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Faith Comes By Hearing, But Obedience By Fear!

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Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?


But theres an everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.


But Let's go back to the beginning and see how the Lord dealt with his people and get some understanding on how we should we wise and be obedient.

Let’s go into Joshua 3: 1 And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 7 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.


8 And thou shalt command the priests that bear the ark of the covenant, saying, When ye are come to the brink of the water of Jordan, ye shall stand still in Jordan. 13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap. 15 and as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,) 16that the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho. 17 And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.


We see that God magnified Joshua so the people would have the same fear they had towards Moses. Let’s continue in Joshua 4:1 And it came to pass, when all the people were clean passed over, that the ark of the LORD passed over, and the priests, in the presence of the people. 14 On that day the LORD magnified Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and they feared him, as they feared Moses, all the days of his life.15 And the LORD spake unto Joshua, saying, 16 Command the priests that bear the ark of the testimony, that they come up out of Jordan. 17 Joshua therefore commanded the priests, saying, Come ye up out of Jordan. 18 And it came to pass, when the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD were come up out of the midst of Jordan, and the soles of the priests' feet were lifted up unto the dry land, that the waters of Jordan returned unto their place, and flowed over all his banks, as they did before. 23 For the LORD your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until ye were passed over, as the LORD your God did to the Red sea, which he dried up from before us, until we were gone over: 24 that all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.

God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

Let’s go to 1 Samuel 16: 1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Beth-lehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. 4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Beth-lehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably? 5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice.

See how the people trembled because Samuel wielded the power of God as his priest. Let’s go into Proverbs 1: 5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; The words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction. 22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? And the scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: Behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, And would none of my reproof:

31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own devices. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, And the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
 

Neogaia777

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Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?


But theres an everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.


But Let's go back to the beginning and see how the Lord dealt with his people and get some understanding on how we should we wise and be obedient.

Let’s go into Joshua 3: 1 And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 7 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.


8 And thou shalt command the priests that bear the ark of the covenant, saying, When ye are come to the brink of the water of Jordan, ye shall stand still in Jordan. 13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap. 15 and as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,) 16that the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho. 17 And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.


We see that God magnified Joshua so the people would have the same fear they had towards Moses. Let’s continue in Joshua 4:1 And it came to pass, when all the people were clean passed over, that the ark of the LORD passed over, and the priests, in the presence of the people. 14 On that day the LORD magnified Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and they feared him, as they feared Moses, all the days of his life.15 And the LORD spake unto Joshua, saying, 16 Command the priests that bear the ark of the testimony, that they come up out of Jordan. 17 Joshua therefore commanded the priests, saying, Come ye up out of Jordan. 18 And it came to pass, when the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD were come up out of the midst of Jordan, and the soles of the priests' feet were lifted up unto the dry land, that the waters of Jordan returned unto their place, and flowed over all his banks, as they did before. 23 For the LORD your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until ye were passed over, as the LORD your God did to the Red sea, which he dried up from before us, until we were gone over: 24 that all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.

God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

Let’s go to 1 Samuel 16: 1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Beth-lehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. 4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Beth-lehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably? 5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice.

See how the people trembled because Samuel wielded the power of God as his priest. Let’s go into Proverbs 1: 5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; The words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction. 22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? And the scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: Behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, And would none of my reproof:

31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own devices. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, And the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
Those who can obey out of Love will have a greater place in Heaven, but will probably be fewer, etc...

God Bless!
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?


But theres an everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.


But Let's go back to the beginning and see how the Lord dealt with his people and get some understanding on how we should we wise and be obedient.

Let’s go into Joshua 3: 1 And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 7 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.


8 And thou shalt command the priests that bear the ark of the covenant, saying, When ye are come to the brink of the water of Jordan, ye shall stand still in Jordan. 13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap. 15 and as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,) 16that the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho. 17 And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.


We see that God magnified Joshua so the people would have the same fear they had towards Moses. Let’s continue in Joshua 4:1 And it came to pass, when all the people were clean passed over, that the ark of the LORD passed over, and the priests, in the presence of the people. 14 On that day the LORD magnified Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and they feared him, as they feared Moses, all the days of his life.15 And the LORD spake unto Joshua, saying, 16 Command the priests that bear the ark of the testimony, that they come up out of Jordan. 17 Joshua therefore commanded the priests, saying, Come ye up out of Jordan. 18 And it came to pass, when the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD were come up out of the midst of Jordan, and the soles of the priests' feet were lifted up unto the dry land, that the waters of Jordan returned unto their place, and flowed over all his banks, as they did before. 23 For the LORD your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until ye were passed over, as the LORD your God did to the Red sea, which he dried up from before us, until we were gone over: 24 that all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.

God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

Let’s go to 1 Samuel 16: 1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Beth-lehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. 4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Beth-lehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably? 5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice.

