Can a non-Jewish person be a Messianic Jew?

Not of the World · Dec 18, 2022

Sorry if that's a really dumb question.

HARK! · Dec 18, 2022

How do you define the word "Jewish?"

How do you define the word "Jew?"

Not of the World · Dec 18, 2022

HARK! said:
How do you define the word "Jewish?"

How do you define the word "Jew?"

I understand that anyone can convert to Judaism, but that wouldn't necessarily make them a "Jew", right? Is it accurate to say that a Jew that worships Christ is a Messianic Jew but a non-Jew that worships Christ is merely a Christian and cannot be a Messianic Jew?

HARK! · Dec 18, 2022

Not of the World said:
I understand that anyone can convert to Judaism, but that wouldn't necessarily make them a "Jew", right?

That depends on how you define the word "Jew."

Not of the World said:
Is it accurate to say that a Jew that worships Christ is a Messianic Jew but a non-Jew that worships Christ is merely a Christian and cannot be a Messianic Jew?

Again, that depends on how you define the word "Jew."

The letter J didn't exist until about 500 years ago.

Do you define it exclusively as someone born in Judea?

This would exclude many.

Do you define the Jews as exclusive to the Tribe of Judah?

This would exclude the Tribe of Benjamin and the Tribe of Levi.

Do you use the word loosely to include other tribes?

What might the original meaning of the word be in Hebrew?

Would that be Yahudim, or Yah's people?

In that context, would that not exclude some who are of the Tribe of Judah, born in Judea, who have rejected YHWH, yet include some who have no blood relation to Abraham, such as the mixed multitude at Sinai?

Not of the World · Dec 18, 2022

HARK! said:
That depends on how you define the word "Jew."

Again, that depends on how you define the word "Jew."

The letter J didn't exist until about 500 years ago.

Do you define it exclusively as someone born in Judea?

This would exclude many.

Do you define the Jews as exclusive to the Tribe of Judah?

This would exclude the Tribe of Benjamin and the Tribe of Levi.

Do you use the word loosely to include other tribes?

What might the original meaning of the word be in Hebrew?

Would that be Yahudim, or Yah's people?

In that context, would that not exclude some who are of the Tribe of Judahm who have rejected YHWH, yet include some who have no blood relation to Abraham, such as the mixed multitude as Sinai?

I haven't the slightest idea.

HARK! · Dec 18, 2022

Not of the World said:
Sorry if that's a really dumb question.

I don't believe in dumb questions, only dumb answers.

Not of the World said:
I haven't the slightest idea.

I can't intelligently answer the question, unless I understand the question.

Not of the World · Dec 18, 2022

HARK! said:
I can't intelligently answer the question, unless I understand the question.

I understand. The problem is that I don't even understand my own question.

ozso · Dec 18, 2022

Can a Gentile become a Messianic?

HARK! · Dec 18, 2022

MMXX said:
Can a Gentile become a Messianic?

Absolutely! That is who Messiah was commissioned for.

ozso · Dec 18, 2022

Not of the World said:
Sorry if that's a really dumb question.

Can a Gentile be Messianic?

Perhaps you have heard of a Messianic Jew. But is it appropriate to refer to a Gentile as “Messianic”? A Messianic Jew is a Jewish person who practices Messianic Judaism. They share the same basic faith as other observant Jews throughout history. Their specific kind of Judaism, however, is one...

www.bethimmanuel.org

Soyeong · Dec 19, 2022

Not of the World said:
I understand that anyone can convert to Judaism, but that wouldn't necessarily make them a "Jew", right? Is it accurate to say that a Jew that worships Christ is a Messianic Jew but a non-Jew that worships Christ is merely a Christian and cannot be a Messianic Jew?

"Messianic Jew" refers to a Jew who practices Messianic Judaism while "Messianic Gentile" refers to a Gentile who practices Messianic Judaism.

Not of the World · Dec 19, 2022

Soyeong said:
"Messianic Jew" refers to a Jew who practices Messianic Judaism while "Messianic Gentile" refers to a Gentile who practices Messianic Judaism.

Ah ok. Thank you!

Lulav · Dec 19, 2022

You do not need to be a convert to Judaism to be Messianic.
If you want to follow Torah, keep the feasts, rest on Shabbat then
you can call yourself a Messianic Israelite.

