Has anyone been thru a Mormon temple?

Wrigley · Apr 4, 2003

4th April 2003 at 02:10 PM Tawhano said this in Post #440

I am finding this thread both interesting and disturbing. Prior to getting married last year my wife and I discussed our beliefs and came to the conclusion that even though I was anti-religious and she was a Mormon we could peacefully co-exist because, basically, we believed in the same God. This thread mirrors our differences.

One of the things that troubles me so is that on the face of it my wifes ability to enter into the kingdom of God rest on me accepting Mormonism and then calling her up with me. Is this a true statement, or am I missing the point?

She won't be able to get to the highest]/b] level of heaven without you calling her.

And the only way you can call her is to become Mormon, go thru the Temple Ceremonies, be eteranally sealed to her, then after you both die, call her with her Temple name.

Wrigley · Apr 4, 2003

4th April 2003 at 02:10 PM Tawhano said this in Post #440

I am finding this thread both interesting and disturbing. Prior to getting married last year my wife and I discussed our beliefs and came to the conclusion that even though I was anti-religious and she was a Mormon we could peacefully co-exist because, basically, we believed in the same God. This thread mirrors our differences.

One of the things that troubles me so is that on the face of it my wifes ability to enter into the kingdom of God rest on me accepting Mormonism and then calling her up with me. Is this a true statement, or am I missing the point?

I'll just throw this out there.

How seriously Mormon is your wife if she married outside of her faith? Why would someone put at risk your potential salvation, in the hands of someone who isn't Mormon.

You also used the past tense when you say, "was anti-religious" are you now "pro-religious?"

Tawhano · Apr 4, 2003

How seriously Mormon is your wife if she married outside of her faith?

From the comparison of her arguments to the arguments presenting by other Mormons on this and other forums my guess is she is very serious. In my experience, women dont marry men for what they are but what they can make of them.

I am still anti-religious. I believe religion is the harlot of Babylon. 

I am searching Mormon sites for the answer to my question as well and I believe what you told me, Wrigley, is in line with what they teach. Perhaps Jodrey can confirm that with his Bishop or something.

rnmomof7 · Apr 4, 2003

4th April 2003 at 02:10 PM Tawhano said this in Post #440

I am finding this thread both interesting and disturbing. Prior to getting married last year my wife and I discussed our beliefs and came to the conclusion that even though I was anti-religious and she was a Mormon we could peacefully co-exist because, basically, we believed in the same God. This thread mirrors our differences.

One of the things that troubles me so is that on the face of it my wifes ability to enter into the kingdom of God rest on me accepting Mormonism and then calling her up with me. Is this a true statement, or am I missing the point?

I would say your wife is a nominal or cultural mormon if she married a non mormon.
She is not sealed to you for eternity , so that keeps her out of the celestial kingdom

If you believe in polytheism then you have the same gods..

If you believe that jesus and lucifer are spirit brothers you believe in the same god

If you believe god was once a man and the trinity is really "a godhead with 3 gods in it" then you believe in the same god

I think it would be best to repent and believe and have your wife do the same..Trust me

jodrey · Apr 4, 2003

I've known some great people (Mormons) who have married outside the Church. It's recommended against, but it doesn't mean a person is evil or non-religious. You're getting into a subject I don't understand so well, since I haven't yet come to that point in my life. I would suggest you talk to your wife about it, and maybe with an LDS religious authority, like a bishop or home teacher on the subject. At any rate, I'm not the right person to ask, and since it would be a personal question, really, I wouldn't discuss it here.

I think it should be clarified: being sealed in the temple is necessary for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, but that does not necessarily apply that exaltation in itself. It's not simply a procedure to "get into the celestial kingdom": keep the commandments, go to the temple, badda-bing, badda-boom, you're in -- no, it's not like that at all. It's very individual, and many people will not go to the celestial kingdom, even many Mormons. I'm not going to get into it, but I think that distinction should be seen.

Wrigley has said it right: I think much of our argument has been one-sided but in different words. Mormons believe as I have stated, and we are taught as I have stated. No big conflict there.

calgal · Apr 4, 2003

4th April 2003 at 07:23 PM jodrey said this in Post #445

I've known some great people (Mormons) who have married outside the Church. It's recommended against, but it doesn't mean a person is evil or non-religious. You're getting into a subject I don't understand so well, since I haven't yet come to that point in my life. I would suggest you talk to your wife about it, and maybe with an LDS religious authority, like a bishop or home teacher on the subject. At any rate, I'm not the right person to ask, and since it would be a personal question, really, I wouldn't discuss it here.

