Towards a biblical view of universalism

Chaleb · Mar 18, 2023

Der Alte said:
From your posts I am aware of your beliefs, my post was mainly for those who labor under the misconception that everyone will be saved, even after death.

Universalism, is almost correct.

As, Christ has already died for the sin of the world. And this is why His Salvation that is the Cross of Christ, that was given 2000 yrs ago, is still redeeming the World's sin forever.

2 Corinthians 5:19

Where this CULT teaching flies off the chain and into the dumpster is based on the author of this cult not understanding that RECEIVING this Salvation has a Condition.

Universalist's dont believe that Salvation has one condition, just as Calvinists don't believe that the Cross was raised for the "world".

1.) You must BELIEVE so that God will accept your faith as "Faith is counted as righteousness", = "justificaton by FAITH"

"The work of God (The Cross).......is that you BELIEVE in Jesus whom God sent".

hedrick · Mar 18, 2023

Chaleb said:
Calvinism, this cult teaching, denies that "Salvation is available to all", which denies the Cross of Christ.
To be "anti-Cross" is to be "anti-Christ".

Actually it doesn't. It says that it is available to all, but all don't want it. The identities of those who don't want it are part of God's plan, but it's still their decision. It's the last point where there's debate. Calvinism theology does not assume that God works the same way with the elect and those who are not. He arranges for the salvation of the elect. He does not obstruct the salvation of the others.

(Note that I am not a Calvinist.)

Der Alte · Mar 18, 2023

Chaleb said:
Universalism, is almost correct.
As, Christ has already died for the sin of the world. And this is why His Salvation that is the Cross of Christ, that was given 2000 yrs ago, is still redeeming the World's sin forever.
2 Corinthians 5:19
Where this CULT teaching flies off the chain and into the dumpster is based on the author of this cult not understanding that RECEIVING this Salvation has a Condition.
Universalist's dont believe that Salvation has one condition, just as Calvinists don't believe that the Cross was raised for the "world".
1.) You must BELIEVE so that God will accept your faith as "Faith is counted as righteousness", = "justificaton by FAITH"
"The work of God (The Cross).......is that you BELIEVE in Jesus whom God sent".

An analogy I once came across.
There was a man living in a remote cabin by a road near a river. It began to rain. The water rose until it touched the road. A kindly person with a 4 wheel drive stopped and offered the man a ride. He said "No thanks God will take care of me." And the water continued to rise until it covered the road. A kindly person with a boat stopped and offered to rescue the man. Once again he said "No thanks God will take care of me." The water continued to rise until the man had to get on his roof to avoid it. By and by a kindly person with a helicopter came by and offered to help the man. And once again he said "No thanks God will take care of me." Eventually the man drowned, in heaven he complained to God,. "I thought you were going to take care of me?" God answered "I did, I sent you 4X4, a boat and a helicopter, what more could I have done?"

Jeff Saunders · Mar 18, 2023

Chaleb said:
"ALL who call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"

If you don't, and you die, you are this...... John 3:36

Also, The will of God, is that "you believe on Jesus Whom God sent".

= "all who call on the name of Jesus, shall be saved".

2 Peter 3:9 its Gods will that none should parish but that all will come to life : what about this verse?

Der Alte · Mar 18, 2023

Jeff Saunders said:
2 Peter 3:9 its Gods will that none should parish but that all will come to life : what about this verse?

I call your 2 Peter 3:9 and raise you a Jeremiah 13:11-14.

Water and Fire · Mar 18, 2023

I love it when people talk about not believing that everyone will eventually be saved, because they believe the teachings of Christ, but only choose to believe certain things that Christ said, and in a literal way, Christ explicitly said that his words were not.

Der Alte · Mar 18, 2023

Water and Fire said:
I love it when people talk about not believing that everyone will eventually be saved, because they believe the teachings of Christ, but only choose to believe certain things that Christ said, and in a literal way, Christ explicitly said that his words were not.

Do you believe Jesus when He said "Not everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven?"