See how the people trembled because Samuel wielded the power of God as his priest. Let’s go into Proverbs 1: 5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; The words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction. 22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? And the scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: Behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, And would none of my reproof:

31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own devices. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, And the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
Not obedience through love ?
 
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Maria Billingsley

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It is more difficult to obey out of Love, since many who may think they are right now, may only be doing it out of pride, which God hates, since they deceive many, etc...

God Bless!
Well love is my reason.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Do you think you will be greater than those who obey out of fear?
Fear is contrary to God's will so I'm not sure what to make of that.

1 John 4:18​

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”
 
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Neogaia777

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Fear is contrary to God's will so I'm not sure what to make of that.

1 John 4:18​

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”
See post #2
 
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Neogaia777

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Fear is contrary to God's will so I'm not sure what to make of that.

1 John 4:18​

“There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.”
It is contrary to God's perfect will, but both fear and love are a means of achieving obedience, and there will be both groups in Heaven, or that will make it into Heaven, etc, but those who are able to become perfect in Love will be the greater, but also probably the fewer.

You say you have been made perfect in Love, and I am just asking you if you think you be greater than those who are made obedient out of fear, etc...?

Or perhaps maybe you haven't given much thought to it...? And if you haven't, then that's OK, I'm just trying to further the discussion...?

The right kind of fear is not evil, and is even considered "wise", etc.

And fear is easier, I think, etc.

God Bless!
 
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BobRyan

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Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction.
True.

The first time someone goes on a ride at the fair they are asked to buckle in for their safety. The know the consequence of not doing it.
We fasten seat belts when riding in a car -- for safety.

We don't put our hand on a hot burner on the stove - for safety.

These is the fun enjoyable life and there is the miserable one where someone just keeps going for the pain and suffering option because they "get to if they want to" :)
Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
True. God is not content with simply having everyone jump straight into the lake of fire. He prefers to warn us to help us detect the error of our ways before that big abrupt eternal fate at the end.
 
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fhansen

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Many of us hear the word of God but we will see in the scriptures that Fear bring forth Obedience. Once you really sit down and study the Bible from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God means what he says and can't lie. We in the last days where the great punishment comes at the end (Lake of Fire). But those of us who walk in the word of God knows that sometime we have to be chastening by God for correction. Paul says in Hebrew 12: My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, Nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, And scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?


But theres an everlasting punishment for those who refuse to be corrected. Jesus says in Luke 12: 4, 5 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.


But Let's go back to the beginning and see how the Lord dealt with his people and get some understanding on how we should we wise and be obedient.

Let’s go into Joshua 3: 1 And Joshua rose early in the morning; and they removed from [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim, and came to Jordan, he and all the children of Israel, and lodged there before they passed over. 7 And the LORD said unto Joshua, This day will I begin to magnify thee in the sight of all Israel, that they may know that, as I was with Moses, so I will be with thee.


8 And thou shalt command the priests that bear the ark of the covenant, saying, When ye are come to the brink of the water of Jordan, ye shall stand still in Jordan. 13 And it shall come to pass, as soon as the soles of the feet of the priests that bear the ark of the LORD, the Lord of all the earth, shall rest in the waters of Jordan, that the waters of Jordan shall be cut off from the waters that come down from above; and they shall stand upon an heap. 15 and as they that bare the ark were come unto Jordan, and the feet of the priests that bare the ark were dipped in the brim of the water, (for Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,) 16that the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho. 17 And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.


We see that God magnified Joshua so the people would have the same fear they had towards Moses. Let’s continue in Joshua 4:1 And it came to pass, when all the people were clean passed over, that the ark of the LORD passed over, and the priests, in the presence of the people. 14 On that day the LORD magnified Joshua in the sight of all Israel; and they feared him, as they feared Moses, all the days of his life.15 And the LORD spake unto Joshua, saying, 16 Command the priests that bear the ark of the testimony, that they come up out of Jordan. 17 Joshua therefore commanded the priests, saying, Come ye up out of Jordan. 18 And it came to pass, when the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD were come up out of the midst of Jordan, and the soles of the priests' feet were lifted up unto the dry land, that the waters of Jordan returned unto their place, and flowed over all his banks, as they did before. 23 For the LORD your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until ye were passed over, as the LORD your God did to the Red sea, which he dried up from before us, until we were gone over: 24 that all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever.

God knows with out fear, people will not obey him.

Let’s go to 1 Samuel 16: 1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Beth-lehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons. 4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Beth-lehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably? 5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice.

See how the people trembled because Samuel wielded the power of God as his priest. Let’s go into Proverbs 1: 5A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: 6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; The words of the wise, and their dark sayings. 7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: But fools despise wisdom and instruction. 22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? And the scorners delight in their scorning, And fools hate knowledge? 23 Turn you at my reproof: Behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. 24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; 25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, And would none of my reproof:

31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, And be filled with their own devices. 32 For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, And the prosperity of fools shall destroy them.
Yes, fear is the beginning of wisdom, as we come to learn of the existence of God, of His goodness and trustworthiness, and of our incontrovertible need for Him. But love, which eventually overwhelms and casts fear out, is the real bonding agent to God and motivator of true obedience.

