Ukraine Might Still Loose the War

Lukaris · Jul 10, 2023

Putin is doing more to undermine Christian faith than his perceived enemies. The Patriarch of Moscow seems to be a stooge or a ((dangerously) misguided fool.

I believe the Metropolitan of Kyiv ( Kiev) has tried to exhibit faith & witness as a good Christian.

Onufriy Berezovsky - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Truth7t7 · Jul 10, 2023

The Barbarian said:
A strong leader does not flee the capitol when threatened.

When Zelensky was offered a way to flee Ukraine, he said "I don't need a ride; I need ammunition."

When the Wagner group approached Moscow in rebellion against Putin, he fled to St. Petersberg.

All a Hollywood theatrical play, smoke and mirrors in a staged production, to produce desired outcomes in deception

Merrill · Jul 10, 2023

Lukaris said:
Putin is doing more to undermine Christian faith than his perceived enemies. The Patriarch of Moscow seems to be a stooge or a ((dangerously) misguided fool.

I believe the Metropolitan of Kyiv ( Kiev) has tried to exhibit faith & witness as a good Christian.

Onufriy Berezovsky - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

but let's not kid ourselves

Zelensky is Jewish, and has nothing but contempt for Christianity. Millions of daily money is flowing into Israeli banks.

Neither Zelenksy, nor Putin, is some champion of Christianity

Arcangl86 · Jul 10, 2023

Sabri said:
I believe in the word of God. Im
Ok with that.

Oh? Where does the Word of God endorse imprisoning or assassinating political opponents and journalists? Where does the Word of God endorse forbidding evangelism and mission work? Where can I find approval of police and military torture? Does the Word of God allow for things such as missile strikes against hospitals? Or does his severe persecution of LGBT folk make up for all of that?

Lukaris · Jul 10, 2023

Merrill said:
but let's not kid ourselves

Zelensky is Jewish, and has nothing but contempt for Christianity. Millions of daily money is flowing into Israeli banks.

Neither Zelenksy, nor Putin, is some champion of Christianity

I can’t say Zelensky has contempt for Christianity. There has been a battle for control of the Orthodox Church in Ukraine between the Ecumenical Patriarch in Istanbul ( Constantinople) and the Patriarch of Moscow. Zelensky, as far as I know, has nothing to do with this ( it precedes him).

The Patriarch of Moscow is the rightful overseer of the Orthodox Church in Russia and Ukraine. However, I can’t see how Ukrainians will ever want to acknowledge the current Moscow Patriarch ( or any other?) ever again. Metropolitan Onufriy is Ukrainian has stood with his people but not ruptured the church hierarchy.

Regrettably, it seems Zelensky is somewhat hostile ( or maybe distrustful) of Metropolitan Onufriy. The only matter of Zelensky being Jewish ( I think) is that he may not fully grasp the church territory tensions between the Moscow & Ecumenical Patriarchs. Personally, I don’t fully understand them but the conflict is evident.

Just a random comment on Putin. I have always understood him to be cruel but until this war, he actually did some good for Russia. Russia was falling apart when Putin filled a power vacuum and the homicide rates were skyrocketing. He brought that down & brought needed better law & order back. When Putin took over in 1999, the homicide rate was 26.2 per 100,000 people and by 2020, it dropped to 7.33 per 100,000 people.

Russia Murder/Homicide Rate 1990-2023

Intentional homicides are estimates of unlawful homicides purposely inflicted as a result of domestic disputes, interpersonal violence, violent conflicts over land resources, intergang violence over turf or control, and predatory violence and killing by armed groups. Intentional homicide does...

www.macrotrends.net

Hans Blaster · Jul 10, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Putin is fighting against a western world in a proxy war, protecting a Russian speaking people from genocide in the Donbass region

No Putin is fighting against Ukraine. Ukraine is receiving western weapons and logistical support, but they do their own fighting in the Donbas and elsewhere.

Truth7t7 said:
He's fighting against having his country wave the rainbow flag and the homosexual liberal Ideaology being pushed upon the majority

No, Putin did not launch a war against the "woke mob" or "liberalism" or "homosexual ideology". He launched a war of conquest and obliteration against a neighboring people because the didn't want to bow down to him.

Hans Blaster · Jul 10, 2023

Sabri said:
Who says that Putin blew the invasion.

Most military analysts that don't take their pay packets in Rubles. Me. Or frankly anyone who watched them overextend themselves in teh first few weeks and then get pushed back when they didn't capture Kyiv.

Sabri said:
He’s taking his time a making and implementing his plan to win.

He had a plan. A quick strike victory against an unprepared foe. It worked in Crimea in 2014. It failed in Ukraine in 2022.

Sabri said:
I don’t see anything wrong with that. He’s doing a good job so far.

LOLOLOLOL

Sabri said:
Ukraine is still on a losing trajectory.

