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Calvinism vs Arminianism. Free Will, did we choose God or did God choose us?

d taylor

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Why do people get so caught up into these divisions and labels. Jesus came and took away the sin of the world, taking away the sin that separates man from God. Now all a person needs to do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life is to believe that Jesus is The Messiah, the resurrection and the life, to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

But this most important eternal life truth, gets set aside. So people can prop up their theological beliefs.

How many times has this been a subject of discussion/debate in this and other online sites and not one times has any of this improved on God's simple and perfect message of the free gift of eternal life.
 
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Hotschott90

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Why do people get so caught up into these divisions and labels. Jesus came and took away the sin of the world, taking away the sin that separates man from God. Now all a person needs to do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life is to believe that Jesus is The Messiah, the resurrection and the life, to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

But this most important eternal life truth, gets set aside. So people can prop up their theological beliefs.

How many times has this been a subject of discussion/debate in this and other online sites and not one times has any of this improved on God's simple and perfect message of the free gift of eternal life.
I agree, and as I mentioned, this has nothing to do with whether a person is saved or not. But this is a discussion forum lol. It’s meant for all topics. And from these topics I can hopefully learn a bit more on this subject. I thought that’s why this site exists
 
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disciple Clint

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I have my thoughts on this. Many churches are struggling with this today. Although neither determines your salvation, it’s a hot topic today. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this topic, please be kind. Thanks!
It has been a hot topic for almost 1000 years and it will continue to be a hot topic and you are correct getting the answer right will not make a bit of difference to our salvation. It has been hotly debated on this site numerous times.
 
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Hotschott90

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It has been a hot topic for almost 1000 years and it will continue to be a hot topic and you are correct getting the answer right will not make a bit of difference to our salvation. It has been hotly debated on this site numerous times.
Forgive me, I am brand new to this site. I am just looking to see other viewpoints to maybe gain and share knowledge.
 
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disciple Clint

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Forgive me, I am brand new to this site. I am just looking to see other viewpoints to maybe gain and share knowledge.
I did not intend to be critical of you, you can discuss any topic you like on here and I encourage you to ask questions there are several people on here who are very knowledgeable and helpful, welcome to the site.
 
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Hotschott90

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I did not intend to be critical of you, you can discuss any topic you like on here and I encourage you to ask questions there are several people on here who are very knowledgeable and helpful, welcome to the site.
Did I post this to the wrong forum? Is there a specific one I need to be posting this to? Still trying to learn the site
 
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Strong in Him

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I have my thoughts on this. Many churches are struggling with this today. Although neither determines your salvation, it’s a hot topic today. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this topic, please be kind. Thanks!
God created everyone.
I do not believe he chose, or appointed, only a few of those he created to know him. That would mean that he created some people in his image, decided beforehand that they were never going to know him, and then punished them for not knowing him.
 
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d taylor

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I agree, and as I mentioned, this has nothing to do with whether a person is saved or not. But this is a discussion forum lol. It’s meant for all topics. And from these topics I can hopefully learn a bit more on this subject. I thought that’s why this site exists
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Well what you may learn, is how each side only interprets The Bible to fit their beliefs, to support their theology.
 
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Diamond72

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I’d like to hear your thoughts on this topic
I believe our name is written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world.

Psalm 69:28 May they be blotted out of the Book of Life

Revelation 3:5 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The invitation is open to whosoever is willing.

Revelation 22:17 The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.
 
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zoidar

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I have my thoughts on this. Many churches are struggling with this today. Although neither determines your salvation, it’s a hot topic today. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this topic, please be kind. Thanks!
Some say Scripture deals with this topic. I would say it doesn't. It's not something that has been a focus point by the authors of the Bible. However the Bible deals with the consequence of choice, but concering free will we can find support for both positions in Scripture, if we look for it.
 
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eleos1954

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I have my thoughts on this. Many churches are struggling with this today. Although neither determines your salvation, it’s a hot topic today. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this topic, please be kind. Thanks!
It's understanding about God's foreknowledge .... He knows what choices people will make but He don't make their choices for them. Also, God's sovereignty ... He is indeed sovereign, but chooses to manifest His sovereignty through the power of Love and truth. You can't have true love without choice ..... love can not be forced .... else it's not love.
 
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Chaleb

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I have my thoughts on this. Many churches are struggling with this today. Although neither determines your salvation, it’s a hot topic today. I’d like to hear your thoughts on this topic, please be kind. Thanks!


"The work of God is that you BELIEVE, on Jesus, whom God sent".

Jesus said..>"All that believe in me, i give unto you eternal live and you shall never perish"..

"faith is counted as Righteousness"...

So, if God requires faith, If God requires you to Believe, and "without faith its impossible to please God".....then that is what you do, not what God does for you.
He would not require what He is going to Provide.

Also, if God "chose some to believe" then sent others to the 2nd Death .... John 3:36.........for Christ rejection......YET< it was God who caused you not to believe, or would not allow it? Then How is God just to blame you for what He causes?
How could God send you to the 2nd Death, if God wont allow you to believe in Jesus, or as the Calvinist's Teach....Wont choose you, and you still get the BLAME? "Christ Rejector"...."unpardonable sin".

