More details about Torban, the Danish Pastor imprisoned in the US

Carl Emerson · Dec 27, 2022

This video details the attempts to misrepresent Torban who is still being held in a US prison without charge.

Please pray that the truth will come out soon.

JosephZ · Dec 27, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
This video details the attempts to misrepresent Torban who is still being held in a US prison without charge.

He's currently being held in an ICE detention facility for overstaying his visa. There doesn't need to be a charge for any specific crime for him to be held under that circumstance.

Pekka · Dec 27, 2022

I think there are a lot worse people in US with similar grounds. Torben has done good for the country by introducing God to many people who most likely have become more honest workers and tax payers.

Carl Emerson · Dec 27, 2022

JosephZ said:
overstaying his visa

Can you give some official confirmation of this?

How does this allegation relate to his seeking asylum in the US ?

Carl Emerson · Dec 27, 2022

JosephZ said:
He's currently being held in an ICE detention facility for overstaying his visa. There doesn't need to be a charge for any specific crime for him to be held under that circumstance.

NEW DOCUMENTS OBTAINED FROM US GOVERNMENT CONTAIN FALSE AND MISLEADING INFORMATION ABOUT TORBEN - Friends of Torben

A new document from US Department of Homeland Security contains false and misleading information. The official US Department of Homeland Security document, referred to as an I-831, was recently obtained by Torben’s attorneys. The document reports that Torben is detained for overstaying his visa...

web.archive.org

JosephZ · Dec 28, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Can you give some official confirmation of this?

How does this allegation relate to his seeking asylum in the US ?

In the link you provided in post #5 there is a copy of an I-831 form that confirms he is being held for overstaying his visa. He entered the country under the visa waiver program which allowed him to stay in the US for 90 days. Even though he applied for asylum prior to his visa waiver expiring, he can still be detained and can be deported since he originally entered the country under the visa waiver program. Once the 90 days passed, unless there he was granted an extension or asylum beforehand, he became an illegal alien. Having a pending asylum case doesn't change this.

If he were truly seeking asylum, it seems he would have requested it as soon as he entered the country rather than wait until six days before his visa waiver expires; had he done this, in all likelihood he could have remained in the country without being detained until all his asylum hearings were heard and a final decision made. As it stands now, he will remain in detention until he is either approved for asylum (Highly unlikely), or deported.

Carl Emerson · Dec 28, 2022

JosephZ said:
In the link you provided in post #5 there is a copy of an I-831 form that confirms he is being held for overstaying his visa. He entered the country under the visa waiver program which allowed him to stay in the US for 90 days. Even though he applied for asylum prior to his visa waiver expiring, he can still be detained and can be deported since he originally entered the country under the visa waiver program. Once the 90 days passed, unless there he was granted an extension or asylum beforehand, he became an illegal alien. Having a pending asylum case doesn't change this.

If he were truly seeking asylum, it seems he would have requested it as soon as he entered the country rather than wait until six days before his visa waiver expires; had he done this, in all likelihood he could have remained in the country without being detained until all his asylum hearings were heard and a final decision made. As it stands now, he will remain in detention until he is either approved for asylum (Highly unlikely), or deported.

So given that his backstory was well known and he has an asylum hearing pending there would need to be some other reason to be incarcerated which there clearly was not.

ICE does not detain in these circumstances without very good reason.

Good reasons are lacking.

JosephZ · Dec 28, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
So given that his backstory was well known and he has an asylum hearing pending there would need to be some other reason to be incarcerated which there clearly was not.

No other reason is necessary.

There are serious sacrifices that must be made in exchange for the ease and convenience of the VWP [Visa Waiver Program]. Most notably, the VWP entrant waives her right to appear before an Immigration Judge if deemed inadmissible, and is not entitled to bond if held in the custody of an immigration official... The only exception for the VWP entrant is a claim of asylum, but even then, the VWP entrant is subject to mandatory detention while her asylum application is decided.

Dangers and Limitations of Entry Under the Visa Waiver Program | Reeves

Under the VWP, persons from certain specified countries can enter the United States as a visitor for a period not to exceed 90 days with nothing more than a ...

reevesimmigration.com

Carl Emerson · Dec 28, 2022

JosephZ said:
No other reason is necessary.

There are serious sacrifices that must be made in exchange for the ease and convenience of the VWP [Visa Waiver Program]. Most notably, the VWP entrant waives her right to appear before an Immigration Judge if deemed inadmissible, and is not entitled to bond if held in the custody of an immigration official... The only exception for the VWP entrant is a claim of asylum, but even then, the VWP entrant is subject to mandatory detention while her asylum application is decided.

