Trump v Nixon

rambot · Apr 7, 2023

I'm not old enough to know this but after all that stuff went down with Nixon, Im Curious what happened with his supporters?

Did they see the light? Did they say they were wrong for supporting him or did they just clam up? How long did it take?

It seems now that there was wide agreement on Nixon impropriety. But I could be wrong: are there people who still think he was a good president?

Do you think America's (communal) opinion of Trump would ever end up looking like Nixon?

HTacianas · Apr 7, 2023

rambot said:
I'm not old enough to know this but after all that stuff went down with Nixon, Im Curious what happened with his supporters?

Did they see the light? Did they say they were wrong for supporting him or did they just clam up? How long did it take?

It seems now that there was wide agreement on Nixon impropriety. But I could be wrong: are there people who still think he was a good president?

Do you think America's (communal) opinion of Trump would ever end up looking like Nixon?

You never heard Sweet Home Alabama by Lynyrd Skynyrd?

Now Watergate does not bother me.
Does your conscience bother you?

Yttrium · Apr 7, 2023

The parties weren't so hyperpartisan back then. If the atmosphere then had been like it is now, Nixon would have stayed safely in office, and Republicans would have vowed revenge for Democrat efforts to impeach him out of office.

But yeah, I think Nixon ended up looking like he did a pretty good job as president overall. It's just that he was a crook. Meanwhile, Trump's accomplishments were greatly overshadowed by all the bad stuff, and I expect his reputation to just get worse over time.

Always in His Presence · Apr 7, 2023

rambot said:
But I could be wrong: are there people who still think he was a good president?

I am old enough - the first election I voted in, I voted for Jimmy Carter. It was a colossal error on my part.

There were elements of his presidency that were very good.

Ending the Vietnam war - that was good.
Opening relationships with Taiwan - that was good.
Opened up relations with China - that was good.
He negotiate and installed several international treaties - SALT 1 and the Anti-Ballistic Missals Treaty - that was good.
He supported and promoted the Clean Air Act and OSHA - that was good.

We can safely say there were actions that made him a good President and obviously there were actions that made him a bad President.

There are elements of Trump's first term that were very good.

The Abrahams Accord - first Middle East Peace treaty in four decades - that was good
Pre pandemic economy was robust - that was good
Pre Pandemic record low unemployment for minorities - that was good
Border control increased exponentially - that was good

We can safely say there were actions that made him a good President and obviously there were actions that made him a bad President

Brihaha · Apr 7, 2023

I think Mr Trump's legacy will be far worse than Nixon. By the time he's gone, it may be nigh on impossible for people to genuinely and honestly say Mr Trump was anything but a corrupt disaster as president. His legacy becomes more besmirched by the day.

Fantine · Apr 7, 2023

If you're comparing the two, you might wind up pinning a halo on Nixon.

They were completely different in many ways.

Trump: Charisma (albeit a very odd charisma, and a repellent charisma to many) without brains.
Nixon: Brains without charisma.

Without Watergate and its subsequent coverup, Nixon would have had a pretty good presidential record. Ended the Vietnam War. Reestablished relations with China. Was prophetic enough to consider universal healthcare for all Americans.

Before Nixon's death, Bill Clinton said he spoke to him regularly about world affairs. Clinton had no foreign policy experience before becoming President, and he said Nixon's knowledge and insights gave him a good foreign policy education and background.

He received the traditional honors a former president did when he died.

To me Trump is like the record holders in the baseball hall of fame with asterisks next to their name--reminding everyone that they're
diminished.

Fantine · Apr 7, 2023

Yttrium said:
The parties weren't so hyperpartisan back then. If the atmosphere then had been like it is now, Nixon would have stayed safely in office, and Republicans would have vowed revenge for Democrat efforts to impeach him out of office.

But yeah, I think Nixon ended up looking like he did a pretty good job as president overall. It's just that he was a crook. Meanwhile, Trump's accomplishments were greatly overshadowed by all the bad stuff, and I expect his reputation to just get worse over time.

Accomplishments? There were accomplishments?

I wish the "accomplishments" would be as short-lived and harmless as the "bad stuff."

The 1/6 insurrection was definitely bad stuff, but it was easily contained.

Giving the Supreme Court a 6-3 supermajority (assisted by the dishonest chicanery of Mitch McConnell in the cases of Gorsuch and Barrett) has been disastrous for our country, as our Constitutional protections are falling by the wayside one by one, ruled on by justices like Clarence Thomas who ask their jet-setting benefactors how to rule before deciding.

seeking.IAM · Apr 7, 2023

The difference is us. In the 1970's voters and politicians alike were not willing to tolerate such unethical behavior. Now it doesn't seem to matter to many.

Say it aint so · Apr 7, 2023

seeking.IAM said:
The difference is us. In the 1970's voters and politicians alike were not willing to tolerate such unethical behavior. Now it doesn't seem to matter to many.

Yes. Now days politicans not only conduct that kind of behavior, but they campaign fund off of it and are rewarded.

Brihaha · Apr 7, 2023

Say it aint so said:
Yes. Now days politicans not only conduct that kind of behavior, but they campaign fund off of it and are rewarded.

I believe Dr Phil when he tells us not to reward bad behavior. It reinforces the bad behavior when people reward it. I mean look at Mr Trump. He has been rewarded for bad behavior his entire life. Which may be why he never learned any humility.

Blade · Apr 7, 2023

rambot said:
I'm not old enough to know this but after all that stuff went down with Nixon, Im Curious what happened with his supporters?

