2022 is America's deadliest year for mass shootings.

Kent M · Jan 6, 2023

expos4ever said:
As a matter of fact, the evidence shows that access to guns does indeed increase the risk of suicide - the "they will use a rope if a gun is not available" is not supported by the evidence. To wit:

From a Study published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2008 (authors = Miller and Hemenway) (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0805923)

The empirical evidence linking suicide risk in the United States to the presence of firearms in the home is compelling. There are at least a dozen U.S. case–control studies in the peer-reviewed literature, all of which have found that a gun in the home is associated with an increased risk of suicide. The increase in risk is large, typically 2 to 10 times that in homes without guns, depending on the sample population (e.g., adolescents vs. older adults) and on the way in which the firearms were stored. The association between guns in the home and the risk of suicide is due entirely to a large increase in the risk of suicide by firearm that is not counterbalanced by a reduced risk of nonfirearm suicide. Moreover, the increased risk of suicide is not explained by increased psychopathologic characteristics, suicidal ideation, or suicide attempts among members of gun-owning households.

So it is just easier to commit suicide with a gun than it is with a knife, of

RocksInMyHead · Jan 6, 2023

Kent M said:
So it is just easier to commit suicide with a gun than it is with a knife

That is, indeed, the point. Suicide is frequently a highly impulsive act - per the article previously posted, 24% of suicide attempts were made within 5 minutes of deciding to commit suicide and 70% were made within an hour of the decision. It takes very little knowledge, preparation, or effort to kill yourself with a gun, so someone with suicidal impulses would have little chance to stop and think about the process before pulling the trigger. In comparison, cutting your wrists or deliberately ODing on medication both take some knowledge (where/how to cut, what constitutes a lethal dose) and require more time to execute, giving the victim more chance to consider their actions - in most cases, people are driven to attempt suicide by acute psychological distress, and will relent from that decision once they have time to process the distress. They also (generally) don't happen as quickly, giving more opportunity for the victim to be found and treated in time.

Kent M · Jan 6, 2023

Kent M said:
So it is just easier to commit suicide with a gun than it is with a knife, of

Sorry. Hit the wrong button. Where was I?..... So it is just easier to commit suicide with a gun than it is with a knife.. or by inhaling carbon monoxide in your garage.. or by hanging with a rope.. or by jumping off a bridge.. or by stepping in front of a truck.. But no matter the method at least we can agree that the inclusion of gun suicides should not be quietly included with in the stats of "Gun violence" in order to arouse opposition to our 2nd amendment right to defend ourselves!

RocksInMyHead · Jan 6, 2023

Kent M said:
But no matter the method at least we can agree that the inclusion of gun suicides should not be quietly included with in the stats of "Gun violence" in order to arouse opposition to our 2nd amendment right to defend ourselves!

I don't see how that follows. If we establish that guns have a strong correlation with increases in the suicide rate (and that the rate of non-gun suicide does not decrease appreciably as the rate of gun ownership increases), then that would seem to be a compelling argument to limit access to guns.

Regardless, the subject of the OP is mass shootings, which generally do not include suicides.

Kent M · Jan 6, 2023

RocksInMyHead said:
I don't see how that follows. If we establish that guns have a strong correlation with increases in the suicide rate (and that the rate of non-gun suicide does not decrease appreciably as the rate of gun ownership increases), then that would seem to be a compelling argument to limit access to guns.

Regardless, the subject of the OP is mass shootings, which generally do not include suicides.

As I said when they start beating the drums against gun ownership by saying "gun violence" they, without mentioning the fact, include suicides. When the common understanding of "gun violence" is..murder. Never mentioned are suicides and self defense shootings. Gun laws only succeed in taking guns away from the LAW ABIDING citizens. A CRIMINAL, by definition, is someone who does not obey laws! Maybe you could mention one anti gun law that criminals obey.

RocksInMyHead · Jan 6, 2023

Kent M said:
As I said when they start beating the drums against gun ownership by saying "gun violence" they, without mentioning the fact, include suicides.

Perhaps, but it hasn't happened in this thread, so I don't see why you would bring it up. Again, the topic of this thread is mass shootings, which generally don't include suicides unless someone first kills three or more people before killing himself.

Kent M · Jan 7, 2023

And..the "mass shootings" or "gun violence" figures include the high suicide rate in America. That is not mentioned, I think out of ignorance or sometimes deliberately, to arouse support for taking away our guns, to disarm us. And that would abridge our 2nd amendment right to defend ourselves - "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." - The 2nd Amendment.

expos4ever · Jan 7, 2023

Kent M said:
And..the "mass shootings" or "gun violence" figures include the high suicide rate in America. That is not mentioned, I think out of ignorance or sometimes deliberately, to arouse support for taking away our guns, to disarm us. And that would abridge our 2nd amendment right to defend ourselves - "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." - The 2nd Amendment.

