Is there a chance that Steve Jobs found Christ before he died?

There’s a good chance he probably saw something or felt something that introduced him to God. Some times it takes our last breaths to come to realization.

My grandmother on my dad’s side asked for forgiveness right the minute before she died. She was awful to my mother, little brother and me.

Such thing can happen.

And Oscar Wilde.

Jobs was an adopted child (he was actually Syrian-American), he was baptized and raised as a Lutheran (LCMS), but he didn't like the answers his pastor gave him at age 13, when he asked why God allows people to starve in Africa. So he went looking for spirituality in psychedelics (he said taking LSD was one of the most important experiences of his life), and later in India, and got involved with Zen in California (he also frequently traveled to Japan, and he also bought alot of traditional Japanese art). Towards the end of his life, it's been reported he was asked about God, and he said sometimes he believed, sometimes he didn't. Jobs seemed to dislike religious dogma, moreso than actually disliking Jesus.

Jobs has been typed variously as an Enneagram type 8 or type 1 by different experts, a Perfectionist or a Challenger. In his life, he sometimes abandoned people, such as his pregnant girlfriend and his future daughter, in pursuit of his own personal ambition, and he was often cold or cruel to employees who disagreed with him or didn't meet his standards- both are detrimental obstacles to personal growth of the Challenger or Perfectionist. Overall he seems like he grew into a somewhat mature, individuated human being who lived out a great deal of his human potential, but with some serious flaws, and a decidedly mixed legacy. He created a highly problematic cultural mythos of the Silicon Valley tech guru or messiah, even while he encouraged a more humane assimilation of technology.

I think its noteworthy that the form of Lutheranism he was raised with was the dogmatic sort. He probably chaffed due to being a perfectionistic, strong-willed, and unconventional thinker in a religious environment that valued conventional ways of thinking and being (my own Lutheran congregation has alot of this type mentality, it's full of cops and teachers, and people generally are reluctant to engage in creative self-expression). From travelling in India and studying Zen, he learned to appreciate human intuition over instrumental reason and calculation. The focus on intuition, self-knowledge, and embodied experience probably did alot to ameliorate the darker aspects of his personality, and allowed himself to express the positive aspects of his personality to a greater degree.

Towards the end of his life, Jobs expressed alot of regrets about the abandonment of his family, particularly his daughter, and attempted to reconcile with her. On his deathbed, he did see some kind of vision. Anybody who has worked in a hospice can tell you that's not uncommon.

LW97Nils said:

He was a practicing Buddhist most of his life, however, shortly before his death, he began to talk about Christ. According to his sister, his last words were “Oh wow, oh, wow, oh wow” (in a positive sense). So what to do you think?

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Judgement is TOTALY up to Jesus .... and we are not privy to His judgement decisions on a personal level, and we shouldn't pre-suppose anything about who is or is not saved .... nor who will or will not be saved. Pure speculation if one does.

LW97Nils said:

He was a practicing Buddhist most of his life, however, shortly before his death, he began to talk about Christ. According to his sister, his last words were “Oh wow, oh, wow, oh wow” (in a positive sense). So what to do you think?

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God alone can know, but we should always put our hope and confidence in God, who is the giver of all good gifts. And to trust in the stubborn persistence of His love and mercy toward us sinners.

St. Isaac the Syrian wisely reminds us that God's grace is far greater than we can imagine and far more than what we ask for. Let us put our trust in Him, for ourselves certainly, but also that the God who lovingly and graciously meets us and saves us is the same God who desires all to be saved.

-CryptoLutheran

FireDragon76 said:

Towards the end of his life, Jobs expressed alot of regrets about the abandonment of his family, particularly his daughter, and attempted to reconcile with her. On his deathbed, he did see some kind of vision. Anybody who has worked in a hospice can tell you that's not uncommon.

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Those who were present at my great grandmother's death said that just before she went, she had a huge smile on her face and pointed to an empty space in the room, saying Jesus was there to take her home.