Did they see the light? Did they say they were wrong for supporting him or did they just clam up? How long did it take?

It seems now that there was wide agreement on Nixon impropriety. But I could be wrong: are there people who still think he was a good president?

Do you think America's (communal) opinion of Trump would ever end up looking like Nixon?

really? Nixon was guilty.. Trump never has been. Unless you toss out all of the right and only go with what the left says. It would be better to say Joe Biden v Nixon.. those two match

Say it aint so · Apr 7, 2023

Blade said:
really? Nixon was guilty.. Trump never has been. Unless you toss out all of the right and only go with what the left says. It would be better to say Joe Biden v Nixon.. those two match

Nixon wasn't found guilty of anything, nor was he under any federal investigations. Nixon was "pre-pardoned" by Ford, Trump told advisors he was thinking about pardoning himself. Trump's name sake org has been found guilty of being a criminal org. Trump himself is currently indicted and under one more state investigation along with two more federal. So yes, kind of like Nixon, but worse than Nixon.

HARK! · Apr 7, 2023

I have contempt for Nixon's Liberal policies, such as gun control, detaching us from the gold standard, and overstepping his Constitutional authority by signing the CSA. I'll make this clear. I am vehemently opposed to drug abuse; but I'm also vehemently opposed to politicians overstepping their Constitutional boundaries. I'm am opposed to his weaponizing our government against his opponents, for his personal gain, and his criminal activity.

The Libertarian Party was born because of a fracture in the Republican Party, over Nixon's unconstitutional Liberal policies.

The only good things that I can say about him is that he pulled us out of that unconstitutional Imperialist aggression against the people of Vietnam, and that he looked for ways to be wise stewards of our environment.

Yttrium · Apr 7, 2023

HARK! said:
The Libertarian Party was born because of a fracture in the Republican Party, over Nixon's unconstitutional Liberal policies.

What.

Hans Blaster · Apr 7, 2023

Say it aint so said:
Nixon wasn't found guilty of anything, nor was he under any federal investigations.

This is half true. The special counsel was investigating Nixon for crimes and prepared a draft indictment. It was this continuing investigation that triggered the need for a Ford pardon. (He was, of course, never found guilty as he wasn't charge with anything. This is the problem with the "X has never been charged/convicted" claim. It doesn't mean crimes weren't committed.)

Pommer · Apr 7, 2023

HARK! said:
I have contempt for Nixon's Liberal policies, such as gun control, detaching us from the gold standard, and overstepping his Constitutional authority by signing the CSA. I'll make this clear. I am vehemently opposed to drug abuse; but I'm also vehemently opposed to politicians overstepping their Constitutional boundaries. I'm am opposed to his weaponizing our government against his opponents, for his personal gain, and his criminal activity.

The Libertarian Party was born because of a fracture in the Republican Party, over Nixon's unconstitutional Liberal policies.

The only good things that I can say about him is that he pulled us out of that unconstitutional Imperialist aggression against the people of Vietnam, and that he looked for ways to be wise stewards of our environment.

Not to mention both the EPA and OSHA that had their genesis during the Nixon administration.

DaisyDay · Apr 7, 2023

rambot said:
I'm not old enough to know this but after all that stuff went down with Nixon, Im Curious what happened with his supporters?

Did they see the light? Did they say they were wrong for supporting him or did they just clam up? How long did it take?

It seems now that there was wide agreement on Nixon impropriety. But I could be wrong: are there people who still think he was a good president?

Do you think America's (communal) opinion of Trump would ever end up looking like Nixon?

Nixon's popularity remained high during the scandal. It took a while before support sank.

Merrill · Apr 7, 2023

The tragedy of Nixon was that he was the most capable and experience statesman we have had in the Whitehouse in the last 50 years.

That doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes, but he was like that quarterback who could throw for 400 yards and win you a game, despite a couple interceptions. He was more respected by Soviet and Chinese leaders than any American president in history. He could sit down with foreign leaders and have deep, meaningful conversations regarding international relations and political ideology

In the decades after he left the Whitehouse, presidents of both parties would call him and ask him for advice during times of crisis.

DaisyDay · Apr 7, 2023

Say it aint so said:
Nixon wasn't found guilty of anything, nor was he under any federal investigations. Nixon was "pre-pardoned" by Ford, Trump told advisors he was thinking about pardoning himself. Trump's name sake org has been found guilty of being a criminal org. Trump himself is currently indicted and under one more state investigation along with two more federal. So yes, kind of like Nixon, but worse than Nixon.

At least Nixon tried to govern well. He understood government but he was deeply, deeply flawed.

One big success was opening relations with China.

HARK! · Apr 7, 2023

Yttrium said:
What.

Starting with its' founder:

Early life and education

Nolan was born on November 23, 1943, in Washington, D.C., and grew up in Maryland.[5] During high school, he was influenced by Ayn Rand and Robert A. Heinlein and their libertarianism. He enrolled at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, graduating with a BS in political science in 1965.[6] While at MIT, he helped in founding M.I.T. Students for Goldwater in 1964, promoting the Republican presidential candidacy of Senator Barry Goldwater.[2]

Nolan believed that in August 1971, President Richard Nixon's imposition of wage and price controls and closing the foreign gold window along with his belief that the Vietnam War was both ill-considered and illegal,[2] were three of the final straws for Nolan and his group of initial founders of the Libertarian Party. Nolan and his group had initiated a Committee the previous July, Committee to Form a Libertarian Party,

Wikizero - <span class="mw-page-title-main">David Nolan (politician)</span>

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