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Suffering - which completes Christ's work.

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Xeno.of.athens

Xeno.of.athens

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Colossians 1:24 Even as I write, I am glad of my sufferings on your behalf, as, in this mortal frame of mine, I help to pay off the debt which the afflictions of Christ still leave to be paid, for the sake of his body, the Church.✻

✻ ‘The afflictions of Christ’ have been understood by some commentators as being those which he suffers in his members, i.e. the Church (cf. Ac. 9.4), and particularly in St Paul himself. But the Greek verb shews that St Paul only represents himself as taking a share in the afflictions here referred to; and probably the metaphor is that of a poor man contributing to pay off a sum which a richer man has paid in advance. Thus the obvious meaning is that Christ’s sufferings, although fully satisfactory on behalf of our sins, leave us under a debt of honour, as it were, to repay them by sufferings of our own.​
 
BobRyan

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So then:
1. Not at all a reference to a "spiritual bank of excess suffering" applied to the suffering owed by the dead in purgatory. I guess a lot of us see that.
2. Not at all a reference of the idea that the saints "suffered more than their own sins demand" - since obviously Christ's blood covers the torment and suffering they owe for sin -- ie the second death of Rev 20.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

Xeno.of.athens

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BobRyan said:
So then:
1. Not at all a reference to a "spiritual bank of excess suffering" applied to the suffering owed by the dead in purgatory. I guess a lot of us see that.
Click to expand...
This "spiritual bank" appears to be a figment of your own imagination, BobRyan.
BobRyan said:
2. Not at all a reference of the idea that the saints "suffered more than their own sins demand" - since obviously Christ's blood covers the torment and suffering they owe for sin -- ie the second death of Rev 20.
Click to expand...
This too is much more the product of your own imagination than it is a product of Catholic Church teaching.
 
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timothyu

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When one repents of the traditional ways of human behaviour, the world of man turns against that person for rejecting the system. The culture of the Kingdom is a counter culture to the culture of the world man has made in our own image. It creates hardships for those bucking the establishment. Jesus said to care for those who would be our enemies to show we are a threat to the system but not to fellow man.
 
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Unqualified

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If you don’t mind I’d like to say a little here. There is suffering in the world even by Christians. By everybody really. There is work, accidents, illness, emotional pain, etc. Here Paul gives us a useful place for our suffering. He gives it meaning, so that we shouldn’t try to escape it. It is part of our cross which we bear daily. It’s part of our being refined in the fire. Our faith like gold. It builds character. It’s not something strange we are experiencing. It’s part of the daily grind. This is how I begin to understand it using more of the Bible. It is good for us to suffer for Christ. We may not like it but accepting it as a part of our life in Christ and rolling with the punches is helpful. Jesus loves you, He had to suffer. You can’t insulate yourself with money. You can identify more with Christ when suffering.

it part of accepting the unacceptable that Christians so often have to do. Jesus suffered rejection we do too.
Some of us may be tortured in the last days like the church at Smyrna. We don’t want to deny Christ! They were in the first century. During the inquisitions too. Now in Muslim countries. Can you imagine 6 million Christians were killed in Rome, crucified, turned into torches and whatever else they could think of. If the first century had to suffer, maybe we do too. Just some thoughts. Try to be ready. And we whine about life in Americas.
 
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eleos1954

eleos1954

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Xeno.of.athens said:
This "spiritual bank" appears to be a figment of your own imagination, BobRyan.

This too is much more the product of your own imagination than it is a product of Catholic Church teaching.
Click to expand...
It is true the Catholic belief is that additional suffering is required in a place they call purgatory .... and then also claim this suffering can by alienated (lessened) by works .... the works of others being applied to them or even purchased through indulgences.

(10) The Church, by the authorization of Christ, and through the communion of saints, can draw from the one treasury of merit and satisfaction to reduce or remove the debt of temporal punishment for anyone united to the Body through sanctifying grace. And that is just what an indulgence is:

An indulgence is a remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sins whose guilt has already been forgiven, which the faithful Christian who is duly disposed gains under certain prescribed conditions through the action of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.7
Click to expand...
Jesus ALONE paid all debt entirely .... it's not what a "church" does .... the authority is Jesus .... not any earthly organized church system. Those in Christ are His church ..... once again ..... beliefs that are taking away from the divinity and complete lordship of Jesus. There is no
replacement of the authority of Christ .... period. Christ alone.

Ephesians 2:8-9​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:8​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 Peter 3:18​

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

20 Bible Verses about All Authority Has Been Given To Jesus

Matthew 28:18

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Jesus has ALL authority.
 
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Xeno.of.athens

Xeno.of.athens

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.
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eleos1954 said:
It is true the Catholic belief is that additional suffering is required in a place they call purgatory .... and then also claim this suffering can by alienated (lessened) by works .... the works of others being applied to them or even purchased through indulgences.

(10) The Church, by the authorization of Christ, and through the communion of saints, can draw from the one treasury of merit and satisfaction to reduce or remove the debt of temporal punishment for anyone united to the Body through sanctifying grace. And that is just what an indulgence is:


Jesus ALONE paid all debt entirely .... it's not what a "church" does .... the authority is Jesus .... not any earthly organized church system. Those in Christ are His church ..... once again ..... beliefs that are taking away from the divinity and complete lordship of Jesus. There is no
replacement of the authority of Christ .... period. Christ alone.

Ephesians 2:8-9​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Ephesians 2:8​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 Peter 3:18​

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,

20 Bible Verses about All Authority Has Been Given To Jesus

Matthew 28:18

And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.

Jesus has ALL authority.
Click to expand...
I'd reply to all this except that none of it is relevant.
 
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