Shattering the myth of men as hunters and women as gatherers

Occams Barber · Jul 3, 2023

28 JUNE 2023

Shattering the myth of men as hunters and women as gatherers

…A common belief holds that, among foraging populations, men have typically hunted animals while women gathered plant products for food. However, mounting archaeological evidence from across human history and prehistory is challenging this paradigm; for instance, women in many societies have been found buried alongside big-game hunting tools.

Some researchers have suggested that women's role as hunters was confined to the past, with more recent foraging societies following the paradigm of men as hunters and women as gatherers. To investigate that possibility, Anderson and colleagues analyzed data from the past 100 years on 63 foraging societies around the world, including societies in North and South America, Africa, Australia, Asia, and the Oceanic region.

They found that women hunt in 79% of the analyzed societies, regardless of their status as mothers. More than 70% of female hunting appears to be intentional—as opposed to opportunistic killing of animals encountered while performing other activities, and intentional hunting by women appears to target game of all sizes, most often large game.

The analysis also revealed that women are actively involved in teaching hunting practices and that they often employ a greater variety of weapon choice and hunting strategies than men.

These findings suggest that, in many foraging societies, women are skilled hunters and play an instrumental role in the practice, adding to the evidence opposing long-held perceptions about gender roles in foraging societies….

Source

Shattering the myth of men as hunters and women as gatherers (phys.org)

OB

trophy33 · Jul 3, 2023

Occams Barber said:
They found that women hunt in 79% of the analyzed societies, regardless of their status as mothers.

There is just some artistic picture of a woman with a bow, in the article.

What kind of hunting? Age of the women? Photos, videos?

Because women, if having enough of nutrition, store fat on legs and in other areas that make them compatible with maternity, but not with hunting, it would be interesting to see how these hunter women look like, if they run a lot (being significantly slower than men), if they throw spears (being about 50% weaker than men, having significantly worse muscle dynamics etc.) or what is going on.

Gene2memE · Jul 3, 2023

Occams Barber said:
Shattering the myth of men as hunters and women as gatherers

…A common belief holds that, among foraging populations, men have typically hunted animals while women gathered plant products for food. However, mounting archaeological evidence from across human history and prehistory is challenging this paradigm; for instance, women in many societies have been found buried alongside big-game hunting tools.
....

Source

Shattering the myth of men as hunters and women as gatherers (phys.org)

OB

This is one of those myths that keeps getting "busted".

At university in the early 2000s, I remember papers from the 1970s through to the 1990s showing there was vastly less of a difference between gender roles when it came to hunting than commonly assumed by the 'men go out to hunt, women stay home to gather/process food' model.

The controversy at the time was more about the extent to which hunting roles overlapped between the genders and how to determine the extent of hunting behaviour. There was lots of speculation and argumentation about why rates diverged between societies as well.

Good read on the topic from 2021: Women were successful big-game hunters, challenging beliefs about ancient gender roles

If you can chase it down via JSTOR, this is worth a read too: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3567384

Also, there are some really interesting sociological studies about gender and hunting patterns in various hunter-gatherer societies in Australia and South America.

Occams Barber · Jul 3, 2023

myst33 said:
There is just some artistic picture of a woman with a bow, in the article.

What kind of hunting? Age of the women? Photos, videos?

Because women, if having enough of nutrition, store fat on legs and in other areas that make them compatible with maternity, but not with hunting, it would be interesting to see how these hunter women look like, if they run a lot (being significantly slower than men), if they throw spears (being about 50% weaker than men, having significantly worse muscle dynamics etc.) or what is going on.

I was waiting for the misogynist brigade to arrive - welcome.

Some fairly obvious responses:

1.The essence of hunting is not necessarily speed - it's often stamina or stealth. Where speed is an issue, it's speed relative to the prey - not the men.
2. A similar argument related to strength (I note women seemed to go for the bigger prey.)
3. Women are not in a continuous state of pregnancy
4. The study was based on what was actually happening within 63 different foraging societies not what your imagination conjures up.

OB

trophy33 · Jul 3, 2023

Occams Barber said:
I was waiting for the misogynist brigade to arrive - welcome.

I would appreciate if you restrained from name calling.

Occams Barber said:
Some fairly obvious responses:

1.The essence of hunting is not necessarily speed - it's often stamina or stealth. Where speed is an issue, it's speed relative to the prey - not the men.
2. A similar argument related to strength (I note women seemed to go for the bigger prey.)
3. Women are not in a continuous state of pregnancy
4. The study was based on what was actually happening within 63 different foraging societies not what your imagination conjures up.

