Obedience Motivated by Love, Not Law

Soyeong said:

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus did not criticize the Pharisees for obeying God's law, but he did criticize them for not obeying it correctly, and call them to a fuller obedience to it in a manner that was in accordance with its weightier matters and free from hypocrisy. Furthermore, the way to have a relationship with God is through expressing the weightier matters of the law that are aspects of God's nature. God has given as a gift instructions to His people for how to love Him and have a relationship with Him, but for some reason you think that the way to do those things is by refusing to follow His instructions for how to do them as if you don't think that God should be trusted to correctly teach us how to do those things.

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SabbathBlessings said:

Thats not what the clear scripture says, unless you think the saints are the lost.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Guess who wants us to not keep the commandments of God?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Who is the Holy Spirit given to?

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Which is why one of the very last scriptures before the Second Coming of Jesus says:

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 and breaking all of the commandments see 1 John 2:4). The commandments are a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and James says you break one commandment quoting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12

We should all pray we don't hear these Words Jesus predicted at His Second Coming, who cannot lie

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Today, we have time to repent and change our path, but we don't know what tomorrow brings and we might not have time to do so. Jesus wants us changed from the inside out. We keep His commandments through love 1 John 5:3 and faith Romans 3:31 and believe what God asks of us is because it is for our own good. When we obey God, we are placing our faith in Him, when we do what we want, we are placing our trust in ourselves. We cannot save ourselves, only God can, and we are sanctified through His Word John 17:17, not our words.

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SabbathBlessings said:

Everyone has sinned and has fallen short, but that doesn't mean through Jesus Christ, He can't give us victory over sin. The bible claims He can, so I believe in the scriptures. Revelation 14:12 I believe Jesus is greater than our sins, what we cannot do on our own, we can do through Christ including overcoming sin. Philippians 4:13 There is no scripture that says our sin is too great so stop trying to obey God's commandments. This thinking shows the devil is more powerful to keep us in sin than God is to help us overcome sin. I don't believe this. If we stumble and fall, we have an Advocate with Jesus who is just to forgive us of our sins, but if we keep willfully sinning after knowing the truth, there remains no more sacrifice. Hebrews 10:26-30

Faith does not void the law, it establishes the law. Romans 3:31. When we do what we want instead of what God commands of His children it shows one is placing trust in their own works which is not saving instead of faith in God who gives us righteous commands Psalms 119:172 because He knows what is best for us.

Paul puts it this way:

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

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SabbathBlessings said:

Many people misunderstand Paul and even in his day 2 Peter 3:16. Paul is not teaching that we do not need to keep God’s commandments because its too hard so we can live in perpetual sin and stop trying and Paul is not teaching the opposite of what Jesus taught or is contradicting himself when he tells us keeping the commandment of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19

The purpose of the law is that it points out sin. We do not define right or wrong doing, God does and through the law is what defines sin. 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7. Where there is no law there is no sin Romans 4:15. Lucifer thought he did not need to obey the law so its not wise to have this same type of thinking and Jesus gives us plenty of warnings to not go down this path. Matthew 5:19, Matthew 7:21-23, John 14:15, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19

While it is impossible to keep the commandments without the power of Jesus, but with Christ all things are possible. Philippians 4:13 Do you not believe this? Jesus would not ask us to keep something if it were impossible to keep, especially something we will all be judged by James 2:10-12. Who do you think wants us to believe we can’t overcome sin and that the devil has more power to keep us living in sin than Jesus Christ does to help us overcome sin? 1 John 3:8. When Jesus healed someone He said go and sin no more, not go and keep sinning.

When we have our mind set on flesh we are going to sin. When we have our mind set on Christ though His Spirit He can help us gain victory over sin. The law just points out sin so we know what not to do, so if we see sin in our life we can ask Jesus to help gain victory over sin so we can walk in His Spirit which is given to help us obey and to those who do obey. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

Paul also teaches this:

Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. If one sees themself not subject to God’s law thats not a good sign. Jesus can help with this, but one must be willing to completely surrender to Christ and ask Him to help overcome sin.

We can overcome sin through Jesus Christ and no where in scripture teaches you can live in perpetual sin and be saved. Hebrews 10:26-30. Walking the Christian path is not an easy one and it is the wide path that is teaching it is okay to sin, the narrow path we are told to take Matthew 7:13-14 and if we love Jesus, we will keep His commandments John 14:15 1 John 5:3, Exodus 20:6 and He provides us His Spirit so we can keep them John 14:16-18 and if we stumble and fall we can go directly ro Jesus for the forgiveness of sin but the God I believe in is greater at helping me overcome sin, it is the “other spirit” that is teaching churches and individuals it is okay to sin and don’t worry about overcoming it.

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SabbathBlessings said:

Is sin defeated? Not sure if you aware of what is going on in the world, but lawlessness is abound everywhere.

The Christian walk is a daily walk and the fact one is arguing over obeying God should really consider which side they are on in this spiritual war. We can overcome sin and obey God through the power of Jesus Christ. The commandments just points out sin so we know what we need to overcome.

The warning Jesus gives are to people who think they are saved, but they continue to do their will instead of God’s. God’s will and testimony was written by His own finger, spoken by His own voice placed in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy in God’s Temple which is also revealed in heaven Revelation 11:19. Those who practice lawlessness Jesus says I don’t know you. Matthew 7:21-23. We should trust Jesus means what He says.

The solution is to repent, and turn from our sin, be baptized and walk in obedience with God. Acts 2:38 Sin is bondage, obeying is freedom in Christ!

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SabbathBlessings said:

Correct you will never hear the SDA’s preach we can willingly sin and break God’s law, because there is no scripture that says this. Instead we have God, Jesus and all the apostles repeatedly teaching us to keep God’s commandments, so for me I am going to stick with the teachings from our Creator and Savior.

Not sure if you realize this but not all laws are the same. For instance God only wrote Ten Commandments with His own finger Exodus 34:28 on stone Exodus Exodus 31:18 and only the Ten were placed inside the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple where He dwells under His mercy seat which is revealed in Heaven. Revelation 11:19 If God’s law is in Heaven do you really think you can willingly break these laws and live in God’s Kingdom? The devil thought so and he was thrown out. 1 John 3:8 All other laws were placed outside the ark and were written in a book in the Law of Moses handwritten by Moses on paper- so all laws are not the same.

We also have scripture clearly telling us there are different categories of the laws, so not all laws are the same.

Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.


Which laws ended in scripture?

Eph 2:5 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

These are the laws that have to do with the ceremonial and sacrificial system that all point to Jesus as He because the Sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sins when we repent and turn from sin. Acts 2:38. Sin is the transgression of the law 1 John 3:4 and if we are free to sin, we would not need grace. Without grace as we all have sinned and come short, we would not need a Savior. If we don’t need a Savior than we would all be lost.

So you are reading into the scriptures that all the laws ended and please show me one scripture that says the commandments have ended and we can now worship other gods, vain God’s holy name, or can steal, murder or commit adultery or break any of God’s commandments. If such a big change in God’s Law that we are free to do these things we would have clear scripture saying so. Jesus taught us to keep the commandments of God over mans traditions Matthew 15:3-9 quoting right from the Ten and when we obey man over God one worships in vain. These are the very Words of Jesus- do you not have faith in His Words?

Jesus did not teach lawlessness so what you are teaching here does not match the biblical scriptures. The heaven and earth has not passed and there is still sin in the world so not all has been fulfilled. Jesus did not die so we can live a lawless life. Jesus came to this world as our example, who was tempted and overcame sin. 1 Peter 2:21-22 and Jesus kept all of His Fathers commandments John 15:10 and tells us to John 14:15. He showed us the path to follow and if we follow the Lamb, and abide in Him and through Jesus we can gain victory over sin, instead of being a slave to sin which leads to death. Romans 6:16

You can keep believing that you are not required to keep any of God’s laws, but Jesus warned us of doing so. Matthew 7:21-23, Revelation 22:14-15. Living by faith means we uphold the teachings of Jesus, not casting them aside and living for ourselves.

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SabbathBlessings said:

I can't find the scripture that says the law has been replaced by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit convicts us of sin if we have not hardened our hearts and will listen.

John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

Which should hopefully lead us to repent of our sins, turn from sin and walk in obedience to God's law through a changed heart and becoming a new creation in Christ through His Spirit that obeys Him and keep His commandments because of love and faith.

Acts 2:38 “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus says we will receive the Holy Spirit if we keep His commandments:

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

So the Holy Spirit has not replaced God's law, it is given to us to help keep God's commandments and will convict us when we break them and sin. We should be uncomfortable sinning, but if we are practicing sinning and it doesn't bother us, that is not a good sign.

How do we become one of God's people in Christ? God says God's people keep His laws in both heart and mind.

Hebrews 8:10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

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SabbathBlessings said:

Paul said the law contained in ordinances (sacrificial system) has been nailed to the cross, not the commandments or other laws. Paul said what matters is keeping the commandments of God. 1 Cor 7:19 and is not teaching something different than Jesus who says If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 Paul tells us we ought to obey God over man, so even if Paul was teaching this, which he is not, Jesus does not teach lawlessness.

We do not determine what is right or wrong, God sets forth the standard of all right-doing Psalms 119:172 and there is no violation when we keep His commandments which should be done through faith and love. Romans 3:31, 1 John 5:3. Exodus 20:6

Anyway, it doesn’t sound like we will come to any agreement on God’s laws, so I will leave it with I wish you well in seeking His Word. God bless!

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SabbathBlessings said:

So we should ignore God who writes His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant.Hebrews 8:10 Please show scripture that says faith voids Gods law? Paul tells us the opposite. Romans 3:31.

If scripture shows us the fruit of a saved person are law abiding people you seem to be on the wrong side of this. Revelation 14:12

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Leaf473 said:

I'm surprised that passage doesn't come up more often in law discussions. I used to be on a different Christian forum where every time someone brought that up, he would say that it means more like Christ is the goal of the law. I think the idea was that you kept the law in order to achieve Christ.

But looking at the word study below, I don't think that's what it means. (And maybe this has all been hashed out previously on this thread.)
Strong's Greek: 5056. τέλος (telos) -- an end, a toll

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