So, that theology, denies Logic, common sense, and worst of all erases "God is Love" as no Loving God is going to choose you to go to hell, and then eteranlly judge you as a Christ Rejector as the REASON, when you were denied the opportunity to believe.

Jesus said....>"if i be lifted up, i will draw ALL"....to me.......so that means that God allows all to believe.
 
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setst777

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Well what you may learn, is how each side only interprets The Bible to fit their beliefs, to support their theology.
My hope and prayer is that by objectively discussing doctrine, and the Scriptures, with others, I may come to understand different views, being open to their thoughts and ideas, which all help to not only study the Scriptures further to see if the views of others are true or not, but then help others to look at the context of the Scriptures more carefully, especially if I feel they are adding to or reinterpreting verses that, if they had read in context, then the Scriptures themselves plainly reveal and teach what is meant.

Romans 16:25-27 (NIV) 25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith — 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Ephesians 3:4-6 (NIV) 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s {{{holy apostles and prophets}}}. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

2 Corinthians 1:13 (NIV) 13 For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand.

1 Corinthians 4:6 (NIV) 6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.”
 
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setst777

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Some say Scripture deals with this topic. I would say it doesn't. It's not something that has been a focus point by the authors of the Bible. However the Bible deals with the consequence of choice, but concering free will we can find support for both positions in Scripture, if we look for it.
I wonder why so many warnings, rebukes, commands, admonitions exist throughout the NT Scriptures, from Matthew to Revelations, to remain firm in the faith to be saved? That seems to indicate to me free will and choice that God in Christ righteously holds each person accountable on Judgment Day.

Why is there not one Scripture that states that God guarantees anyone's faith but many Scriptures that teach that God's promises and guarantees for eternal life is by faith and remaining in the faith?
 
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d taylor

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I wonder why so many warnings, rebukes, commands, admonitions exist throughout the NT Scriptures, from Matthew to Revelations, to remain firm in the faith to be saved? That seems to indicate to me free will and choice that God in Christ righteously holds each person accountable on Judgment Day.

Why is there not one Scripture that states that God guarantees anyone's faith but many Scriptures that teach that God's promises and guarantees for eternal life is by faith and remaining in the faith?
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The salvation connected to perseverance, is a physical salvation from an early physical death. Either from judgment by God on a disobedient evil believer (ananias and sapphira) or from satanic attacks.

A believer becomes a born again child of God, who can never lose the free gift of Eternal Life, they received from God at the moment of faith in Jesus. They cross over from death to life never to cross back over to death again.

God promises the believer eternal security
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Eternal Security in John’s Gospel: Nine Proofs – Grace Evangelical Society

Five Differences Between Perseverance of the Saints and Eternal Security – Grace Evangelical Society
 
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Chaleb

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Why is there not one Scripture that states that God guarantees anyone's faith


I'll give you 3 verses that "guarantee you are saved, for eternity" .. if you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious.

Jesus said...."you must be born again".....to have the guarantee of eternal life.


1.) Jesus said..."all that BELIEVE in me......I give unto them ETERNAL Life, and they shall NEVER Perish".

"never perish" means that you wont ever lose your Salvation.

2.) "God who began Salvation in the born again.... will HIMSELF be FAITHFUL to complete it".

See that? God is FAITHFUL to complete your Salvation, and that makes sense as God started it with The Cross and ends it by giving all the born again a new body and "conforming you into the image of Christ""" after you die, or after you are Raptured.

3. ""Jesus is the author and finisher/perfector of your Faith".

See that?
That is God, the Son, as the author of your faith and the finisher/perfector of your Faith"


So, you have now read that if you are BORN AGAIN, you can "never perish'.....and "God is faithful to complete your Salvation", and Jesus "Finishes your Faith".

What is all that? That is The TRUTH, and you need to believe it.

That is God's Grace. That is God's '"GIFT of Salvation"..... That is your=
REDEMPTION.
 
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Hotschott90

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I'll give you 3 verses that "guarantee you are saved, for eternity" .. if you are born again, and not just water baptized and religious.

Jesus said...."you must be born again".....to have the guarantee of eternal life.


1.) Jesus said..."all that BELIEVE in me......I give unto them ETERNAL Life, and they shall NEVER Perish".

"never perish" means that you wont ever lose your Salvation.

2.) "God who began Salvation in the born again.... will HIMSELF be FAITHFUL to complete it".

See that? God is FAITHFUL to complete your Salvation, and that makes sense as God started it with The Cross and ends it by giving all the born again a new body and "conforming you into the image of Christ""" after you die, or after you are Raptured.

3. ""Jesus is the author and finisher/perfector of your Faith".

See that?
That is God, the Son, as the author of your faith and the finisher/perfector of your Faith"


So, you have now read that if you are BORN AGAIN, you can "never perish'.....and "God is faithful to complete your Salvation", and Jesus "Finishes your Faith".

What is all that? That is The TRUTH, and you need to believe it.

That is God's Grace. That is God's '"GIFT of Salvation"..... That is your=
REDEMPTION.
Agreed. My favorite is Ephesians 1:13.
“In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
 
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