I think it should be clarified: being sealed in the temple is necessary for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, but that does not necessarily apply that exaltation in itself. It's not simply a procedure to "get into the celestial kingdom": keep the commandments, go to the temple, badda-bing, badda-boom, you're in -- no, it's not like that at all. It's very individual, and many people will not go to the celestial kingdom, even many Mormons. I'm not going to get into it, but I think that distinction should be seen.

Wrigley has said it right: I think much of our argument has been one-sided but in different words. Mormons believe as I have stated, and we are taught as I have stated. No big conflict there.

The trouble is Jodrey, that the philosophies of man mingled with scripture that you are learning as a Mormon present a distorted picture of the nature of God. The Lord does not expect ANY human being to attain the knowlegde, understanding, power and majesty of God. The conflict is between the distortions you learn and the reality of God.

Wrigley · Apr 5, 2003

4th April 2003 at 10:23 PM jodrey said this in Post #445

I've known some great people (Mormons) who have married outside the Church. It's recommended against, but it doesn't mean a person is evil or non-religious. You're getting into a subject I don't understand so well, since I haven't yet come to that point in my life. I would suggest you talk to your wife about it, and maybe with an LDS religious authority, like a bishop or home teacher on the subject. At any rate, I'm not the right person to ask, and since it would be a personal question, really, I wouldn't discuss it here.

I think it should be clarified: being sealed in the temple is necessary for exaltation in the celestial kingdom, but that does not necessarily apply that exaltation in itself. It's not simply a procedure to "get into the celestial kingdom": keep the commandments, go to the temple, badda-bing, badda-boom, you're in -- no, it's not like that at all. It's very individual, and many people will not go to the celestial kingdom, even many Mormons. I'm not going to get into it, but I think that distinction should be seen.

Wrigley has said it right: I think much of our argument has been one-sided but in different words. Mormons believe as I have stated, and we are taught as I have stated. No big conflict there.

Hold on skippy. Where is there no big conflict? In what I said about the need for a temple sealing for the ultimate heaven? Or there is no big conflict between our understanding of Faith alone saving us?

Which one?

jodrey · Apr 5, 2003

The faith/grace/works thing. Skippy...?

calgal, the same could be said for any Christian denomination. All these churches interpret the Bible; it is never taken pure. If you can find me a church that follows the Bible in every way then... I'll eat my toes. Anyway, the philosophies of men always get mingled in with the Bible. Why do you think there are so many churches? Part of the reason is because there's so many doctrines. Why are there so many doctrines? Because there are many different ways of understanding the Bible. Most churches openly claim not to be led by God (revelation; prophets, apostles, etc), and are therefore led by men. I think if you want to make this accusation about the LDS, you best go take a look at the Catholics, Baptists, Pentecostals, and etc.

Hmmm... Actually, God does expect us to be "perfect" eventually. That's interesting, eh?

Wrigley · Apr 5, 2003

5th April 2003 at 09:49 AM jodrey said this in Post #448

The faith/grace/works thing. Skippy...?

I disagree with you then. There is a big difference in your understanding of what the Bible teaches. Don't pass that difference as a minor thing.

straightforward · Apr 5, 2003

4th April 2003 at 10:23 PM jodrey said this in Post #445
Wrigley has said it right: I think much of our argument has been one-sided but in different words. Mormons believe as I have stated, and we are taught as I have stated. No big conflict there.

I think you're twisting what Wrigley said to look the same as your view when it is not:

Actually, Wrigley said:

You have struck on one of the foundational issues. What is meant by the Mormons when they speak. From what I've seen here, and in other places, we are speaking the same words, but meaning different things.

The changes in the Mormon's meaning makes everything at the end, though it sounds the same, different.

It's NOT that as if we were looking at a flower and each describing it differently. Mormons are looking at a god who is different than the Christian God and using the same terminology to describe him but the terminology that we share has two different meanings. What you need to see is what the bible really means...not what J.S. or some other man tells you. You see, and have addmitted to see, contradictions in the bible...we don't see them. You are only seeing part of the picture if you are throwing out the parts that don't fit with your doctrin...we are trying to show you how all the pieces fit together. There is a way to see the true Creator through the word.