Russia wishes it was on the Ukrainian "losing trajectory".

Truth7t7 · Jul 10, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
No Putin is fighting against Ukraine. Ukraine is receiving western weapons and logistical support, but they do their own fighting in the Donbas and elsewhere.

No, Putin did not launch a war against the "woke mob" or "liberalism" or "homosexual ideology". He launched a war of conquest and obliteration against a neighboring people because the didn't want to bow down to him.

Putin is fighting against the western world in a proxy war, Ukrainian citizens are being used as pawns, cannon fodder

Putin entered Ukraine to stop Zelensky's innocent killing of Russian speaking people in the Donbas, Zelensky being in complete violation of the internationally recognized Minsks Agreements, Putin has stopped the genocide in the Russian speaking Donbas

Truth7t7 · Jul 10, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
Most military analysts that don't take their pay packets in Rubles. Me. Or frankly anyone who watched them overextend themselves in teh first few weeks and then get pushed back when they didn't capture Kyiv.

He had a plan. A quick strike victory against an unprepared foe. It worked in Crimea in 2014. It failed in Ukraine in 2022.

LOLOLOLOL

Russia wishes it was on the Ukrainian "losing trajectory".

NBCNews

Ukraine is running low on ammo. Europe faces pressure to produce more.

Mar 3, 2023

Dwindling foreign stockpiles are an increasing concern as the U.S. and other allies debate how to increase production of munitions the world hasn’t much needed since the Cold War.

Top Dems break with Biden over sending cluster bombs to Ukraine

7-8-2023

Key Democratic lawmakers are breaking with President Joe Biden over the controversial decision to send cluster bombs to Ukraine, arguing that providing the weapons, which are banned by more than 120 countries, cedes the moral high ground and will end up indiscriminately killing civilians.

Top Democrats on the House Rules Committee and the panels that fund the Pentagon and State Department lashed out in rare public statements broadcasting their break with their party’s president.

Hans Blaster · Jul 10, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Putin is fighting against the western world in a proxy war, Ukrainian citizens are being used as pawns, cannon fodder

Ukrainian citizens are signing up to fight for their own country. This is not a proxy war, this is a war of defense and survival for Ukraine. And with the exception of the "meat assaults" being made by Russia with undertrained troops, there aren't really any 'cannon fodder' on either side in this war.

Truth7t7 said:
Putin entered Ukraine to stop Zelensky's innocent killing of Russian speaking people in the Donbas, Zelensky being in complete violation of the internationally recognized Minsks Agreements, Putin has stopped the genocide in the Russian speaking Donbas

Oh good grief. What nonsense. "genocide in the Donbas". Just stop reading what ever source you got that "info" from.

Truth7t7 · Jul 10, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
This is not a proxy war

Of course it is, the western world is funding and supplying Ukraine, and the citizens of Ukraine are the western world pawns and cannon fodder

NBCNews

Ukraine is running low on ammo. Europe faces pressure to produce more.

Mar 3, 2023

Dwindling foreign stockpiles are an increasing concern as the U.S. and other allies debate how to increase production of munitions the world hasn’t much needed since the Cold War.

Top Dems break with Biden over sending cluster bombs to Ukraine

7-8-2023

Key Democratic lawmakers are breaking with President Joe Biden over the controversial decision to send cluster bombs to Ukraine, arguing that providing the weapons, which are banned by more than 120 countries, cedes the moral high ground and will end up indiscriminately killing civilians.

Top Democrats on the House Rules Committee and the panels that fund the Pentagon and State Department lashed out in rare public statements broadcasting their break with their party’s president.

Hans Blaster · Jul 10, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Of course it is, the western world is funding and supplying Ukraine, and the citizens of Ukraine are the western world pawns and cannon fodder

Talk to the experts:

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-02-21-expert-comment-no-proxy-war-russia-really-invaded-ukraine

Truth7t7 · Jul 10, 2023

Hans Blaster said:
Talk to the experts:

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-02-21-expert-comment-no-proxy-war-russia-really-invaded-ukraine

As you have been shown, the US, Europe, and the western world is funding and supplying this war, Ukraine isn't a NATO member, it's a "Proxy War" and those that are funding and supplying it are active participants in this war

Post all you want, it's a fact those mentioned above are funding and supplying this war, and they are keeping it going as innocent Ukranian citizens are the western worlds pawns in cannon fodder

It Sorta reminds me of the 7th grade boy that fought the 9th grade high schooler, and as he sat covered in blood and beat to a pulp, those around him screamed get up and fight, in a battle the 7th grade boy wasn't going to win

Ukraine is the 7th grade boy, and the western world are those screaming get up and fight

childeye 2 · Jul 11, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
As you have been shown, the US, Europe, and the western world is funding and supplying this war, Ukraine isn't a NATO member, it's a "Proxy War" and those that are funding and supplying it are active participants in this war

Post all you want, it's a fact those mentioned above are funding and supplying this war, and they are keeping it going as innocent Ukranian citizens are the western worlds pawns in cannon fodder

It Sorta reminds me of the 7th grade boy that fought the 9th grade high schooler, and as he sat covered in blood and beat to a pulp, those around him screamed get up and fight, in a battle the 7th grade boy wasn't going to win

Ukraine is the 7th grade boy, and the western world are those screaming get up and fight

Respectfully, it was Russia who attacked Ukraine directly. It therefore does not qualify as a proxy war. Furthermore, it was described from the outset as a military operation, and Putin didn't want to call it a war.

Truth7t7 · Jul 11, 2023

childeye 2 said:
Respectfully, it was Russia who attacked Ukraine directly. It therefore does not qualify as a proxy war. Furthermore, it was described from the outset as a military operation, and Putin didn't want to call it a war.

Respectfully, it was Russia who came to the aid of the Russian speaking people in the Donbas region, who were being killed by Zelensky in genocide, in violation of the internationally recognized Minsk Agreements

Respectfully, the conflict taking place is Russia against the western world who is funding and supplying the conflict, better known as "Proxy Wars"

Proxy War: Bold Red Below Is The USA Funding, Training, Supplying Arms, To Ukraine In Sustaining It's War Effort "Yes"

Wikipedia: Proxy War
is an armed conflict between two states or non-state actors, one or both of which act at the instigation or on behalf of other parties that are not directly involved in the hostilities.[1] In order for a conflict to be considered a proxy war, there must be a direct, long-term relationship between external actors and the belligerents involved.[2] The aforementioned relationship usually takes the form of funding, military training, arms, or other forms of material assistance which assist a belligerent party in sustaining its war effort.

atpollard · Jul 11, 2023

Lukaris said:
Just a random comment on Putin. I have always understood him to be cruel but until this war, he actually did some good for Russia. Russia was falling apart when Putin filled a power vacuum and the homicide rates were skyrocketing. He brought that down & brought needed better law & order back. When Putin took over in 1999, the homicide rate was 26.2 per 100,000 people and by 2020, it dropped to 7.33 per 100,000 people.

I understand that under Mussolini, the trains in Italy finally operated on schedule (apparently shooting people if the train is late IS a strong motivator). ... the benefits of a despot probably do not outweigh the costs (but there are some benefits).

atpollard · Jul 11, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Ukraine isn't a NATO member

Yet.

Per NATO:

Dialogue and cooperation started when newly independent Ukraine joined the North Atlantic Cooperation Council (1991) and the Partnership for Peace programme (1994).
Relations were strengthened with the signing of the 1997 Charter on a Distinctive Partnership, which established the NATO-Ukraine Commission (NUC) to take cooperation forward.
Since 2009, the NUC has overseen Ukraine's Euro-Atlantic integration process, including reforms under the Annual National Programme (ANP).
Cooperation has deepened over time and is mutually beneficial, with Ukraine actively contributing to NATO-led operations and missions.
Priority is given to support for comprehensive reform in the security and defence sector, which is vital for Ukraine's democratic development and for strengthening its ability to defend itself.
Since the NATO Summit in Warsaw in July 2016, NATO's practical support for Ukraine is set out in the Comprehensive Assistance Package (CAP) for Ukraine.
In June 2017, the Ukrainian Parliament adopted legislation reinstating membership in NATO as a strategic foreign and security policy objective. In 2019, a corresponding amendment to Ukraine's Constitution entered into force.
In September 2020, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy approved Ukraine's new National Security Strategy, which provides for the development of the distinctive partnership with NATO with the aim of membership in NATO.
Since Russia's illegal annexation of Crimea and the beginning of its aggression in eastern Ukraine in 2014, NATO has reinforced its support for capability development and capacity-building in Ukraine. The Allies condemn and will not recognise Russia's illegal and illegitimate annexation of Crimea. They have equally condemned Russia's continued aggression and destabilising activities in eastern Ukraine and the Black Sea region since 2014. NATO has increased its presence in the Black Sea and stepped up maritime cooperation with Ukraine and Georgia.
NATO condemns Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine in the strongest possible terms. This aggression gravely undermines international security and stability, and is a blatant violation of international law. NATO Allies, in concert with relevant resolutions of the UN General Assembly, demand that Russia stop the war immediately, withdraw all its forces from Ukraine and engage in genuine diplomacy.
The Alliance also condemns Russia's illegal attempt to annex four regions of Ukraine – Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia. The sham referenda in these regions were engineered in Moscow and imposed on Ukraine. They have no legitimacy, and NATO will not recognise them. These lands are Ukraine and will always be Ukraine.
NATO stands with the people of Ukraine and its legitimate, democratically elected president, parliament and government. The Alliance will always maintain its full support for the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine within its internationally recognised borders.