Again, photos, videos? Age of the women hunters? What kind of hunting? Anything specific to actually inform us?

Occams Barber · Jul 3, 2023

Gene2memE said:
This is one of those myths that keeps getting "busted".

At university in the early 2000s, I remember papers from the 1970s through to the 1990s showing there was vastly less of a difference between gender roles when it came to hunting than commonly assumed by the 'men go out to hunt, women stay home to gather/process food' model.

The controversy at the time was more about the extent to which hunting roles overlapped between the genders and how to determine the extent of hunting behaviour. There was lots of speculation and argumentation about why rates diverged between societies as well.

Good read on the topic from 2021: Women were successful big-game hunters, challenging beliefs about ancient gender roles

If you can chase it down via JSTOR, this is worth a read too: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3567384

Also, there are some really interesting sociological studies about gender and hunting patterns in various hunter-gatherer societies in Australia and South America.

Thanks for the links.

The article makes some pointed suggestions that the gender role concept is still alive and well among the academic community. There is some criticism of archaeologists not accepting hunting weapon grave goods as the possessions of the female deceased.

OB

Occams Barber · Jul 3, 2023

myst33 said:
Again, photos, videos? Age of the women hunters? What kind of hunting? Anything specific to actually inform us instead of just some gender ideology persuasion?

The article I gave you was just that - an article. If you want to see the original paper the details are below:

Analysis of data from dozens of foraging societies around the world shows that women hunt in at least 79% of these societies, opposing the widespread belief that men exclusively hunt and women exclusively gather. Abigail Anderson of Seattle Pacific University, US, and colleagues presented these findings in the open-access journal PLOS ONE on June 28, 2023.

trophy33 · Jul 3, 2023

Occams Barber said:
The article I gave you was just that - an article. If you want to see the original paper the details are below:

Analysis of data from dozens of foraging societies around the world shows that women hunt in at least 79% of these societies, opposing the widespread belief that men exclusively hunt and women exclusively gather. Abigail Anderson of Seattle Pacific University, US, and colleagues presented these findings in the open-access journal PLOS ONE on June 28, 2023.

Still nothing specific about those female hunters.

Occams Barber · Jul 3, 2023

myst33 said:
Still nothing specific about those female hunters.

Why? Were you expecting the ladies' names and addresses?

The study was based on around 390 existing ethnographic studies. Since the study covered societies in the last 100 years many of these hunter-gatherer societies would no longer exist as hunter-gatherers.

Read it for yourself.

The Myth of Man the Hunter: Women’s contribution to the hunt across ethnographic contexts

The sexual division of labor among human foraging populations has typically been recognized as involving males as hunters and females as gatherers. Recent archeological research has questioned this paradigm with evidence that females hunted (and went to war) throughout the Homo sapiens lineage...

journals.plos.org

OB

trophy33 · Jul 3, 2023

Occams Barber said:
Why? Were you expecting the ladies' names and addresses?

The study was based on around 390 existing ethnographic studies. Since the study covered societies in the last 100 years many of these hunter-gatherer societies would no longer exist as hunter-gatherers.

Read it for yourself.

The Myth of Man the Hunter: Women’s contribution to the hunt across ethnographic contexts

The sexual division of labor among human foraging populations has typically been recognized as involving males as hunters and females as gatherers. Recent archeological research has questioned this paradigm with evidence that females hunted (and went to war) throughout the Homo sapiens lineage...

journals.plos.org

OB

Photos, videos of hunting. Their specific role during hunting, what kind of hunting, age of the women, anything, anything useful at all.

So far it seems that somebody just wanted to deal with the "myth" of specific gender roles in primitive societies, without providing evidence or details.

For example, here are Hadza people hunting baboons:

Or, hunters in Malaysia:

Anything similar with female hunters, to actually see them in action?

Occams Barber · Jul 3, 2023

myst33 said:
Photos, videos of hunting. Their specific role during hunting, what kind of hunting, age of the women, anything, anything useful at all.

So far it seems that somebody just wanted to deal with the "myth" of specific gender roles in primitive societies, without providing evidence or details

Read the report

trophy33 · Jul 3, 2023

Occams Barber said:
Read the report

Thanks for help. The only video about female hunters I was able to find was some "against patriarchy" lesson, without any actual footage. Considering they are supposedly present in 70% of primitive societies, its interesting.

