Why did Jesus tell the thief that he would be in paradise with Him that same day?

friend of · Dec 17, 2022

Jesus said He would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth following His crucifixion in Matthew 12:40

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

But Jesus also said to the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise

So this seems like a contradiction, doesn't it? Was He in two places at once? The heart of the earth, where Jesus went to preach to the spirits in captivity as per 1 Peter 3:19, is surely not paradise by any stretch of the imagination.

Acts 1:2-3 mentions that He had not yet ascended to heaven, but was with them for 40 days.

...until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen
After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God

John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary not to cling to Him for He had not ascended yet.

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God

Acts 1:9-11 describes precisely when Jesus ascends to heaven.

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Question: why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise "today" when scripture clearly teaches that Jesus descended to the realm of the dead and then resurrected to spend 40 days with His disciples?

Answer: The best answer I can think of is simply that God views time differently than we do, I guess.

Can anyone resolve this seeming contradiction?

sandman · Dec 17, 2022

He didn't

SabbathBlessings · Dec 17, 2022

There are no commas in the original Greek. The way it should read is
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

sandman · Dec 17, 2022

Two things ....It was a malefactor that Jesus gave that quote to Not a ~~thief~~ robber

A malefactor and a thief (robber) are two different categories of unlawfulness.

My KJV and most other versions has “thieves” and that is an incorrect translation….The Greeks use an entirely different word for a thief which is “kleptes” …… A robber lēstēs… which is the Greek word used in this account … is one who plunders openly and by violence.

Kakourgos = Malefactor… is a criminal, an evil doer.

Both the robbers (dyo lēstēs) cast the same in his teeth.

Only one of the malefactors (Kakourgos) railed on him and the other stated; “Lord remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom”

Luk 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

We know from scripture that upon death Jesus was entombed for 3 days and 3 nights …Jesus did not go to paradise…. He was in the grave….. So something cannot be right with this verse in Luke …. otherwise we have to make up things to allow this to fit.

Knowing that punctuation, chapters, verses marking, chapter headings … were added by translators and they are not always accurate ….sometimes swayed by their beliefs other times just mistakes… Luk 23:43 is a good example.

If you remove the comma from after thee and place it after to day you will have an accurate rendering of

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

I say unto thee to day or I say unto thee was a common idiom that is used frequently throughout the Word of God.

Paradise is someplace here on earth paradise is not heaven and neither Jesus nor the malefactor went there upon death. But the malefactor will be with Jesus when He returns as Lord of Lords and King of Kings here on earth.

friend of · Dec 17, 2022

So all of the translations have it wrong then, and the comma is in the wrong place in all of them? Just look

Luke 23:43 - The Crucifixion

And Jesus said to him, Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.

biblehub.com

Guojing · Dec 17, 2022

friend of said:
Jesus said He would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth following His crucifixion in Matthew 12:40

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

But Jesus also said to the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise

So this seems like a contradiction, doesn't it? Was He in two places at once? The heart of the earth, where Jesus went to preach to the spirits in captivity as per 1 Peter 3:19, is surely not paradise by any stretch of the imagination.

Acts 1:2-3 mentions that He had not yet ascended to heaven, but was with them for 40 days.

...until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen
After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God

John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary not to cling to Him for He had not ascended yet.

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God

Acts 1:9-11 describes precisely when Jesus ascends to heaven.

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Question: why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise "today" when scripture clearly teaches that Jesus descended to the realm of the dead and then resurrected to spend 40 days with His disciples?

Answer: The best answer I can think of is simply that God views time differently than we do, I guess.

Can anyone resolve this seeming contradiction?

All Jews who remained with the nation of Israel and their covenant with God, will go to Abraham's bosom/Paradise, on their deaths.

They will wait there until the 2nd coming of Christ where all their sins would be forgiven as a nation (Acts 3:19-21, Hebrews 8:8-12).

Even though Christ will be resurrected, it does not mean the thief was as well, he remains in paradise to wait.

friend of · Dec 17, 2022

Guojing said:
All Jews who remained with the nation of Israel and their covenant with God, will go to Abraham's bosom/Paradise, on their deaths.

They will wait there until the 2nd coming of Christ where all their sins would be forgiven as a nation (Acts 3:19-21, Hebrews 8:8-12).

Even though Christ will be resurrected, it does not mean the thief was as well, he remains in paradise to wait.

