What does John 20:22 and 23 saying ?

Guojing · May 21, 2022

Davy said:
Yeah, they could, because Jesus specifically gave that to them as He 'sent' them (thus the meaning of the word 'apostle', to be sent). But to the rest of us today, no. Jesus has not appeared to us saying that we have the power to remit nor stay sins.

Nice that you realize this, but when you read the final verses in Matthew, the so-called Great Commission.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Would you likewise also agree that, this passage was a specific instruction to them as well, but to the rest of us today, no?

Davy · May 21, 2022

Guojing said:
Nice that you realize this, but when you read the final verses in Matthew, the so-called Great Commission.

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Would you likewise also agree that, this passage was a specific instruction to them as well, but to the rest of us today, no?

As for preaching The Gospel yes, but with power to raise the dead like Christ gave His 12 Apostles, no. Or have you seen any preacher of late raise someone from the dead? Therefore, we must recognize that 'we' in Christ still are not equals in comparison to His 'chosen' Apostles at His 1st coming. Like Jesus said, many are called, but few are chosen.

Jesus is YHWH · May 21, 2022

Bob corrigan said:
Hmm, curious. Jesus, in all of the gospels, never uttered the word grace once in anything He said. I am not discounting grace, but am addressing what you have said, that the gospel message today is about being saved by grace. Yet, I have only found one verse that states, "saved by grace " Eph 2:5. This was written by Paul, not said by Jesus. The main teaching on how one becomes saved is through belief in/on Jesus. Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith. Yes, God shows His grace toward believers by making salvation possible. But to say that the gospel of the Kingdom has been put aside shows that you must not be familiar with this concept. I'm going to shorten the phrase, kingdom of God or kingdom of heaven to KOG.

1-Do you own a concordance ? yes or no
2-If you why do you sat things about Jesus that are not true regarding grace ?
3- Jesus used the word grace below several times in Luke's gospel below :

Luke 6:32 N-NFS
GRK: ποία ὑμῖν χάρις ἐστίν καὶ
NAS: you, what credit is [that] to you? For even
KJV: you, what thank have ye?
INT: what to you credit is it even

Luke 6:33 N-NFS
GRK: ποία ὑμῖν χάρις ἐστίν καὶ
NAS: to you, what credit is [that] to you? For even
KJV: to you, what thank have ye?
INT: what to you credit is it For even

Luke 6:34 N-NFS
GRK: ποία ὑμῖν χάρις ἐστίν καὶ
NAS: what credit is [that] to you? Even
KJV: to receive, what thank have ye?
INT: what to you credit is it even

Luke 17:9 N-AFS
GRK: μὴ ἔχει χάριν τῷ δούλῳ
NAS: He does not thank the slave because
KJV: Doth he thank that servant
INT: not Is he thankful the servant

hope this helps !!!

Guojing · May 21, 2022

Davy said:
As for preaching The Gospel yes, but with power to raise the dead like Christ gave His 12 Apostles, no. Or have you seen any preacher of late raise someone from the dead? Therefore, we must recognize that 'we' in Christ still are not equals in comparison to His 'chosen' Apostles at His 1st coming. Like Jesus said, many are called, but few are chosen.

Of course, we are to preach the gospel, that was not my question.

My question was, since

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Since both have the term them, and you believe John 20:22-23 was an instruction only to the 12 apostles, why don't you also believe that Matthew 28:18-20 was also an instruction only to the 12?

What is the difference?

Davy · May 22, 2022

Guojing said:
Of course, we are to preach the gospel, that was not my question.

My question was, since

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Since both have the term them, and you believe John 20:22-23 was an instruction only to the 12 apostles, why don't you also believe that Matthew 28:18-20 was also an instruction only to the 12?

What is the difference?

I already answered that, and I never said I did not believe what Jesus said in Matthew 28, so you must be hearing voices.

What I said before still applies...

As for preaching The Gospel yes, but with power to raise the dead like Christ gave His 12 Apostles, no. Or have you seen any preacher of late raise someone from the dead? Therefore, we must recognize that 'we' in Christ still are not equals in comparison to His 'chosen' Apostles at His 1st coming. Like Jesus said, many are called, but few are chosen.

Guojing · May 23, 2022

Davy said:
I already answered that, and I never said I did not believe what Jesus said in Matthew 28, so you must be hearing voices.

I am not asking whether or not you believe what Jesus said in Matthew 28.

I am asking whether you believe Matthew 28:18-20 was also an instruction only to the 12, just like what you claim John 20:22-23 was.

Davy · May 23, 2022

Guojing said:
I am not asking whether or not you believe what Jesus said in Matthew 28.

I am asking whether you believe Matthew 28:18-20 was also an instruction only to the 12, just like what you claim John 20:22-23 was.

Sorry, I don't pay attention to those who try to create traps with loaded questions that I have already well answered per Scripture.

Guojing · May 23, 2022

Davy said:
Sorry, I don't pay attention to those who try to create traps with loaded questions that I have already well answered per Scripture.