Dangers and Limitations of Entry Under the Visa Waiver Program | Reeves

Under the VWP, persons from certain specified countries can enter the United States as a visitor for a period not to exceed 90 days with nothing more than a ...

reevesimmigration.com

While your postulation may be technically correct there is a big difference between the provision and application of the law.

If all the overstayers were jailed for example there would be an uproar.

The way Torben is being treated is not typical.

This clearly indicates prejudice.

JosephZ · Dec 28, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
If all the overstayers were jailed for example there would be an uproar.

The way Torben is being treated is not typical.

Most overstays pay a fine and either voluntarily leave the country or are deported. Since Torben wants to stay in the country and has filed for asylum, he will remain in custody until a final decision is made on his request.

dqhall · Dec 28, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
While your postulation may be technically correct there is a big difference between the provision and application of the law.

If all the overstayers were jailed for example there would be an uproar.

The way Torben is being treated is not typical.

This clearly indicates prejudice.

Correct me if I am wrong. He applied for asylum. There was a complaint about illegal activity, so they locked him up. If he had not applied for asylum, ICE may have sought a warrant for his deportation after he overstayed his visa anyway. Ice deported thousands of people. ICE can not find all the people who overstayed their visas. When they have criminal complaints against them, they do not have the same rights as citizens.

A man from India with a job and a green card was arrested for driving while intoxicated. He was deported because of the illegal activity. Had he become a naturalized citizen, he could stay. His wife and children stayed in America and became citizens. She divorced him.

James 4:13-15

13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow let’s go into this city, and spend a year there, trade, and make a profit.” 14 Whereas you don’t know what your life will be like tomorrow. For what is your life? For you are a vapor that appears for a little time, and then vanishes away. 15 For you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will both live, and do this or that.”

Carl Emerson · Dec 28, 2022

dqhall said:
Correct me if I am wrong. He applied for asylum. There was a complaint about illegal activity, so they locked him up.

Can you confirm any legitimate complaint made against Torben that has proved to be illegal please.

Vinter · Dec 28, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
While your postulation may be technically correct there is a big difference between the provision and application of the law.

If all the overstayers were jailed for example there would be an uproar.

The way Torben is being treated is not typical.

This clearly indicates prejudice.

He is being held for gun smugling. He does not strike me as a weapons smugler.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2022/july/evangelist-torben-sondergaard-came-to-us-for-asylum-now-hes-been-arrested-accused-of-gun-smuggling

TV 2 is a woke channel that promotes women movements and homo sexuality. TV 2 have also made programs about gender bending, that includes children. It's no surprise they want to ruin Christianity and a Christian man's reputation.

dqhall · Dec 28, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Can you confirm any legitimate complaint made against Torben that has proved to be illegal please.

I have no complaint against him. When you brought up this subject before you mentioned he was accused of being involved in illegal gun transport or trade. He claimed he was not. Perhaps he was not directly involved, perhaps someone in his group was. I do not know. Someone in CF posted a photo found in social media with him holding a rifle in an outdoor setting. Jesus did not carry a sword.

I know there is persecution in Europe, but to flee to the United States for protection? The United States has its own persecution, maybe worse than Europe because of the gun violence and lack of gun control laws. Violent crime is a problem. People walked into schools or shopping areas firing on civilians. Now I remember the Ukraine - Russian conflict. They do not want to be nice to each other.

Some American churches have members who are vocal advocates of the unrestricted right to own semiautomatic rifles. Other church members do not want the sale of guns without universal criminal background checks.

New Zealand has it good. Maybe you could get him asylum in New Zealand? Fresh air, seafood, lots of sheep. Not sure if New Zealnders would pay to hear his preaching. He might be able to get a job on a fishing boat. They might deport him instead.

Carl Emerson · Dec 28, 2022

Vinter said:
He is being held for gun smugling. He does not strike me as a weapons smugler.

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2022/july/evangelist-torben-sondergaard-came-to-us-for-asylum-now-hes-been-arrested-accused-of-gun-smuggling

TV 2 is a woke channel that promotes women movements and homo sexuality. TV 2 have also made programs about gender bending, that includes children. It's no surprise they want to ruin Christianity and a Christian man's reputation.

There is no mention of gun smuggling in the 1-831 no such charges exist.

Carl Emerson · Dec 28, 2022

dqhall said:
I have no complaint against him. When you brought up this subject before you mentioned he was accused of being involved in illegal gun transport or trade. He claimed he was not. Perhaps he was not directly involved, perhaps someone in his group was. I do not know. Someone in CF posted a photo found in social media with him holding a rifle in an outdoor setting. Jesus did not carry a sword.