Why would the fact that suicides are part of these figures change anything?

Whether gun is used to kill someone else, or to kill yourself the victim is just as dead.

You have been shown evidence that your "people who want to kill themselves will find a way if there is no gun" is not supported by the evidence.

And you also seem to think that the 2nd amendment has the status of gospel truth. But just because something is legal does not not necessarily make it moral, or wise.

RocksInMyHead · Jan 7, 2023

Kent M said:
And..the "mass shootings" or "gun violence" figures include the high suicide rate in America.

Why would mass shooting figures - which are generally defined as three or more people shot (or killed, depending on your source) in a single event - include suicides?

Kent M · Jan 7, 2023

What is not moral or wise or logical is passing laws that take away the guns of law abiding citizens leaving the criminals with the guns. They will not obey your anti gun laws because..they are CRIMINALS! You did have a good point about legality not being morality. It is legal to kill babies in this country but it certainly is not moral!

Say it aint so · Jan 7, 2023

disciple Clint said:
Since guns are inanimate objects they do not by themselves kill anyone, therefore the number of guns has no relationship to the number of gun deaths other than the fact of course that if Scotty did beam away all guns people would need to use an alternate weapon. The problem is with people misusing guns, it is a people problem not a gun problem.

Correct, guns need an actor. Now, I just provided two articles that proved your notion that more gun access on the street means more gun deaths. You seem to have just blow that off. Odd.

Kent M · Jan 8, 2023

He seems to be aware that gun laws take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens and leave guns..in the hands of criminals. Every time Obama or Biden threaten our 2nd amendment right to bear arms there has been a HUGE spike in gun purchases! They both are great gun salesmen. Gun sales are now up to 16 MILLION per year in America! Most of them first time buyers. During WWII the Japanese considered invading America. They had, up to that point. defeated every country they invaded. But they decided not to risk invading America because they knew about our love of guns and they said, "There will be a gun behind every blade of grass!"

Say it aint so · Jan 8, 2023

Kent M said:
He seems to be aware that gun laws take guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens and leave guns..in the hands of criminals. Every time Obama or Biden threaten our 2nd amendment right to bear arms there has been a HUGE spike in gun purchases! They both are great gun salesmen. Gun sales are now up to 16 MILLION per year in America! Most of them first time buyers. During WWII the Japanese considered invading America. They had, up to that point. defeated every country they invaded. But they decided not to risk invading America because they knew about our love of guns and they said, "There will be a gun behind every blade of grass!"

"During WWII the Japanese considered invading America. They had, up to that point. defeated every country they invaded."

False

Kent M · Jan 8, 2023

That's it? No proof of...... "false."

Pommer · Jan 8, 2023

Kent M said:
That's it? No proof of...... "false."

It helps to follow links within cites.

renniks · Jan 8, 2023

Whyayeman said:
Go on. I could be wrong. Yet gun ownership in America is staggering to the rest of the world. Here are some slightly out of date numbers from Wikipedia:

Americans made up 4 percent of the world's population but owned about 46 percent of the entire global stock of 857 million civilian firearms."[7] U.S civilians own 393 million guns. American civilians own more guns "than those held by civilians in the other top 25 countries combined.[8]

American civilians own nearly 100 times as many firearms as the U.S. military and nearly 400 times as many as law enforcement."[9] Americans bought more than 2 million guns in May 2018,[9] more than twice the total number of arms possessed by law enforcement agencies in the United States combined.[9] In April and May 2018, U.S. civilians bought 4.7 million guns, which is more than all the firearms stockpiled by the United States military.[9] In 2017, Americans bought 25.2 million guns, which is 2.5 million more guns than possessed by every law enforcement agency in the world put together.[9] Between 2012 and 2017, U.S. civilians bought 135 million guns, 2 million more guns than the combined stockpile of all the world's armed forces.[9]

Makes me proud to live here!

disciple Clint · Jan 9, 2023

Pommer said:
Nice to see a staunch conservative admit that capitalism is flailing.

no where is that indicated.

Pommer · Jan 9, 2023

disciple Clint said:
no where is that indicated.

‘Twas but a jest, enjoy being a good Capitalist!

disciple Clint · Jan 9, 2023

Say it aint so said:
Correct, guns need an actor. Now, I just provided two articles that proved your notion that more gun access on the street means more gun deaths. You seem to have just blow that off. Odd.

I do not see it as being relevant, it is not the number of guns that kills people, it is the people that kill people.

Whyayeman · Jan 9, 2023

Kent M said:
During WWII the Japanese considered invading America. They had, up to that point. defeated every country they invaded. But they decided not to risk invading America because they knew about our love of guns and they said, "There will be a gun behind every blade of grass!"

Maybe there was more to the decision than that.

2022 is America's deadliest year for mass shootings.

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