I'm not one to believe in near-death experiences, but I'd be hard pressed to deny that many experience something just before they go--and I want to believe that such gentle gifts of love right at the end are precious and real.

-CryptoLutheran

I don't have any idea what Steve Job's lot is now, but I remember a story my old pastor told me.

When he was still a young pastor (probably way back in the 1950s) he went to visit an elderly parishioner who was dying in hospital.

He described her as a saintly old soul.

Anyway at one point she just sat up in bed, pointed towards the wall / ceiling junction and said "I'm coming Jesus!" He said she almost seemed to be beaming. Then she fell back dead.

He said she looked just like a young girl, despite the fact she'd been gravely ill.

He remarked "It was a bit of an eye opener for a young pastor!"

Bob Crowley said:

I don't have any idea what Steve Job's lot is now, but I remember a story my old pastor told me.

When he was still a young pastor (probably way back in the 1950s) he went to visit an elderly parishioner who was dying in hospital.

He described her as a saintly old soul.

Anyway at one point she just sat up in bed, pointed towards the wall / ceiling junction and said "I'm coming Jesus!" He said she almost seemed to be beaming. Then she fell back dead.

He said she looked just like a young girl, despite the fact she'd been gravely ill.

He remarked "It was a bit of an eye opener for a young pastor!"

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There's a phenomenon called "terminal lucidity" that happens during the dying process. A person will seem to come out of the dying process briefly, sometimes for a few hours, before they suddenly collapse. A naive observer, like a doctor or family member, might assume they are getting better, but in fact they are close to death. During this period, the person is remarkably lucid. Again, it's something that people that work with the dying, such as hospice nurses, can recognize, however, it's scientifically unexplained.

One of the earliest, most spectacular cases of terminal lucidity actually happened in Weimar Germany in 1922. Anna Katherina Ehmer had been mentally disabled her whole life in a sanitarium, and lay dying at a relatively young age of 26, from tuberculosis. Doctors were astounded to observe that she began to sing hymns for thirty minutes, before she finally died.


It's also not uncommon for people, as they are dying, to be observed entering a liminal state where they are seemingly interacting with another world, such as with deceased relatives, friends, angels, etc. This wasn't discussed in the past due to taboos around death. Sometimes the liminal state can last for days, but often it's only for a brief period of time.

Personally I think they may well be "... interacting with another world, such as with deceased relatives, friends, angels etc. .."

I had an uncle who was dying of cancer. Coincidenally he was the same man who came to tell me my own father had died, earlier that same year (1979). I already "knew" my father was dead anyway as he turned up in my bedroom the night he died, four days before his body was found.

Anyway I visited the uncle as he lay dying hospital. He pointed towards the wall / ceiling junction and said "Grandma's over there!"

He somehow knew I was sceptical and he said "She is Robert, you know! I can see her!"

At the time I was an atheist, and I assumed he was hallucinating, but there was an eerie sense as though something else was there.

With hindsight, and in view of quite a number of spriitual experiences of my own, I think he may well have seen his grandmother.

I don't think the elderly woman in the pastor's case was experiencing "terminal lucidity". I think she could see something as she suddenly sat bolt upright in bed, reached out towards what she could see, cried out "I'm coming Jesus!" and then literally dropped dead.

And in the case you quoted in Weimar in Germany in 1922, I wonder why she suddenly started singing hymns?

Doctors were astounded to observe that she began to sing hymns for thirty minutes, before she finally died.

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There is a chance for anybody. Steve Jobs made great strides for humanity. It would be difficult for me to that that God will not reward him

I'd be more interested in "apparitions" of those who have died which are seen by those who are still alive, and have their full faculties about them.

I've often said that the night my father died he appeared in my room. We talked and argued before he disappeared with one almighty scream.

However I know of two more cases through personal contacts. There is a lady who lives in a retirement village not far from our home (at least I think she is still living there as the following exchange took place a bit over two years ago and she was 83 then). Somehow we got talking about my father's "apparition" and she said "That's interesting. I had the same experience".

Apparently her husband was dying in hospital from a brain embolism. He was only being kept alive by machines. The staff had already told her that they were going to turn the machines off the next day and if he couldn't breathe, he would die.

But she said that night something white sat on the foot of the bed. She was freaking out and wondered what the hell was going on. Then this thing spoke.

It was her husband. He apologised for the abusive way he had treated her. But she said what was more interesting was that her eldest daughter had the very same expreriene at about the same time. Of all the kids he'd been most abusive to her. So he apologised to her as well.

She didn't say much more about it and I assume her husband was mainly sent to apologise to her and the daughter.

Then there was the Catholic psychiatrist I used to go to (he retired last year). I suppose it was about three or four years ago at one of our sessions, which usually ended up being spiritual discussions, when he said "Something strange happened last weekend".

I asked him what it was. He said he'd been at mass at a Catholic Church when they announced one of the parishioners had died. But she'd also been one of his patients.

He said "She was in the church!" He could see her. He said she seemed to be trying to get his attention, but gave up after a while and moved across to the other side of the church. He thought she might have had family on that side.

I sometimes wonder if he was allowed to see that as a sort of proof of my own experience with my father, whom I claim turned up in my bedroom the night he died. We'd often talked about it and since he now had his own experience, he hardly had good grounds to not believe me.

In the case of myself and my father; the retiree, her daughter and her husband; and the psychiatrist and his former patient - we were all wide awake, not under the influence of palliative care drugs as an NDE patient might be, and we knew what we were seeing.

Of course there'll be those arrogant atheists who will insist "You were off your meds!" as though they know our minds better than we do. That's just sheer arrogance - nothing else.

I wonder how many similar stories there are in the general community? I'll bet it's a lot!!

Bob Crowley said:

I'd be more interested in "apparitions" of those who have died which are seen by those who are still alive, and have their full faculties about them.

I've often said that the night my father died he appeared in my room. We talked and argued before he disappeared with one almighty scream.

However I know of two more cases through personal contacts. There is a lady who lives in a retirement village not far from our home (at least I think she is still living there as the following exchange took place a bit over two years ago and she was 83 then). Somehow we got talking about my father's "apparition" and she said "That's interesting. I had the same experience".

Apparently her husband was dying in hospital from a brain embolism. He was only being kept alive by machines. The staff had already told her that they were going to turn the machines off the next day and if he couldn't breathe, he would die.

But she said that night something white sat on the foot of the bed. She was freaking out and wondered what the hell was going on. Then this thing spoke.

It was her husband. He apologised for the abusive way he had treated her. But she said what was more interesting was that her eldest daughter had the very same expreriene at about the same time. Of all the kids he'd been most abusive to her. So he apologised to her as well.

She didn't say much more about it and I assume her husband was mainly sent to apologise to her and the daughter.

Then there was the Catholic psychiatrist I used to go to (he retired last year). I suppose it was about three or four years ago at one of our sessions, which usually ended up being spiritual discussions, when he said "Something strange happened last weekend".

I asked him what it was. He said he'd been at mass at a Catholic Church when they announced one of the parishioners had died. But she'd also been one of his patients.

He said "She was in the church!" He could see her. He said she seemed to be trying to get his attention, but gave up after a while and moved across to the other side of the church. He thought she might have had family on that side.

I sometimes wonder if he was allowed to see that as a sort of proof of my own experience with my father, whom I claim turned up in my bedroom the night he died. We'd often talked about it and since he now had his own experience, he hardly had good grounds to not believe me.

In the case of myself and my father; the retiree, her daughter and her husband; and the psychiatrist and his former patient - we were all wide awake, not under the influence of palliative care drugs as an NDE patient might be, and we knew what we were seeing.