I know there is persecution in Europe, but to flee to the United States for protection? The United States has its own persecution, maybe worse than Europe because of the gun violence and lack of gun control laws. Violent crime is a problem. People walked into schools or shopping areas firing on civilians. Now I remember the Ukraine - Russian conflict. They do not want to be nice to each other.

Some American churches have members who are vocal advocates of the unrestricted right to own semiautomatic rifles. Other church members do not want the sale of guns without universal criminal background checks.

New Zealand has it good. Maybe you could get him asylum in New Zealand? Fresh air, seafood, lots of sheep. Not sure if New Zealnders would pay to hear his preaching. He might be able to get a job on a fishing boat. They might deport him instead.

Most of us have fired a gun in the context of recreational use - this hardly contradicts any teaching of Jesus.

The authorities seem to have withdrawn from any accusation of gun smuggling.

dqhall · Dec 28, 2022

Carl Emerson said:
Most of us have fired a gun in the context of recreational use - this hardly contradicts any teaching of Jesus.

The authorities seem to have withdrawn from any accusation of gun smuggling.

My dad was in the military. I fired a gun before. I do not own a gun now. I got out of some dangerous situations by remembering not to resist, not brace for a fight, not clench a fist, not make a threat.

I have read the gun smuggling at the border is mainly guns being smuggled from the U.S. to Mexico for/by the cartels.

I hope Torban goes free.

The conservative churches here are against illegal immigration, same as in Europe. During the nineteenth century some churches assisted black slaves escaping to travel north to freedom in the underground railroad. I hope someone will help Torben. Some gave water and food to Latinos arriving in El Paso to seek asylum. It is in their local news.

LoricaLady · Dec 29, 2022

dqhall said:
I have no complaint against him. When you brought up this subject before you mentioned he was accused of being involved in illegal gun transport or trade. He claimed he was not. Perhaps he was not directly involved, perhaps someone in his group was. I do not know. Someone in CF posted a photo found in social media with him holding a rifle in an outdoor setting. Jesus did not carry a sword.

I know there is persecution in Europe, but to flee to the United States for protection? The United States has its own persecution, maybe worse than Europe because of the gun violence and lack of gun control laws. Violent crime is a problem. People walked into schools or shopping areas firing on civilians. Now I remember the Ukraine - Russian conflict. They do not want to be nice to each other.

Some American churches have members who are vocal advocates of the unrestricted right to own semiautomatic rifles. Other church members do not want the sale of guns without universal criminal background checks.

New Zealand has it good. Maybe you could get him asylum in New Zealand? Fresh air, seafood, lots of sheep. Not sure if New Zealnders would pay to hear his preaching. He might be able to get a job on a fishing boat. They might deport him instead.

LoricaLady · Dec 29, 2022

Apparently, Christ did not carry a sword. But we cannot be totally absolutely sure that he never did have a weapon as there’s silence on that. We cannot use the argument from silence. Though we would agree that carrying a weapon would seem to be out of his character.

In addition, in the garden of Gethsemane, we do see that at least some of his apostles were armed, and he said.””It is enough.” See Luke 22.

For example, Peter had a sword when he cut off the ear of the temple servant. We do not see that he had been rebuked for caring that weapon. But he was rebuked for using it against someone comparatively harmless.

We
are told that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. But someone who is carrying a weapon to protect himself, and loved ones, is not living by the sword. He is prepared defensively.

dqhall · Dec 29, 2022

LoricaLady said:
Apparently, Christ did not carry a sword. But we cannot be totally absolutely sure that he never did have a weapon as there’s silence on that. We cannot use the argument from silence. Though we would agree that carrying a weapon would seem to be out of his character.

In addition, in the garden of Gethsemane, we do see that at least some of his apostles were armed, and he said.””It is enough.” See Luke 22.

For example, Peter had a sword when he cut off the ear of the temple servant. We do not see that he had been rebuked for caring that weapon. But he was rebuked for using it against someone comparatively harmless.

We
are told that those who live by the sword will die by the sword. But someone who is carrying a weapon to protect himself, and loved ones, is not living by the sword. He is prepared defensively.

After Jesus fed the 5,000 he instructed those present:

Luke 9:23 (WEB) He said to all, “If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever will lose his life for my sake, will save it. 25 For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits his own self? 26 For whoever will be ashamed of me and of my words, of him will the Son of Man be ashamed, when he comes in his glory, and the glory of the Father, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you the truth: There are some of those who stand here who will in no way taste of death until they see God’s Kingdom.”

During his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus advised non-violence:

Matthew 5:39 (WEB) But I tell you, don’t resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. 41 Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.

More details about Torban, the Danish Pastor imprisoned in the US

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

James 4:13-15​

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

YHWH's

YHWH's

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

James 4:13-15