Thanks that's a pretty good answer. The only issue is that Jesus said he would be with Him that day. I don't think Jesus was in the bosom of abraham that day, was He?

Guojing · Dec 17, 2022

friend of said:
Thanks that's a pretty good answer. The only issue is that Jesus said he would be with Him that day. I don't think Jesus was in the bosom of abraham that day, was He?

He spent 3 days at the heart of the earth (Matt. 12:40), the location of Abraham's bosom.

He died on the cross on the 1st day, which was also the moment he went to Abraham's bosom.

friend of · Dec 17, 2022

Guojing said:
He spent 3 days at the heart of the earth (Matt. 12:40), the location of Abraham's bosom.

He died on the cross on the 1st day, which was also the moment he went to Abraham's bosom.

It says He went to the spirits in prison. Abraham's bosom is not a prison?

Guojing · Dec 17, 2022

friend of said:
It says He went to the spirits in prison. Abraham's bosom is not a prison?

I didn't say it was.

I am saying when scripture states "heart of the Earth", its a reference for Abraham's bosom.

sandman · Dec 17, 2022

friend of said:
So all of the translations have it wrong then, and the comma is in the wrong place in all of them? Just look

Luke 23:43 - The Crucifixion

And Jesus said to him, Truly I tell you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.

biblehub.com

Most just follow religion…and religion has had it wrong for years along with countless other things that surround the crucifixion.

The Lamsa Aramaic Peshitta has it correct.

Luke 23:43 - Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise.

If you put the malefactor and Jesus in paradise that day…. it would evoke several contradictions. Just putting the malefactor in paradise would still cause several contradictions.

Punctuation is mans interpretation …not God’s. I am thankful for it…. but there are countless errors throughout the Word caused by punctuation, chapter and verse divisions.

BPPLEE · Dec 17, 2022

friend of said:
Jesus said He would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth following His crucifixion in Matthew 12:40

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

But Jesus also said to the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise

So this seems like a contradiction, doesn't it? Was He in two places at once? The heart of the earth, where Jesus went to preach to the spirits in captivity as per 1 Peter 3:19, is surely not paradise by any stretch of the imagination.

Acts 1:2-3 mentions that He had not yet ascended to heaven, but was with them for 40 days.

...until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen
After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God

John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary not to cling to Him for He had not ascended yet.

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God

Acts 1:9-11 describes precisely when Jesus ascends to heaven.

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Question: why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise "today" when scripture clearly teaches that Jesus descended to the realm of the dead and then resurrected to spend 40 days with His disciples?

Answer: The best answer I can think of is simply that God views time differently than we do, I guess.

Can anyone resolve this seeming contradiction?

If you read the story of Lazarus and the rich man the dwelling place of the damned and Paradise were separated by a gulf they were both in the heart of the earth.Jesus told the thief he would be with him in Paradise, not Heaven

friend of · Dec 17, 2022

BPPLEE said:
If you read the story of Lazarus and the rich man the dwelling place of the damned and Paradise were separated by a gulf they were both in the heart of the earth.Jesus told the thief he would be with him in Paradise, not Heaven

Okay. I guess God's presence resides in the bosom of Abraham and Jesus, being God, would be present there as well.

Thanks for the clarification.

Guojing · Dec 17, 2022

friend of said:
Okay. I guess God's presence resides in the bosom of Abraham and Jesus, being God, would be present there as well.

Thanks for the clarification.

God is always in heaven.

Think of Abraham's bosom as a holding area where the faithful Jewish remnant wait for Jesus's 2nd coming for the nation of Israel, to begin the New Covenant with them (Hebrews 8:8-12, Acts 3:19-21)

When that happens, they will resurrect and take their places in the promised kingdom on Earth in Jerusalem (Daniel 12:2, Ezekiel 37)

sandman · Dec 17, 2022

God did not use the word paradise in Luk 16:22 … that is made up by man ….it’s religion…..and it is a disservice to the Truth.

“Abraham’s Bosom” is not paradise …it’s not anything except Talmudic traditions and beliefs that the Pharisees believed in. It was they, not Jesus, who coined the phrase “Abraham’s Bosom.

Paradise is a short word study in the Bible as it’s only used 3x.

The verse in Luk 23:43 when Jesus spoke to the malefactor (not thief)…. this verse in 2Co 12:4 and in Rev 2:7 ….