Of course there'll be those arrogant atheists who will insist "You were off your meds!" as though they know our minds better than we do. That's just sheer arrogance - nothing else.

I wonder how many similar stories there are in the general community? I'll bet it's a lot!!

After death communication

www.rnceus.com

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Those kinds of stories aren't unheard of, it's a vivid example of what's known as "After Death Communication". Now days they aren't seen as mental illness as much as they used to. 40 percent of those going through bereavement experience some form of ADC. I have experienced it myself, though it occurred within dreams. It can go from simply just feeling that somebody is invisibly present, all the way to actually seeing somebody standing in your room and conversing with them.

LW97Nils said:

See also the Thief on the cross. Samson also did backslide horribly, and died in that very state, however, Hebrews 11 confirms him being in heaven. Now, a deathbed repentance does usually not work, but in situations like this it may.

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Who is to say a deathbed repentence does not work? St. Constanine, who stopped the persecution of Christians, backed St. Alexander the Patriarch of Alexandria and his protodeacon and successor St. Athanasius the Great at Nicaea in their successful bid to anathematize Arius and Arianism (Arius blasphemously taught that Jesus Christ was not actually God), thus helping to preserve the doctrine of the Trinity, and he provided his mother St. Helena with the needed funds to restore and rebuild the largely ruined city of Jerusalem, which had been renamed to Aelia Capitolina and had its walls destroyed, and its Jewish residents driven out, following the Bar Kochba Revolt around 130 AD (186 years before St. Constantine legalized Christianity with the Edict of Milan).*

Like many Christians of that era, he remained a catechumen until he was baptized in extremis.

It is for God to judge those who convert at the end of their lives, not us, but we should pray fervently for the salvation of their souls.

*Most of the more controversial actions people tend to accuse St. Constantine of, such as banning the Pagan religions and making Christianity the state religion actually happened under Emperor Theodosius, who is a saint, and his son Theodosius II, who probably isn’t, considering he had the Patriarch of Constantinople St. John Chrysostom (who is widely regarded as the greatest Christian preacher since the Holy Apostles in the first century AD) death-marched resulting in his dying for our Lord six days later, because St. Chrysostom publically rebuked the Imperial consort, Empress Theodora, for having a toilet made of solid gold, suggesting in a sermon that this extravagance was a waste of money that should have been used to help the poor. For speaking this obvious truth he was exiled, and forced to march until he died. Thus it is important not to confuse St. Constantine, St. Theododius and Emperor Theodosius II.

LW97Nils said:

It only doesn't if one hears the gospel and then continues living how he wants.

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Forgive me, but if someone genuinely repents*, even in extremis, I don’t see how you can assert that. The principle seems contrary to much of the teaching of our Lord in the Gospels, for example, the Parable of the Prodigal Son and the Parable of the Lost Sheep, and for that matter the Good Thief, who obviously had lived a wicked life but was moved to faith, piety and metanoia (repentence; the word metanoia, which we translate in English via Latin and French as repentence literally means “to change one’s mind”, and for this reason Eastern Orthodox clergy during the Preparation phase of the Divine Liturgy hold the loaf of uncut bread to their forehead before beginning to cut it into the Lamb and various other particles that will be consecrated into the Body of our Lord, the remainder of the loaf being blessed as antidoron, which is blessed bread traditionally offered by all of the Eastern churches (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and most, probably all, Eastern Catholic churches**).

*Or rather, attempts to repent. Abba Sisoes the Great, one of the Desert Fathers, while on his deathbed, had this exchange:

“When St Sisoës lay upon his deathbed, the disciples surrounding the Elder saw that his face shone like the sun. They asked the dying man what he saw. Abba Sisoës replied that he saw St Anthony, the Prophets, and the Apostles. His face increased in brightness, and he spoke with someone. The monks asked, "With whom are you speaking, Father?" He said that angels had come for his soul, and he was entreating them to give him a little more time for repentance. The monks said, "You have no need for repentance, Father" St Sisoës said with great humility, "I do not think that I have even begun to repent."

After these words the face of the holy abba shone so brightly that the brethren were not able to look upon him. St Sisoës told them that he saw the Lord Himself. Then there was a flash like lightning, and a fragrant odor, and Abba Sisoës departed to the Heavenly Kingdom.”

**Most Eastern Catholic churches are essentially Orthodox churches in communion with, and subordination to, the Pope in Rome, with the liturgy of the Catholic branches of the Oriental Orthodox (Syriac Catholic, Coptic Catholic, Ethiopian Catholic, Malankara Catholic, Armenian Catholic***) and Assyrian-derived churches (the Chaldean Catholic Church in Iraq, chiefly in the region in and around Baghdad, and the Syro Malabar Catholic Church in India) modified to comply with Chalcedonian Christology, these modifications occurring before Pope Benedict XVI, memory eternal, prior to his election in the mid 2000s, as Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith (the successor to the Holy Office, itself the successor to the Inquisition) determined after careful study that the Christology of the Assyrian Church of the East and of the Oriental Orthodox were actually fully compatible with that of Chalcedon, at least as far as Rome is concerned. There was also some degree of Latinization, for example, the introduction of Western (Roman Rite, Ambrosian Rite, Anglo-Catholic and Lutheran) devotions such as Rosaries and Stations of the Cross).

***Before the genocide against the Christians in Turkey in 1915, which killed 60% of the Pontic Greeks, 90% of the Syriac Christians, but had the largest total body count among the Armenians, the Armenian Catholic Church was the largest Eastern Catholic Church. Although much smaller than the Oriental Orthodox Armenian Apostolic Church, it was much larger than any of the other Eastern Catholic Churches, even the Maronite Catholics of Lebanon, and the Ruthenian Greek Catholics from the Carpathian mountains and the Ukrainian Greek Catholics. Now, 108 years after the Genocide, which Turkey and several countries still fail to acknowledge, the Armenian Catholic Church is one of the smallest Eastern Catholic Churches. This statistic I find moving as it underscores the extreme human tragedy of the dreadful genocide the Syriac Christians call the Sayfo (lit. sword), a genocide which directly inspired Hitler to conduct genocides against the Jewish and Roma (Gypsy) people under Nazi rule during WWII. The principle difference was that whereas the Nazis conducted the genocide in a notoriously efficient, clinical, industrial manner, the Turks just hacked the Christian men, women and children into pieces or killed them via inhuman torture.

Now I raise this historical point for a reason related to this thread, to the issue of deathbed confessions: while obviously it seems unlikely that Hitler would wind up anywhere other than the Outer Darkness on the dread day of judgement, considering what he did and the fact he committed suicide (after killing, presumably with her consent, his newly wed wife Eva Braun), we actually have no way of knowing for sure. Likewise, we cannot be certain of our own salvation. For this reason, we must take to heart the Parable of the Publican and the Pharisee, where our Lord gave us an example to avoid in the case of the ostensibly virtuous Pharisee, who gave thanks to God for not being a sinner, like the Publican, whereas the Publican prayed for God to have mercy on him, a sinner, and was contrite and penitent. The Pharisee on the other hand was corrupted by pride, and as a result of his profound arrogance was in a state of spiritual delusion.

Thus, while it is highly unlikely that anyone we might hope to encounter in life is capable of doing what Hitler did, we should in the interests of humility consider ourselves to be the worst of sinners. Several Eastern Orthodox prayers declare the person making the prayer to be the chief sinner, and similar prayers and attitudes exist or are cultivated in the other Eastern churches, and in several of the Roman Catholic religious orders, for example, the Carthusians and Capuchins, and also within some Protestant denominations, for example, Lutheranism and some Reformed denominations that reject the notion of Once Saved, Always Saved.