Support for NATO-led operations and missions

Ukraine has contributed to the peace-support operations in Bosnia and Herzegovina. It has also contributed to the Kosovo Force (KFOR), including with a heavy engineering unit with counter-improvised explosive devices capabilities.
In support of the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan, Ukraine allowed over-flight clearance and the transit of supplies, and contributed medical personnel to support Provincial Reconstruction Teams in Afghanistan and instructors to the NATO Training Mission in Afghanistan. Following the end of ISAF's mission in 2014, Ukraine supported the follow-on Resolute Support Mission (2015-2021) to train, advise and assist Afghan security forces.
From March 2005, Ukraine contributed officers to the NATO Training Mission in Iraq, which terminated in December 2011.
Ukraine deployed ships six times between 2007 and 2010 in support of Operation Active Endeavour, a counter-terrorist maritime surveillance operation in the Mediterranean Sea. In 2013, it also contributed to NATO's counter-piracy operation Ocean Shield. Since the launch of maritime operation Sea Guardian in 2016, Ukraine has provided information in support of NATO's maritime situational awareness in and around the Black Sea.

The Barbarian · Jul 11, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Putin is fighting against a western world in a proxy war, protecting a Russian speaking people from genocide in the Donbass region

No one was bothering ethnic Russian Ukrainians before Putin invaded their nation. Hitler played the same card over the ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia. No one bought that story,either.

Truth7t7 said:
He's fighting against having his country wave the rainbow flag and the homosexual liberal Ideaology being pushed upon the majority

When's the last time a homosexual dictator invaded another nation? Unless Putin's in the closet, (which has been suggested) it doesn't happen.

Russian President Vladimir Putin is a sexless man who may be secretly gay. At least, that's what political analyst and notorious columnist Stanislav Belkovsky is alleging in a controversial new biography about the Russian president.
According to a recent Spiegel Online review of the book, reportedly entitled "Putin," the publication depicts the Russian as an extremely wealthy but "traumatized" and lonely person who shuns human contact.
In the book, Belkovsky, a long-time Putin opponent, is also said to speculate that "sex and a sex life are alien" to the politician, who the 42-year-old author says may be "latently gay."

Is Vladimir Putin Secretly Gay?

www.huffpost.com

There's a great deal of evidence that repressed homosexuals are inclined to violence. So it makes some sense.

The Barbarian · Jul 11, 2023

Sabri said:
Who says that Putin blew the invasion.

His own people, for example. There was a huge exodus of young men from Russia as a result of the war. Russian bloggers who favor the war, are bitterly critical of the way Putin bungled the invasion. Would you like me to show you again?

Sabri said:
He’s taking his time a making and implementing his plan to win.

Ah, losing most of his armored forces, and hundreds of thousands of troop, losing the flagship of his fleet and losing most of the gains he made in the early war, are all clever tactics. Can you explain how? I assume the rebellion was also in the plan, um?

Sabri said:
I don’t see anything wrong with that. He’s doing a good job so far.

You seem to have a unique idea of what a "good job" is.

The Barbarian · Jul 11, 2023

Sabri said:
Right, he did say I need ammunition. However, he looked to others to give him something his country should have provided.

That is probably what infuriated Putin most. Ukrainians are highly motivated to fight for their nation; they only needed material,which most of the free world is giving them. And they're doing it well. Even Russians admit that Ukraine is winning. Even the title of this thread is a tacit admission that the Ukrainians are winning.

"Ukraine might still lose the war"

Now, that's a slogan to rally your guys. BTW, Sweden is about to follow Finland in joining NATO, as Turkey dropped its objections. You guys want to try for Austria and Switzerland?

No matter how it goes from here, Putin's aggression backfired on him. The very thing he went to war to prevent has come true as a result of his bungling. How could he have been so stupid?

Ukraine Might Still Loose the War

Orthodox Christian

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Orthodox Christian

Area Meathead

Area Meathead

Newbie

Newbie

NBCNews​

Ukraine is running low on ammo. Europe faces pressure to produce more.​

Top Dems break with Biden over sending cluster bombs to Ukraine​

Area Meathead

Newbie

NBCNews​

Ukraine is running low on ammo. Europe faces pressure to produce more.​

Top Dems break with Biden over sending cluster bombs to Ukraine​

Area Meathead

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Crabby Old White Guy

Crabby Old White Guy

Crabby Old White Guy

Similar threads

NBCNews

Ukraine is running low on ammo. Europe faces pressure to produce more.

Top Dems break with Biden over sending cluster bombs to Ukraine

NBCNews

Ukraine is running low on ammo. Europe faces pressure to produce more.

Top Dems break with Biden over sending cluster bombs to Ukraine