My original question to you was found here What does John 20:22 and 23 saying ?

Would you likewise also agree that, this passage was a specific instruction to them as well, but to the rest of us today, no?

Can you point out the post where you actually answered my question with a

Yes I agree
or
No I disagree

If not, please don't claim that you have "well answered it".

Davy · May 24, 2022

Guojing said:
My original question to you was found here What does John 20:22 and 23 saying ?

Can you point out the post where you actually answered my question with a

Yes I agree
or
No I disagree

If not, please don't claim that you have "well answered it".

Lawyers, no wonder even Lord Jesus lost His patience with them...

Dan Perez · May 24, 2022

Bob corrigan said:
Hello Dan. When one isolates a single verse and tries to determine the meaning of that single verse, it is usually not possible to determine the accurate meaning of the verse by only looking at that one verse. Obviously, only God/Jesus can forgive sins. Context is what is needed here. Jesus was speaking to the Apostles in their position as his direct representatives with the authority to correctly teach Scripture. Something not covered or taught about is a crucial necessity for bible teachers to correctly teach Scripture to those being taught. All of the books in the New Testament contain the debunking of false teaching and correctly teaching the truth of Scripture. Jesus told the Apostles that they would have the authority to "bind and loose." This was a Jewish idiom that meant the speaker would declare what was actual Torah and what was not Torah. In other words, the authority to teach what was true or false. In the original text, Mat 16:19 reads,
"And I will give to you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. (In that culture, when one was given a key by a ruler, it meant that the one who had the key of the king meant that he had and could exercise the authority of the king as if he was the king himself). And whatsoever you shall bind (declare wrong) on earth, having already been bound in heaven, (my insertion) will be bound on earth and whatsoever you loose (declare to be true), having already been loosed in heaven (will be loosed on earth) Jesus did not give them the authority to give their opinions about what they thought, no, they would be speaking from what Scripture stated. They were going to the voice of God, just as the true prophets spoke forth the word of God.
Four times in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit is called the "Spirit of truth," John 14:17, 15:26, 16:13, and 1John 5:6. Thus, we can easily state that when one is given the Holy Spirit it is the same as being given the truth. John 16:13 says that the Holy Spirit will guide them into all of the truth. So, what we get from the Holy Spirit is Scripture wisdom, knowledge and truth.
So, after the Apostles received the Holy Spirit, they would gain the knowledge, through the study of Scripture, which sins God would forgive and which sins God would not forgive.

Can Peter and the 12 now remit sins >

what say you ?

dan p

[/QUOTE]

And I have checked the Greek text , and my KJV reads in verse 22 , Receive ye ( THE ) HOLY SPIRIT .

But the Greek word ( THE ) is not in the Greek text and should read RECEIVE YE HOLY SPIRIT .

Jesus has now given the disciples , POWER OF HOLY SPIRIT .

If it reads REVIEVE ye n the HOLY SPIRIT , it than means the INDWELLING of the HOLY SPIRIT .

Look at STRONG'S or look , where BULLINGER wrote a book on the word ( THE ) called THE GIVER AND HIKS GIFTS and he gives a , look on the Greek word THE which is called the DEFINITE ARTICLE .

dan p

Davy · May 25, 2022

And I have checked the Greek text , and my KJV reads in verse 22 , Receive ye ( THE ) HOLY SPIRIT .

But the Greek word ( THE ) is not in the Greek text and should read RECEIVE YE HOLY SPIRIT .

Jesus has now given the disciples , POWER OF HOLY SPIRIT .

If it reads REVEIVE ye n the HOLY SPIRIT , it than means the n INDWELLING of the HOLY SPIRIT .

Look at STRONG'S or look , where BULLONGER wrote a book on the word ( THE ) called THE GIVER AND HIKS GIFTS and he gives a , look on the Greek word THE which is called the DEFINITE ARTICLE .

dan p[/QUOTE]

Very weak... argument.

Dan Perez · Jun 4, 2022

Davy said:
And I have checked the Greek text , and my KJV reads in verse 22 , Receive ye ( THE ) HOLY SPIRIT .

But the Greek word ( THE ) is not in the Greek text and should read RECEIVE YE HOLY SPIRIT .

Jesus has now given the disciples , POWER OF HOLY SPIRIT .

If it reads REVEIVE ye n the HOLY SPIRIT , it than means the n INDWELLING of the HOLY SPIRIT .

Look at STRONG'S or look , where BULLONGER wrote a book on the word ( THE ) called THE GIVER AND HIKS GIFTS and he gives a , look on the Greek word THE which is called the DEFINITE ARTICLE .

Very weak... argument.[/QUOTE]

That is the Greek Text , sorry !!

dan p

Davy · Jun 5, 2022

Dan Perez said:
Very weak... argument.

That is the Greek Text , sorry !!

dan p[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I did NOT write that. dan p wrote that. That quote was messed up. But you made... it look like I said that quote in post #32 and I did not.

What does John 20:22 and 23 saying ?

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my Lord and my God !

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