Council halts Christian prayer after legal warning.

FutureAndAHope · Mar 8, 2023

Australia has always had Christain prayers at the start of every government meeting, asking for God's direction and guidance. It looks like they no longer want or need God.

MSN

Yttrium · Mar 8, 2023

Doesn't Australia have places for organized religious worship? Like, you know, churches?

Nithavela · Mar 8, 2023

On the plus side, next time there's a wildfire or flooding in Australia, people have something to blame it on.

FutureAndAHope · Mar 8, 2023

Yttrium said:
Doesn't Australia have places for organized religious worship? Like, you know, churches?

Why don't you visit one? It might give you some eternal perspective.

FutureAndAHope · Mar 8, 2023

Nithavela said:
On the plus side, next time there's a wildfire or flooding in Australia, people have something to blame it on.

God's wrath will eventually be poured out on sin. We all should be forsaking it.

FutureAndAHope · Mar 8, 2023

God is the unseen hand at every meeting

Once invited but now fleeting

They say He is an offense to people

Yet life is contained in His steeple

God is Love that is clear

So He will not be any less near

Yet I hope you anger Him not

For He might not forgive your spot

He might be forced to stay outside

But you my child with Him abide.

Occams Barber · Mar 8, 2023

FutureAndAHope said:
Australia has always had Christain prayers at the start of every government meeting, asking for God's direction and guidance. It looks like they no longer want or need God.

MSN

In a country where less than half the population (43.9%) identifies as Christian, it's highly inappropriate to force people to participate in a public Christian ritual.

Christianity is not council business.

OB

FutureAndAHope · Mar 8, 2023

Occams Barber said:
In a country where less than half the population (43.9%) identifies as Christian, it's highly inappropriate to force people to participate in a public Christian ritual.

Christianity is not council business.

OB

You are going to be involved in a Christian ritual on the day you die. People better get accustomed to it in this life.

Rev 20:11-15 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Occams Barber · Mar 8, 2023

FutureAndAHope said:
You are going to be involved in a Christian ritual on the day you die. People better get accustomed to it in this life.

Rev 20:11-15 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This is a typical Christian comment where threats of hell replace civilised conversation. You need to realise that these threats have no meaning for a non-believer.

Christianity can be a nasty religion.

OB

durangodawood · Mar 8, 2023

FutureAndAHope said:
You are going to be involved in a Christian ritual on the day you die. People better get accustomed to it in this life.....

Because I believe X you better start doing X.

Some might call that reasoning "interesting".

Bradskii · Mar 8, 2023

FutureAndAHope said:
It looks like they no longer want or need God.

It's left to the individual. If a councillor thought he or she needed divine guidance to sort out a sewage problem or maybe banning dogs from local parks then he or she is perfectly free to ask for it. As is someone who would prefer to examine the entrails of a goat or check their astrology charts.

I am free to vote for them as I see their suitability for the work they do. Whatever their beliefs.

Hank77 · Mar 8, 2023

FutureAndAHope said:
Australia has always had Christain prayers at the start of every government meeting, asking for God's direction and guidance.

I think a compromise might be in order.
Ask for a moment of silence to organize thoughts and pray for guidance if so inclined.

public hermit · Mar 8, 2023

I'm all for prayer in government settings if it includes prayers commensurate with the various faiths of the constituents. If the body of the citizenry includes Muslims, then there should be prayers to Allah. The Buddhists, Bahai, Hindus, Sikhs, Rastafarians, etc., should all have their turn to express their religion in whatever way they see fit in a government setting. If that is not acceptable, then no one prays or dances or whatever, and government business begins with a good old secular call to order. The idea that one religion gets to flaunt its beliefs in the face of a religiously heterogeneous citizenry is absurd, provocative, and oppressive.

FutureAndAHope · Mar 8, 2023

public hermit said:
I'm all for prayer in government settings if it includes prayers commensurate with the various faiths of the constituents. If the body of the citizenry includes Muslims, then there should be prayers to Allah. The Buddhists, Bahai, Hindus, Sikhs, Rastafarians, etc., should all have their turn to express their religion in whatever way they see fit in a government setting. If that is not acceptable, then no one prays or dances or whatever, and government business begins with a good old secular call to order. The idea that one religion gets to flaunt its beliefs in the face of a religiously heterogeneous citizenry is absurd, provocative, and oppressive.