The only people who have seen Paradise (as of yet) is both Paul and John in a vision/revelation which Paul was not given permission to disclose (it was for his benefit) ….John was given permission and inspiration to write….. Revelation. And that is where and when paradise will be …and that is when and where the malefactor will be…..with Jesus.

friend of · Dec 17, 2022

sandman said:
“Abraham’s Bosom” is not paradise …it’s not anything except Talmudic traditions and beliefs that the Pharisees believed in. It was they, not Jesus, who coined the phrase “Abraham’s Bosom.

When Jesus was telling the story of the rich man and Lazarus it was Jesus we mentioned Abraham's Bosom. So I think you're wrong on this.

sandman · Dec 17, 2022

friend of said:
When Jesus was telling the story of the rich man and Lazarus it was Jesus we mentioned Abraham's Bosom. So I think you're wrong on this.

Correct ..
Jesus did say it…. but it was them (the Pharisees) who coined the phrase.
According to their Talmudic beliefs the Pharisees believed in all sorts of Babylonian junk including reincarnation…. and several were into even more vial things …. It had been 400 years without a man of God and these guys who were supposed to be the custodians of truth, were anything but that.

The purpose of the what I believe is a parable (but that is irrelevant) is concluded in Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

His intention was not to contradict the entire Old Testament by teaching survival after death. His primary intention was to show that the Pharisees were so evil that even if someone rose from the dead they still wouldn’t listen to him

How prophetic it was, as evidenced by his own resurrection from the dead, many of the Pharisees did not believe.

disciple Clint · Dec 18, 2022

friend of said:
Jesus said He would be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth following His crucifixion in Matthew 12:40

For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

But Jesus also said to the thief on the cross "today you will be with me in paradise" Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise

So this seems like a contradiction, doesn't it? Was He in two places at once? The heart of the earth, where Jesus went to preach to the spirits in captivity as per 1 Peter 3:19, is surely not paradise by any stretch of the imagination.

Acts 1:2-3 mentions that He had not yet ascended to heaven, but was with them for 40 days.

...until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen
After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God

John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary not to cling to Him for He had not ascended yet.

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God

Acts 1:9-11 describes precisely when Jesus ascends to heaven.

After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight
They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them.
Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

Question: why did Jesus tell the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise "today" when scripture clearly teaches that Jesus descended to the realm of the dead and then resurrected to spend 40 days with His disciples?

Answer: The best answer I can think of is simply that God views time differently than we do, I guess.

Can anyone resolve this seeming contradiction?

There has always been a separation of believers and unbelievers after death (Luke 16:19-31). The righteous have always gone to paradise; the wicked have always gone to hell. For right now, both paradise and hell are “temporary holding places” until the day when Jesus Christ comes back to judge the world based on whether or not individuals have believed in Him. The first resurrection is of believers who will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive rewards based on meritorious service to Him. The second resurrection will be that of unbelievers who will stand before the Great White Throne Judgment of God. At that point, all will be sent to their eternal destination—the wicked to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15), and the righteous to a new heaven and a new earth (Revelation 21—22). What is paradise? Is paradise a different place than Heaven? | GotQuestions.org

Guojing · Dec 18, 2022

disciple Clint said:
There has always been a separation of believers and unbelievers after death (Luke 16:19-31). The righteous have always gone to paradise; the wicked have always gone to hell. For right now, both paradise and hell are “temporary holding places” until the day when Jesus Christ comes back to judge the world based on whether or not individuals have believed in Him. The first resurrection is of believers who will stand before the Judgment Seat of Christ to receive rewards based on meritorious service to Him. The second resurrection will be that of unbelievers who will stand before the Great White Throne Judgment of God. At that point, all will be sent to their eternal destination—the wicked to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15), and the righteous to a new heaven and a new earth (Revelation 21—22). What is paradise? Is paradise a different place than Heaven? | GotQuestions.org

That is only for Israel's remnant.

For the Body of Christ, to be absent from our body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:8)

BPPLEE · Dec 18, 2022

friend of said:
Okay. I guess God's presence resides in the bosom of Abraham and Jesus, being God, would be present there as well.

Thanks for the clarification.

That changed after the resurrection.

Why did Jesus tell the thief that he would be in paradise with Him that same day?

A private in Gods army

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

A private in Gods army

Well-Known Member

A private in Gods army

Well-Known Member

A private in Gods army

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

A private in Gods army

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

A private in Gods army

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads