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As John said, we know we are in Christ when we keep his commandments.

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Neostarwcc

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Never perfectly. Never fully. But when we take the commandments of God and apply them to our lives, we know that we are in the family of God.



Those who do not keep the commandments of God are liars and the truth are not in them. Amen, John.
 
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BobRyan

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Neostarwcc said:
Never perfectly. Never fully. But when we take the commandments of God and apply them to our lives, we know that we are in the family of God.



Those who do not keep the commandments of God are liars and the truth are not in them. Amen, John.
Click to expand...
You are quoting 1 John 2 and it does appear that God looks for obedience in His children - not rebellion.

1 John 4:3 informs us that "sin is transgression of the Law" -

1 Cor 7:19 says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

1 John 5:3-4 says "this IS the Love of God that we keep His Commandments"

So the NT writers do address this point. As Jesus said in John 14 "If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments" which is what we find in the TEN commandments "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6.

All of Romans 6 argues for obedience -- not rebellion just as we see in Rom 3:31.
 
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Soyeong

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ItsAdventageous said:
I disagree with those two statements, based upon what the Holy Ghost inspired the NT (and even OT) writers to write.
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God's law came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it never required perfect obedience.
 
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Soyeong said:
God's law came with instructions for what to do when the people sinned, so it never required perfect obedience.
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And we have instructions in the NC Writings for what to do when we sin while growing up to maturity and beyond.
 
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BobRyan said:
You are quoting 1 John 2 and it does appear that God looks for obedience in His children - not rebellion.
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1John2:5.

And in 1John2:3-4 we know Him if we keep His commandments.

And 1John3:24 we remain in Him and He in us if we keep His commandments.

And in Titus1:16 He finds disgusting, those who profess to know Him but deny Him in works.

Some time ago I began a search on Biblical terminology that's correlated to obeying God. Here's part of that list:
  1. Faith/Belief in God
  2. Love God
  3. Love Neighbor
  4. Walk with God
  5. Hear God
  6. Righteousness
  7. Lawfulness
  8. Blamelessness
  9. Maturity/Perfection
  10. God's Elect
  11. Born Again/From Above
  12. Born from God
  13. God's Children
  14. Humility
  15. Godliness
  16. Life
  17. Fear God
  18. Know God
And before too long we'll probably find debate entering in denying His Law or limiting it to undefined and unexplained love. It's to the point where I view those who argue against or greatly minimize keeping God's commandments with increasing caution. And those who try to turn it into some works salvation concept I treat with just as much caution.
 
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Neostarwcc

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ItsAdventageous said:
I disagree with those two statements, based upon what the Holy Ghost inspired the NT (and even OT) writers to write.
Click to expand...

If we could perfectly keep God's commandments Christ wouldn't have had to die for us. As James said in James 2:10 if somebody keeps the whole law yet stumbles at one point he is guilty of breaking the whole law. Have you ever lied before? That's just breaking one commandment. There are probably thousands of them in the Bible. However, that doesn't mean that we are exempt from keeping God's commandments. It's just that we will never obtain the perfection that God requires of us. That's why Christ died for us. We obtain his righteousness because ours are as filthy rags.
 
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Neostarwcc said:
If we could perfectly keep God's commandments Christ wouldn't have had to die for us. As James said in James 2:10 if somebody keeps the whole law yet stumbles at one point he is guilty of breaking the whole law. Have you ever lied before? That's just breaking one commandment. There are probably thousands of them in the Bible. However, that doesn't mean that we are exempt from keeping God's commandments. It's just that we will never obtain the perfection that God requires of us. That's why Christ died for us. We obtain his righteousness because ours are as filthy rags.
Click to expand...

In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who had already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because it would have already been too late, but it doesn't stop people from citing James 2:10 to make a point that is contrary to the point he was making. James was wanting them to repent from their favoritism and the fact that repentance has value means that we don't need to have perfect obedience. He also said nothing in those verses about obtaining righteousness or about our righteousness being as filthy rags. In Isaiah 64:6, it is not God speaking, but rather it is the people complaining about how they thought God viewed their actions because He was not coming down and making His prescience known. The reality is that the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8).
 
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Guojing

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Neostarwcc said:
Never perfectly. Never fully. But when we take the commandments of God and apply them to our lives, we know that we are in the family of God.



Those who do not keep the commandments of God are liars and the truth are not in them. Amen, John.
Click to expand...

Yes, Jesus preached the Law during his first coming to Israel. He came to fulfill it.
 
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Strong in Him

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Neostarwcc said:
Never perfectly. Never fully. But when we take the commandments of God and apply them to our lives, we know that we are in the family of God.



Those who do not keep the commandments of God are liars and the truth are not in them. Amen, John.
Click to expand...
Those who have not received God's love for them cannot keep his command to love as he loves.
We only receive Agape love from God, and it grows in us as a fruit of his Spirit. We love because God first loved us, 1 John 4:19.
 
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BobRyan

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Soyeong said:
In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who had already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because it would have already been too late, but it doesn't stop people from citing James 2:10 to make a point that is contrary to the point he was making. James was wanting them to repent from their favoritism and the fact that repentance has value means that we don't need to have perfect obedience. He also said nothing in those verses about obtaining righteousness or about our righteousness being as filthy rags. In Isaiah 64:6, it is not God speaking, but rather it is the people complaining about how they thought God viewed their actions because He was not coming down and making His prescience known. The reality is that the righteous deeds of the saints are like fine white linen (Revelation 19:8).
Click to expand...
Would you agree that this is not what James is saying in James 2
"Go ahead and practice favoritism, racism, bigotry - but do it LESS often than you did before"??​


Do we expect the church to tell it's pastors "God ahead and commit adultery - but try to do it less and less often as the years go by"?

Do you see things in a "valid ok sins that are impossible to stop" vs "profane sins that must stop" kind of way?

Either way - 1 John 2:1 tells us to 'sin not' yet also points to Christ as our high priest in heaven - providing forgiveness of sins.
Both statements are important.
 
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BobRyan said:
Would you agree that this is not what James is saying in James 2
"Go ahead and practice favoritism, racism, bigotry - but do it LESS often than you did before"??​


Do we expect the church to tell it's pastors "God ahead and commit adultery - but try to do it less and less often as the years go by"?

Do you see things in a "valid ok sins that are impossible to stop" vs "profane sins that must stop" kind of way?

Either way - 1 John 2:1 tells us to 'sin not' yet also points to Christ as our high priest in heaven - providing forgiveness of sins.
Both statements are important.
Click to expand...

The goal is certainly to stop sinning, though the reality is that we sin less as we mature in our faith. James was wanting them to repent from their favoritism and to be more consistent in their obedience to God's law, which has nothing to do with perfect obedience.
 
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