aligned to the Bible which makes their reverence of White utterly perplexing. If you read her writings it's pretty clear, though she no doubt had good intentions, she was a little delusional. She fictionalizes many Biblical events filling in things she couldn't possibly know. Oh wait...that must be from the visions. Right.

It seems some SDA are distancing themselves from White. That is commendable. Whenever a denomination holds an unquestionable leader in such high regard, watch out. Trouble is usually close by. The only leaders we need to hold up high are God, His Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Everyone else is a sinner and prone to error. So let's not expect perfection from any of them.

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Well @PloverWing will likely disagree with my reply just as much, but I would say while women can prophecy, the issue with EGW is actually the authority and teaching role which she has been given posthumously, which seems contradictory to the mandate of St. Paul that women not teach or exercise authority over men. Although historically the early church interpreted this as women not holding the office of Presbyter or Episkopos. However considering EGW’s writings are infallible prophecy, given their scope, that gives what she wrote as much authority or more authority than anything ever written by a Roman bishop (the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption were majority views in the Roman church before being declared as dogma ex cathedra using Papal Infallibility, the only time that has happened since the First Vatican Council declared the Pope infallible, probably in response to the Italian nationalists under King Victor Emmanuel having conquered Rome and the rest of the Papal States). So if one did object to EGW on the basis of her sex, it seems to me that would be the Scriptural reason for doing so - the Epistles of St. Paul on the restricted teaching authority of women.

Gary K said:

I grew up in an SDA home but unfortunately it was not a Christian home. I was abused physically. emotionally and sexually by family members. I was punished because my dad, who only had an 8th grade education and never spoke English until he started school, would sometimes misinterpret what he read and get really angry when I refused to do what he said after he had been reading her writings because what he said wasn't even close to logical. I got some pretty bad whippings one night because of that and got tossed out of the house for the night. So if anyone has an excuse to dislike Ellen Whites writings I do.

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God bless you. I am so sorry that happened to you. I have no doubt that God is working in your life and it is clear you have received His grace.

I had a similar experience to what you described reading The Orthodox Way by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, memory eternal, and also the Sayings of the Desert Fathers and the Philokalia, and I know many people who love the writings of CS Lewis (I greatly enjoy most of them) and of Thomas Merton for similar reasons.

The Liturgist said:

God bless you. I am so sorry that happened to you. I have no doubt that God is working in your life and it is clear you have received His grace.

I had a similar experience to what you described reading The Orthodox Way by Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, memory eternal, and also the Sayings of the Desert Fathers and the Philokalia, and I know many people who love the writings of CS Lewis (I greatly enjoy most of them) and of Thomas Merton for similar reasons.

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The Desire of Ages is in the Smithsonian library and Catholic priests have said it is the best book ever written on the life of Christ. It really is an amazing book. I've read CS Lewis and like his writings but have to say they don't come close to the Desire of Ages.

As to what happened to me, I now thank God for allowing me to go through it as I learned so much about the power and evil of sin, and more importantly about the power and love of God. He can change our lives completely.

Gary K said:

As to what happened to me, I now thank God for allowing me to go through it as I learned so much about the power and evil of sin, and more importantly about the power and love of God. He can change our lives completely.

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This is a very good attitude.

The word disciples means = discipline. Were talking about Christian people. The last prophet was John Baptist and Jesus.
I would be extra careful about woman or man of the clothe claiming God spoke to me today. Jeremiah chapter 23 will document this.
Hebrews chapter 5, God chooses His own shepherds. Many are self appointed, get the picture.
Matthew chapter 24, Jesus warned us that many false prophet's would come before the 7th trump. God doesn't go around talking to people. Read Jeremiah chapter 23 for clarification.

Richard.20.12 said:

50% of the population is female yet not a single female had any visions from God? And a whole denomination is founded on a woman's apparent visions?

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Not actually true.

1. All SDA doctrine comes from the Bible alone
2. Many women in both OT and NT are stated to be prophets.

The Bible DEFINES the prophetic gift this way -
Numbers 12:6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream

We are discussing one of Ellen White's teachings in this thread:


She indicates that the false, time-setting message of William Miller, that Jesus was coming in 1843, was "heavenly", "saving truth" and that those who rejected it were lost.

We examine her claims, and discuss some of the history.

tall73 said:

She indicates that the false, time-setting message of William Miller, that Jesus was coming in 1843, was "heavenly", "saving truth"

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She indicated that the false message of the disciples on Palm Sunday that Jesus was coming to rule Jerusalem and take the throne ... was a message sent by God.

tall73 said:

We examine her claims, and discuss some of the history.

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Consider skimming past fewer details.

Out of curiosity should I be "surprised" that you have not addressed the point of the OP - that no woman can be a prophet that has visions from God?

anetazo said:

The word disciples means = discipline. Were talking about Christian people. The last prophet was John Baptist and Jesus.

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And Paul and the Apostle John writing the book of Revelation and the Gospel of John and the NT authors and all those in 1 Cor 14 and the entire church age as we see in Eph 4.

So ... except for that..

anetazo said:

I would be extra careful about woman or man of the clothe claiming God spoke to me today.

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I would be extra careful about that too but I know enough about 1 Cor 12 and Eph 4 not to reject it outright without first looking and testing.

Gary K said:

The Desire of Ages is in the Smithsonian library and Catholic priests have said it is the best book ever written on the life of Christ. It really is an amazing book. I've read CS Lewis and like his writings but have to say they don't come close to the Desire of Ages.

As to what happened to me, I now thank God for allowing me to go through it as I learned so much about the power and evil of sin, and more importantly about the power and love of God. He can change our lives completely.

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Very true -- still we always choose to get to the Bible details in a sola-scriptura discussion as often as people will allow it.

BobRyan said:

She indicated that the false message of the disciples on Palm Sunday that Jesus was coming to rule Jerusalem and take the throne ... was a message sent by God.

Consider skimming past fewer details.

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Folks will find if they go to the thread that your claim was not skimmed over. Nor did you deny that Ellen White called Miler's failed time-setting message "heavenly" or "saving truth" after the fact of its failure.