Trump polls and Fox ratings up but the battle against Trump's Dishonesty is working

perplexed · Mar 11, 2023

6 years ago I was shocked Trump blatantly claimed he won the popular vote by millions of votes and Trump
supporters called anyone who doubted this "brainwashed" and they were proud of this behavior

The same thing happened two years ago with Sidney Powelll.

Recent events have not actually damaged Trump or Fox they seemed to have helped, but there does seem to be
change in Trump supporters, in some cases they now refuse to engage instead of discussing how Brainwashed anyone that criticizes Trump must be

HTacianas · Mar 11, 2023

perplexed said:
6 years ago I was shocked Trump blatantly claimed he won the popular vote by millions of votes and Trump
supporters called anyone who doubted this "brainwashed" and they were proud of this behavior

The same thing happened two years ago with Sidney Powelll.

Recent events have not actually damaged Trump or Fox they seemed to have helped, but there does seem to be
change in Trump supporters, in some cases they now refuse to engage instead of discussing how Brainwashed anyone that criticizes Trump must be

Now that we've resolved that, what do we do about everyone else?

perplexed · Mar 11, 2023

HTacianas said:
Now that we've resolved that, what do we do about everyone else?

can you give me a particular example

HTacianas · Mar 11, 2023

perplexed said:
can you give me a particular example

The "Russia collusion" hoax that we were all subjected to for years.

perplexed · Mar 11, 2023

HTacianas said:
The "Russia collusion" hoax that we were all subjected to for years.

I think that problem has been fixed as well, Can you give a specific claim I can check

Fantine · Mar 11, 2023

In my city, the conservative extremists are attempting to change the voting system to paper ballots. There is a bill in our State Senate allowing for paper ballots.

We're not talking about voters voting on a touchscreen and receiving a paper ballot receipt of their voting transaction. We are talking about only paper. Imagine how long the residents in inner city Atlanta, Miami, and other cities with large minority populations would have to wait if balloting was on paper? Or how long it might take an elderly person or an immigrant to navigate the forms? How many people would be disenfranchised? (Oops, I forgot, that's the obvious point.)

Not to mention how much monkeying around could be done by the "counters" of paper ballots, especially in areas with one party control. What a nightmare.

perplexed · Mar 11, 2023

HTacianas said:
The "Russia collusion" hoax that we were all subjected to for years.

I have done some checking, I could not find cases where someone made a reasonable argument against the claim that trump colluded with Russia and was dismissed as brainwashed.

HTacianas · Mar 11, 2023

perplexed said:
I have done some checking, I could not find cases where someone made a reasonable argument against the claim that trump colluded with Russia and was dismissed as brainwashed.

I don't think you're following the logic of the discussion. I'll put it like this: Now that the battle against Trump's dishonesty is working, what do we do about all the other dishonesty?

perplexed · Mar 11, 2023

HTacianas said:
I don't think you're following the logic of the discussion. I'll put it like this: Now that the battle against Trump's dishonesty is working, what do we do about all the other dishonesty?

The battle against the other dishonesty is pretty easy, you don't get deranged pushback when you make reasonable arguments.

USincognito · Mar 12, 2023

HTacianas said:
The "Russia collusion" hoax that we were all subjected to for years.

There was no "Russia collision 'hoax'". Did you mean to demonstrate the point of the OP?

perplexed · Mar 12, 2023

USincognito said:
There was no "Russia collision 'hoax'". Did you mean to demonstrate the point of the OP?

It is a commonly held belief among Trump supporters that the evil liberals have brainwashed people into thinking that there evidence that Trump promised to serve the Russian government in return for Russia using bots to trick people into voting for him on social media.

NxNW · Mar 12, 2023

HTacianas said:
The "Russia collusion" hoax that we were all subjected to for years.

There was no Russia collusion hoax.

inquiring mind · Mar 12, 2023

Fantine said:
In my city, the conservative extremists are attempting to change the voting system to paper ballots. There is a bill in our State Senate allowing for paper ballots.

We're not talking about voters voting on a touchscreen and receiving a paper ballot receipt of their voting transaction. We are talking about only paper. Imagine how long the residents in inner city Atlanta, Miami, and other cities with large minority populations would have to wait if balloting was on paper? Or how long it might take an elderly person or an immigrant to navigate the forms? How many people would be disenfranchised? (Oops, I forgot, that's the obvious point.)

Not to mention how much monkeying around could be done by the "counters" of paper ballots, especially in areas with one party control. What a nightmare.

You can google investigations and reports about the vulnerabilities and the ability to 'monkey around' with electronic voting machines too. Some European countries, and elsewhere I believe, banned them for that reason. Personally, I agree with paper ballots and showing up to vote (except in certain cases).

iluvatar5150 · Mar 12, 2023

Fantine said:
In my city, the conservative extremists are attempting to change the voting system to paper ballots. There is a bill in our State Senate allowing for paper ballots.

We're not talking about voters voting on a touchscreen and receiving a paper ballot receipt of their voting transaction. We are talking about only paper. Imagine how long the residents in inner city Atlanta, Miami, and other cities with large minority populations would have to wait if balloting was on paper? Or how long it might take an elderly person or an immigrant to navigate the forms? How many people would be disenfranchised? (Oops, I forgot, that's the obvious point.)

Not to mention how much monkeying around could be done by the "counters" of paper ballots, especially in areas with one party control. What a nightmare.

Paper ballots won them the 2000 election. Why mess with success?

inquiring mind · Mar 12, 2023

iluvatar5150 said:
Paper ballots won them the 2000 election. Why mess with success?

I agree, look where we’re at with smorgasbord voting.

Fantine · Mar 12, 2023

inquiring mind said:
You can google investigations and reports about the vulnerabilities and the ability to 'monkey around' with electronic voting machines too. Some European countries, and elsewhere I believe, banned them for that reason. Personally, I agree with paper ballots and showing up to vote (except in certain cases).

The best solution seems to be electronic voting with a paper receipt given to the voter. The voter can check while there and make sure his choices were recorded correctly. If there has to be a recount, each individual vote can be printed and available for counting.

I guess you'd call it hybrid.

I don't think that every vote needs to be hand counted. I think that a comparison could be made by hand counting perhaps 20% of the votes and compared to the electronic count of 20% of the votes, and if the two match, it can be assumed that the other 80% will be accurate as well (and usually they are.)

One of the biggest problems with paper counting is that the longer it takes to determine the winner, the more a losing demagogue, like our former president, can take his case to the presses, and to rallies, and to TV, and to the internet, and eventually get his supporters to commit crimes to subvert democracy (whether that is the intent or not.)

USincognito · Mar 12, 2023

inquiring mind said:
I agree, look where we’re at with smorgasbord voting.

More people having easier access to their right to vote? Are you saying that's a bad thing?

inquiring mind · Mar 12, 2023

USincognito said:
More people having easier access to their right to vote? Are you saying that's a bad thing?

I’m saying if people have a legitimate problem with their ability to get to the polls on election day, then they need to get an absentee ballot. If they don’t care enough otherwise to make a trip to the polls, then they’re not very interested and it’s probably only someone else’s desire for their vote that gets them to anyway. And, I still think paper ballots are best… keep everything out in the open where both party reps can see it.

HTacianas · Mar 12, 2023

NxNW said:
There was no Russia collusion hoax.

So what was all that hubbub in the news we heard so much about.

perplexed · Mar 12, 2023

HTacianas said:
So what was all that hubbub in the news we heard so much about.

Lots of different things you should be specific

Trump polls and Fox ratings up but the battle against Trump's Dishonesty is working

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