Occams Barber · Jul 3, 2023

myst33 said:
Thanks for help. The only video about female hunters I was able to find was some "against patriarchy" lesson, without any actual footage. Considering they are supposedly present in 70% of primitive societies, its interesting.

Read the report. I gave you the link in post#9.
OB

trophy33 · Jul 3, 2023

Occams Barber said:
Read the report. I gave you the link in post#9.
OB

The report are just letters on a website.

When I tried to find something more about those tribes they mentioned, I saw women sitting with children or dancing, not hunting, men were hunting.

public hermit · Jul 3, 2023

Here's a video of a primitive society where women hunt. I can speak to the veracity of this video because I'm a member of this primitive tribe. But trust me, I'm praying we make progress!

durangodawood · Jul 3, 2023

Generally, if a great many ethnographers say "women did hunting" I'm inclined to give that credence.

comana · Jul 4, 2023

myst33 said:
There is just some artistic picture of a woman with a bow, in the article.

What kind of hunting? Age of the women? Photos, videos?

Because women, if having enough of nutrition, store fat on legs and in other areas that make them compatible with maternity, but not with hunting, it would be interesting to see how these hunter women look like, if they run a lot (being significantly slower than men), if they throw spears (being about 50% weaker than men, having significantly worse muscle dynamics etc.) or what is going on.

Women not having the same physical attributes as men does preclude them from being successful hunters.

the Vital One · Jul 4, 2023

Occams Barber said:
View attachment 332898
28 JUNE 2023

Shattering the myth of men as hunters and women as gatherers

…A common belief holds that, among foraging populations, men have typically hunted animals while women gathered plant products for food. However, mounting archaeological evidence from across human history and prehistory is challenging this paradigm; for instance, women in many societies have been found buried alongside big-game hunting tools.

Some researchers have suggested that women's role as hunters was confined to the past, with more recent foraging societies following the paradigm of men as hunters and women as gatherers. To investigate that possibility, Anderson and colleagues analyzed data from the past 100 years on 63 foraging societies around the world, including societies in North and South America, Africa, Australia, Asia, and the Oceanic region.

They found that women hunt in 79% of the analyzed societies, regardless of their status as mothers. More than 70% of female hunting appears to be intentional—as opposed to opportunistic killing of animals encountered while performing other activities, and intentional hunting by women appears to target game of all sizes, most often large game.

The analysis also revealed that women are actively involved in teaching hunting practices and that they often employ a greater variety of weapon choice and hunting strategies than men.

These findings suggest that, in many foraging societies, women are skilled hunters and play an instrumental role in the practice, adding to the evidence opposing long-held perceptions about gender roles in foraging societies….

Source

Shattering the myth of men as hunters and women as gatherers (phys.org)

OB

My impression is that you're sharing this not out of an interest in paleontology but to make a point about the modern world. Let me open that door if others have not sufficiently done so already. Is there a connection to the modern political and culture discord you'd like to make?

trophy33 · Jul 4, 2023

comana said:
Women not having the same physical attributes as men does preclude them from being successful hunters.

Thanks for opinion. I would like to see them in action to know how they hunt and what. Do you have some videos? I literally cannot find any from a hunters/gatherers tribe, involving women. In all I can find, only men hunt.

I am not saying its impossible, I am just curious to see how they do it, considering their biological disadvantages.

PloverWing · Jul 4, 2023

myst33 said:
Thanks for opinion. I would like to see them in action to know how they hunt and what. Do you have some videos? I literally cannot find any from a hunters/gatherers tribe, involving women. In all I can find, only men hunt.

I am not saying its impossible, I am just curious to see how they do it, considering their biological disadvantages.

Asking for videos seems like a lot. The burial sites mentioned in the introduction include a 9000-year-old site, a 2500-year-old site, and a Viking site of unspecified age, all predating video technology by centuries. Of the modern hunters, I would guess that the hunter/gatherer societies being studied are unlikely to be taking iPhones out with them when they're hunting.

Some of the hunting methods are, however, briefly described in the paper. According to the paper, weapons used by female hunters include nets, knives, bows and arrows, spears, and machetes. There are plenty of footnotes, if you want to read the original research papers whose data are being summarized.

Shattering the myth of men as hunters and women as gatherers

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