Jodrey said: calgal, the same could be said for any Christian denomination. All these churches interpret the Bible; it is never taken pure. If you can find me a church that follows the Bible in every way then... I'll eat my toes.

I've already directed you to Calvary Chapel! Have you checked it out yet? You do not seem to understand the personal relationship that can be had with GOD. Not all pastors are as you describe them. Their job is to lead the congregation in the way God wants them to go. I'm not saying that all pastors do this...they are human too. But I have met many who don't make a move until they are sure it is right with God. And God does show us what He wants us to do or not to do. He has different ways of showing us...but they don't involve seeing stones!

straightforward · Apr 5, 2003

Jodrey, I'm sorry to go back a couple of pages but I still would like to know what you do with the parable in Matt. 20:1-16? Would you say this has to do with both work and reward? Wouldn't you say this also has to do with the same payment for all who accept the 'job' (salvation) and 'do the work' (will of God)?

Wrigley · Apr 5, 2003

5th April 2003 at 11:08 AM straightforward said this in Post #450

I think you're twisting what Wrigley said to look the same as your view when it is not:

Actually, Wrigley said:

It's NOT that as if we were looking at a flower and each describing it differently. Mormons are looking at a god who is different than the Christian God and using the same terminology to describe him but the terminology that we share has two different meanings. What you need to see is what the bible really means...not what J.S. or some other man tells you. You see, and have addmitted to see, contradictions in the bible...we don't see them. You are only seeing part of the picture if you are throwing out the parts that don't fit with your doctrin...we are trying to show you how all the pieces fit together. There is a way to see the true Creator through the word.

You nailed it straightforward. (You have a tough name to come up with a short nickname for, any suggestions?)

You said it well.

I've already directed you to Calvary Chapel! Have you checked it out yet? You do not seem to understand the personal relationship that can be had with GOD. Not all pastors are as you describe them. Their job is to lead the congregation in the way God wants them to go. I'm not saying that all pastors do this...they are human too. But I have met many who don't make a move until they are sure it is right with God. And God does show us what He wants us to do or not to do. He has different ways of showing us...but they don't involve seeing stones!

Click to expand...

I may have missed something, but is jodrey holding a Christian minister to a higher standard than he would a mormon bishop or stake president?

rnmomof7 · Apr 5, 2003

5th April 2003 at 11:08 AM straightforward said this in Post #450

I think you're twisting what Wrigley said to look the same as your view when it is not:

Actually, Wrigley said:

It's NOT that as if we were looking at a flower and each describing it differently. Mormons are looking at a god who is different than the Christian God and using the same terminology to describe him but the terminology that we share has two different meanings. What you need to see is what the bible really means...not what J.S. or some other man tells you. You see, and have addmitted to see, contradictions in the bible...we don't see them. You are only seeing part of the picture if you are throwing out the parts that don't fit with your doctrin...we are trying to show you how all the pieces fit together. There is a way to see the true Creator through the word.

And that is the bottom line

rnmomof7 · Apr 5, 2003

I am hoping you can point me in the right direction.

I just had an LDS friend tell me that it is believed that there are 4 people that remain alive from the founding of the church that are to be final witnesses.

Is there some place I can read about that ?

Also he told me that there is record of some miracles by Joseph Smith..

Is that true? I have never read of that

Thanks
Terry

jodrey · Apr 5, 2003

5th April 2003 at 11:08 AM straightforward said this in Post #450

I think you're twisting what Wrigley said to look the same as your view when it is not:

Actually, Wrigley said:

It's NOT that as if we were looking at a flower and each describing it differently. Mormons are looking at a god who is different than the Christian God and using the same terminology to describe him but the terminology that we share has two different meanings. What you need to see is what the bible really means...not what J.S. or some other man tells you. You see, and have addmitted to see, contradictions in the bible...we don't see them. You are only seeing part of the picture if you are throwing out the parts that don't fit with your doctrin...we are trying to show you how all the pieces fit together. There is a way to see the true Creator through the word.

I've already directed you to Calvary Chapel! Have you checked it out yet? You do not seem to understand the personal relationship that can be had with GOD. Not all pastors are as you describe them. Their job is to lead the congregation in the way God wants them to go. I'm not saying that all pastors do this...they are human too. But I have met many who don't make a move until they are sure it is right with God. And God does show us what He wants us to do or not to do. He has different ways of showing us...but they don't involve seeing stones!