Matthew 7:21-23

(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Neither the Father nor Jesus, themselves, ever said that all mankind will enter the kingdom of heaven.
In this passage Jesus says, "Not every one shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Then He says, "Many," NOT a few will say to Him "In that day" i.e. the day of judgement "Lord, Lord, have we not ...in thy name done many wonderful works? Then Jesus will tell them, "I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity." When Jesus says never He means never not some day by and by.

Chaleb · Mar 18, 2023

hedrick said:
Actually it doesn't. It says that it is available to all, but all don't want it.

Calvin believed this..

Adam lost free will because free will requires the mind to deliberate and to discern good from evil before choosing one of these ends. In this sense, free will no longer exists in humans because our natures have become corrupted.

This nonsense is related to the 'T" in "TULIP".....but not just to the "T".

So, if man has no free will, then man (you) are not able to choose Christ, therefore God has to "elect" you to be chosen, by pre-destination.
See that?
THAT DENIES faith, which also denies How God imparts salvation. So, that is Cross Denying theology.

That's one of Calivn's worst lies, but its by no means his only.

Chaleb · Mar 18, 2023

Der Alte said:
An analogy I once came across.
There was a man living in a remote cabin by a road near a river. It began to rain. The water rose until it touched the road. A kindly person with a 4 wheel drive stopped and offered the man a ride. He said "No thanks God will take care of me." And the water continued to rise until it covered the road. A kindly person with a boat stopped and offered to rescue the man. Once again he said "No thanks God will take care of me." The water continued to rise until the man had to get on his roof to avoid it. By and by a kindly person with a helicopter came by and offered to help the man. And once again he said "No thanks God will take care of me." Eventually the man drowned, in heaven he complained to God,. "I thought you were going to take care of me?" God answered "I did, I sent you 4X4, a boat and a helicopter, what more could I have done?"

Yes.

Thank you Der Alte

Im familar with that one.......its a good one.

The man was probably a Hyper Calvinist who had no freewill to choose a ride.
He kept waiting for God to pre-destine Him one to choose, right up until he was breathing under water.

Chaleb · Mar 18, 2023

Jeff Saunders said:
2 Peter 3:9 its Gods will that none should parish but that all will come to life : what about this verse?

That verse came from a horrible bible version apparently.

It should say....."but that all should come to repentance".

Look at what you's says......"come to life"?

That is not even connected to "repentance.."

"come to life" is what a seed does when you plant it and water it and give it some sunshine.
Is that "come to repentance". ????

Jeff Saunders · Mar 18, 2023

Chaleb said:
Universalism, is almost correct.

As, Christ has already died for the sin of the world. And this is why His Salvation that is the Cross of Christ, that was given 2000 yrs ago, is still redeeming the World's sin forever.

2 Corinthians 5:19

Where this CULT teaching flies off the chain and into the dumpster is based on the author of this cult not understanding that RECEIVING this Salvation has a Condition.

Universalist's dont believe that Salvation has one condition, just as Calvinists don't believe that the Cross was raised for the "world".

1.) You must BELIEVE so that God will accept your faith as "Faith is counted as righteousness", = "justificaton by FAITH"

"The work of God (The Cross).......is that you BELIEVE in Jesus whom God sent".

why would John the baptizer say of Jesus "Look ! The Lamb of God , who takes away the sin of the world" if Jesus was just the potential savior? John 12:47 " If anyone hears my words and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world" did Jesus fail in his mission if he doesn't save the world , would that not make Jesus a liar? when Jesus said he was the savior of the world it was a proclamation of what he was doing, not that he was a potential savior. I was taught that people go to "hell" because if sin if Jesus died for the worlds sin and he conquered satan why are they going to "hell" ? Rom 5:18" Just as the result of one trespass was condemnation of all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men" notice it doesn.t say for some or even most it says all. there are many more but you get the idea .

Jeff Saunders · Mar 18, 2023

Chaleb said:
That verse came from a horrible bible version apparently.

It should say....."but that all should come to repentance".

Look at what you's says......"come to life"?

That is not even connected to "repentance.."

"come to life" is what a seed does when you plant it and water it and give it some sunshine.
Is that "come to repentance". ????

what happens when one repents , they pass from death to life !