So the true God, getting His rightful place in society is oppressive? You want a whole heap of prayers to devils? That is worldly nonsense.

Bradskii · Mar 8, 2023

FutureAndAHope said:
So the true God, getting His rightful place in society is oppressive? You want a whole heap of prayers to devils? That is worldly nonsense.

I would, at the VERY least, want to see some respect shown to people who have different religious beliefs. In fact, I expect it. In actual fact, I would demand it. Not to show it would be considered extremely un-Australian.

Two years ago there were some changes to the citizen test:

Acting Immigration Minister Alan Tudge is due to introduce the changes on Thursday to coincide with Australian Citizenship Day, as more than 100 citizenship ceremonies will take place across the country.

“Our Australian values are important. They have helped shape our country and they are the reason why so many people want to become Australian citizens,” Mr Tudge told News Corp publications.

“The updated citizenship test will have new and more meaningful questions that require potential citizens to understand and commit to our values like freedom of speech, mutual respect, equality of opportunity, the importance of democracy and the rule of law.”

See that bit about mutual respect? Declaring other people's prayers to their god(s) as 'prayers to devils' would actually and rightly exclude someone from citizenship.

Yttrium · Mar 8, 2023

Well, it's nice to see Australia moving more towards separation of church and state. Religion should be respected by the state, and not conducted by the state.

Occams Barber · Mar 8, 2023

FutureAndAHope said:
So the true God, getting His rightful place in society is oppressive? You want a whole heap of prayers to devils? That is worldly nonsense.

You're effectively advocating a theocracy.

Do you believe in equality?

If you do, you'd accept that a society of equals doesn't place the rights of one group above the rights of others. This includes religious beliefs. You may disagree with the beliefs of others, but you have no right to expect that your religion must be given primacy over other beliefs.

OB

FireDragon76 · Mar 8, 2023

FutureAndAHope said:
So the true God, getting His rightful place in society is oppressive? You want a whole heap of prayers to devils? That is worldly nonsense.

Peter told Jesus to reject the Cross, and was rebuked, but you are basically advocating the same sort of thing: "yes" to power and dominance, "no" to suffering. This is not Jesus' way. What is "worldly" here is your notion of imposing ones religion or ideology upon others.

God's rightful place is in the hands of people helping the poor, the demoralized, and the marginalized. It's not imposing a religious theocracy on society.

FutureAndAHope said:
u are going to be involved in a Christian ritual on the day you die. People better get accustomed to it in this life.

Rev 20:11-15 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

This sort of rhetoric is really quite ugly. This isn't how a person should share the Gospel with somebody.

FutureAndAHope · Mar 8, 2023

FireDragon76 said:
Peter told Jesus to reject the Cross, and was rebuked, but you are basically advocating the same sort of thing: "yes" to power and dominance, "no" to suffering. This is not Jesus' way. What is "worldly" here is your notion of imposing ones religion or ideology upon others.

God's rightful place is in the hands of people helping the poor, the demoralized, and the marginalized. It's not imposing a religious theocracy on society.

This sort of rhetoric is really quite ugly. This isn't how a person should share the Gospel with somebody.

Men and women had to fight for and die for our Australian society to accept Christianity. Through inquisitions, and many other sufferings. Yet you try to use Jesus suffering to justify its removal from our society.

As for the ugly sharing of the gospel as you call it. It is truth, one day every person will stand before God, and I am sure none of these worldly arguments will be accepted by His court. I really don't care what you think. I am a little angry today. Angry with people who compromise what Jesus said, angry with people who use human login not Godly reasoning.

FireDragon76 · Mar 8, 2023

FutureAndAHope said:
Men and women had to fight for and die for our Australian society to accept Christianity. Through inquisitions, and many other sufferings. Yet you try to use Jesus suffering to justify its removal from our society.

As for the ugly sharing of the gospel as you call it. It is truth, one day every person will stand before God, and I am sure none of these worldly arguments will be accepted by His court. I really don't care what you think. I am a little angry today. Angry with people who compromise what Jesus said, angry with people who use human login not Godly reasoning.

I seriously doubt that Jesus Christ would countenance such anger.

St. Paul said, that if it is possible, live in peace with everyone. Peace is the opposite of anger.

Council halts Christian prayer after legal warning.

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