“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” St Basil of Cesarea
 
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Neogaia777

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“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” St Basil of Cesarea
All will be God's children in Heaven, and those who are the greatest, aka, those who are or have already been made perfect in Love, etc, prior to that, etc, will be in the position of being the greatest slaves...

Why I brought up the question earlier if the ones who came to obey out of Love, would consider themselves greater than the ones who got in, or came to obey, by some other means, etc...?

God Bless!
 
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fhansen

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All will be God's children in Heaven, and those who are the greatest, aka, those who are or have already been made perfect in Love, etc, prior to that, etc, will be in the position of being the greatest slaves...

Why I brought up the question earlier if the ones who came to obey out of Love, would consider themselves greater than the ones who got in, or came to obey, by some other means, etc...?

God Bless!
I think we’ll all be judged on our love, with no one being perfected in it yet, in this life. But love is the goal, man’s purpose, perfection, his telos, that which he was created for. It’s more than simply the criterion for judgment; it’s God bringing man to his full fruition. We must at least be on that road, with Him.
 
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Blade

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"God knows with out fear, people will not obey him"

God can only do good. He said I never gave you the spirit of fear but of power love and a sound mind. Fruits of the spirit love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

There have been times where you just know His presence is there and you get a taste that this Father that sent His only son is the only true GOD. A word for me that does not even begin to describe Him. And you fall on your face out of aw and respect. There is no fear yet you do not want to even blink. Never once is there any fear. I am created in His image and I have never want my kids to ever fear me. Its clear we do not truly know Him. Well He sent His only son. He left Heaven became His own creation. Think about that. Look at ever thing man has done words and deeds, actions. What did He do? Gets up leaves heaven and becomes His creation since with out Him, His creation was doomed. No one but Him could to this. And to quote my self HE didn't even "blink". He willingly wanted to do this. Never once on this earth did Christ do one thing out of fear.

Why did Christ obey God? Fear? Yeah we don't know Him. You I read over the years (61 of them) about grace this grace that. For me what I never share.. first the song playing "So will I (100 Billion X)". All my life I have seen nothing but grace. Its as if I am swimming in it. Some will understand this. That hurts. Makes me cry now. I fully understand me and my thoughts desires what not. All He has ever done is show me grace love...forgiveness. That right there is why I give up have given up every thing for Him. That is why I will lay had His feet forever. I understand why He did what He did. See He made this personal. He did for just you. He makes you understand that you alone were the reason. Then how He does it I don't know but He does this for everyone of His children. Your not just one person in a billion. It was all for you. A billion.. the song is still playing.. a hundred billion.. if left the grave behind you so will I....

What I can't wrap my head around is.. how this love from Him can keep growing. His love mercy grace forgiveness. His compassion. All this.. I have always wanted to be like see like hear like Him. Since no one in my life ever loves you like this.
 
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Bro.T

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Yes, fear is the beginning of wisdom, as we come to learn of the existence of God, of His goodness and trustworthiness, and of our incontrovertible need for Him. But love, which eventually overwhelms and casts fear out, is the real bonding agent to God and motivator of true obedience.

“If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.” St Basil of Cesarea

I wanted say that we want to definitely love the with all out and soul, but we want to keep that fear in our hearts as want continue to clean ourselves up, like Pauls says in in 2 Corinthians1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
 
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Bro.T

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True.

The first time someone goes on a ride at the fair they are asked to buckle in for their safety. The know the consequence of not doing it.
We fasten seat belts when riding in a car -- for safety.

We don't put our hand on a hot burner on the stove - for safety.

These is the fun enjoyable life and there is the miserable one where someone just keeps going for the pain and suffering option because they "get to if they want to" :)


True. God is not content with simply having everyone jump straight into the lake of fire. He prefers to warn us to help us detect the error of our ways before that big abrupt eternal fate at the end.
That true as well because in the scriptures it's written in Ezekiel 18: 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
 
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Bro.T

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Not obedience through love ?

Let’s go into Number 21: 4 And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. 5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. 6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. 7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. 8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. 9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived. 10 And the children of Israel set forward, and pitched in Oboth.


So we see that the people who had faith (Belief) in what God told Moses, looked upon the serpent of brass and was healed. Those who didn’t look died, because of no faith.

Let's see who this was in the days of Moses.....1 Corinthians 10: 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. So it was Christ back there in those days as well. In Hebrews 13: 8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
 
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Bro.T

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Those who can obey out of Love will have a greater place in Heaven, but will probably be fewer, etc...

God Bless!

Jesus warned us that the road to salvation is straight and narrow and that only a few of us will find it. Many are traveling down the wrong road, which leads to destruction. This is because many of us have heard about salvation but few of us want to do what is necessary to get salvation (many are called but few are chosen). (Matthew 7:13, 14)
 
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