Jeff Saunders · Mar 18, 2023

Der Alte said:
Do you believe Jesus when He said "Not everyone will enter the kingdom of heaven?"

Matthew 7:21-23
(21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Neither the Father nor Jesus, themselves, ever said that all mankind will enter the kingdom of heaven.
In this passage Jesus says, "Not every one shall enter into the kingdom of heaven." Then He says, "Many," NOT a few will say to Him "In that day" i.e. the day of judgement "Lord, Lord, have we not ...in thy name done many wonderful works? Then Jesus will tell them, "I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity." When Jesus says never He means never not some day by and by.

God works in ages and what you quoted is true for this age, but in the next age things are different that is when everything will be completed and then the scripture will be proved correct that says " every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is lord" and you know the Greek check out the Greek wording it is a joyful agreement not a forced confession. Ask yourself how else will as it says in 1Cor 15 " vs 26the last enemy to be conquered is death... vs28 so that God will be all in all" how will God be all in all if most of his creation is in an eternal torcher chamber ?

Chaleb · Mar 18, 2023

Jeff Saunders said:
why would John the baptizer say of Jesus "Look ! The Lamb of God , who takes away the sin of the world" if Jesus was just the potential savior? J

Where did you get "potential savior"?

Jesus was never the 'Potential" savior.
He is God in human flesh born of a Virgin, the Bread of Life, come down from heaven......who was sent to the Cross as THE Savior.

John 14:6

The only time He became the "Potential" was when He asked God to Let the Cross pass from him, (The Cup)...if Possible".
As Jesus had the FREE WILL choice not to go to the Cross, or He would not have asked God that question.
Christ Chose the Cross, for you and me.

Jeff Saunders · Mar 18, 2023

Chaleb said:
Where did you get "potential savior"?

Jesus was never the 'Potential" savior.
He is God in human flesh born of a Virgin, the Bread of Life, come down from heaven......who was sent to the Cross as THE Savior.

John 14:6

The only time He became the "Potential" was when He asked God to Let the Cross pass from him, (The Cup)...if Possible".
As Jesus had the FREE WILL choice not to go to the Cross, or He would not have asked God that question.
Christ Chose the Cross, for you and me.

if Jesus does not save all he is not the savior of the world he is only a potential savior.

Chaleb · Mar 18, 2023

Jeff Saunders said:
what happens when one repents , they pass from death to life !

Agreed.

The born again are "translated from Darkness to Light".......that is to pass from death to Life.
Its to be born again.
Now get a bible that says all that...just like that....., vs that confused mess you posted.

Chaleb · Mar 18, 2023

Jeff Saunders said:
if Jesus does not save all he is not the savior of the world he is only a potential savior.

Jesus is the universal offer of Salvation.
God offers the Cross as Salvation to everyone, for 2000 yrs.

John 3:16-17

Not everyone will go and receive the Offer

Notice.

John 3:36

Chaleb · Mar 18, 2023

Jeff Saunders said:
how will God be all in all if most of his creation is in an eternal torcher chamber ?

There are no born again in Hell.

There are no Christ rejectors, (never born again) in Heaven.

Jesus said...>"you must be born again"..

If you die, never being born again, you are this... as you die.

John3:36

Jeff Saunders · Mar 18, 2023

Chaleb said:
Jesus is the universal offer of Salvation.
God offers the Cross as Salvation to everyone, for 2000 yrs.

John 3:16-17

Not everyone will go and receive the Offer

Notice.

John 3:36

so mans will is greater than Gods will ? If you believe that you have a weak God. My God is so powerful no will can trump his not mans or satans.

Chaleb · Mar 18, 2023

Jeff Saunders said:
so mans will is greater than Gods will ?

God created us with Free Will.

Jesus went to the Cross, based on Free Will.

So, we have the choice to believe or not.

Heaven and Hell are eternal destinations, regarding our spirit.
Each person chooses which destination, is going to be their's after they die.
How?

"all that believe in Jesus shall be saved". = Heaven

or

John 3:36 for the unbelievers.

God HONORS your free will.
So, choose wisely where you want to go after you die, because GOD will honor your choice for as long as He lives

Believe it.

Towards a biblical view of universalism

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