HARK! · Dec 19, 2022

MMXX said:
Can a Gentile be Messianic?

Perhaps you have heard of a Messianic Jew. But is it appropriate to refer to a Gentile as “Messianic”? A Messianic Jew is a Jewish person who practices Messianic Judaism. They share the same basic faith as other observant Jews throughout history. Their specific kind of Judaism, however, is one...

www.bethimmanuel.org

Being Jewish means being part of a certain people group: a nation. As God promised Abraham, “I will make of you a great nation” (Genesis 12:2). And yet there are other nations that are blessed by God as well. God promised Abraham, “in your offspring shall all the nations of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 22:18).

In Hebrew, the same word means both “Gentiles” and “nations.” Being a Gentile is a wonderful thing! Judaism does not consider being Jewish any better than being a Gentile. While the two groups have different roles and responsibilities, both are accepted by God for who they are.

Can a Gentile be Messianic?

Perhaps you have heard of a Messianic Jew. But is it appropriate to refer to a Gentile as “Messianic”? A Messianic Jew is a Jewish person who practices Messianic Judaism. They share the same basic faith as other observant Jews throughout history. Their specific kind of Judaism, however, is one...

www.bethimmanuel.org

Faulty doctrine.

First the promise to Abraham was not exclusive to the Tribe of Judah, nor even the Southern Tribes.

YHWH's covenant is with Israel. This includes those of the mixed multitude at Sinai.

Being a Goy is not a "wonderful thing."

YHWH's renewed covenant is not with the Goyim. It is still with Israel.

(CLV) Jer 31:33
For this is the covenant which I shall contract with the house of Israel after those days, averring is Yahweh: I will put My law within them, And I shall write it on their heart; I will become their Elohim, And they shall become My people.

Yahshua was commissioned for none for none but the lost sheep of Israel.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Just as in the days of Sinai, the mixed multitude, the (A.K.A Gentiles, the nations, Goyim) must submit to YHWH's will to enter his covenant.

Paul gives his students some insight into the TaNaK.

Ephesians 2

11 Wherefore, remember that once you, the nations (Gentiles) in flesh - who are termed 'Uncircumcision' by those termed 'Circumcision,' in flesh, made by hands -"

Not anymore!

12 that you were, in that era, apart from Christ, being alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and guests of the promise covenants, having no expectation, and without God in the world."

Not anymore! Hmmm...covenants, plural.

13 Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you, who once are far off, are become near by the blood of Christ."

Citizens of Israel.

HARK! · Dec 19, 2022

Soyeong said:
"Messianic Jew" refers to a Jew who practices Messianic Judaism while "Messianic Gentile" refers to a Gentile who practices Messianic Judaism.

Once one enters covenant, he is no longer a Goy. He is a fellow citizen of Israel.

ozso · Dec 19, 2022

Who were the Jews Paul spoke of?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. Romans 1:16

HARK! · Dec 19, 2022

MMXX said:
Who were the Jews Paul spoke of?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. Romans 1:16

The word here is not "Gentile." It's "Greek (ελληνι)."

(CLV) Ro 1:16
For not ashamed am I of the evangel, for it is God's power for salvation to everyone who is believing—to the Jew first, and to the Greek as well.

Did not the Judaeans, in Paul's day, believe before the Greeks?

We see Paul use this word again here:

(CLV) Ga 3:28
in Whom there is no Jew nor yet Greek, there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus.

Num 15:15
As for the assembly, there shall be one statute for you and for the sojourner sojourning with you. It shall be an eonian (FOREVER) statute throughout your generations. Like you so shall the sojourner be before Yahweh.

One Israel

ozso · Dec 19, 2022

So the Jews that Paul spoke of were Judaeans.

HARK! · Dec 19, 2022

MMXX said:
So the Jews that Paul spoke of were Judaeans.

Ro 1:16 ιουδαιω - to-JUDA-an

disciple Clint · Dec 19, 2022

Not of the World said:
Sorry if that's a really dumb question.

someone who is not Jewish can be a Messianic Christian and so can someone who is Jewish

Can a non-Jewish person be a Messianic Jew?

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