I thought what Wrigley meant is that we've been saying much the same thing except in different words. Was I wrong in that?

How did I describe pastors? I don't remember describing any at all.

You said that we should have a personal relationship with God, but how can we have a personal relationship with a being we can't understand? You do believe that God is incomprehensible, right?

What you need to see is what the bible really means...not what J.S. or some other man tells you.

Well, Paul would disagree with you on this. (See Ephesians 4: 11-16)

You see, and have addmitted to see, contradictions in the bible...we don't see them. You are only seeing part of the picture if you are throwing out the parts that don't fit with your doctrin...we are trying to show you how all the pieces fit together. There is a way to see the true Creator through the word.

I brought up contradictions because I'm surprised that you don't acknowledge any, as it seems obvious that you would, considering certain beliefs I thought you had; these 'contradictions' are not really contradictions to the Latter-day Saints, however. As I expressed before, I love the way the gospel fits together. There is no part of the Bible that we ignore. If anything, I have seen this accept-and-reject process done in other religions, but not in my own. You have not attempted to show me any more than that my church is false. When the missionaries teach, they discuss the plan of salvation, which involves the nature of God, concepts of free will, the laws of justice and mercy, opposition in all things, the fall of man, the atonement, baptism, the priesthood, prophets, scripture, salvation, the spirit world, heaven and hell, etc. None of you have attempted to actually teach anything in this manner. All I see that is focused on is the atonement of Christ, which is spectacular, but certainly not the entire picture. Would you care to touch on some of these points and teach me what you actually believe regarding them? This is one of the primary reasons I came to this site: to learn what other Christian churches believe.

He has different ways of showing us...but they don't involve seeing stones!

Did you know that seeing stones were also used in the Old Testament (also called the Urim and Thummim)? I just discovered this recently. For mentions of these seeing stones, see Exodus 28: 15, 30; Levi 8: 8; Numbers 27: 21; Deuteronomy 33: 8; 1 Samuel 28: 6; and Ezra 2: 63; compare Joseph Smith's mentions of the device(s), Joseph Smith History 1: 35, 42, 52, 59, 62.

I've already directed you to Calvary Chapel! Have you checked it out yet?

Why do you want me to? I believe I have the answers, just as you believe you have them. Would you go to Mormon missionaries because I directed you to?

jodrey · Apr 5, 2003

In order to make this short on my part, here is a talk given by an LDS general authority:

http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway....alvation by grace or by works.htm?f=templates$fn=document-frame.htm$3.0$q=%22$x=Simple$nc=971

Read it and tell me what you disagree with.

jodrey · Apr 5, 2003

5th April 2003 at 01:32 PM rnmomof7 said this in Post #454

I am hoping you can point me in the right direction.

I just had an LDS friend tell me that it is believed that there are 4 people that remain alive from the founding of the church that are to be final witnesses.

Is there some place I can read about that ?

Also he told me that there is record of some miracles by Joseph Smith..

Is that true? I have never read of that

Thanks
Terry

I assume your LDS friend was referring to John the Beloved and the Three Nephites, who, due to their desire to bring souls to Christ, asked to remain in the flesh until the second coming. It's in the Book of Mormon and D&C.

Joseph Smith did lots of things. What was your friend referring to? Keep in mind, the miracles would have only been witnessed by the Saints of that time, so you'd probably find any record fallible.

rnmomof7 · Apr 5, 2003

5th April 2003 at 02:44 PM jodrey said this in Post #457

I assume your LDS friend was referring to John the Beloved and the Three Nephites, who, due to their desire to bring souls to Christ, asked to remain in the flesh until the second coming. It's in the Book of Mormon and D&C.

Joseph Smith did lots of things. What was your friend referring to? Keep in mind, the miracles would have only been witnessed by the Saints of that time, so you'd probably find any record fallible.

That is really interesting. I had never heard that before and did not want to look stupid:>) Is that sorta like the three witiness in Revelation?

Yea well most stuff is contemporary, and only verified by those that were present at the time. Did he do healings and stuff? i had heard of his adventures with the paltes , but I never heard he also had done miracles? Did he do healings and stuff?

jodrey · Apr 5, 2003

5th April 2003 at 02:51 PM rnmomof7 said this in Post #458

That is really interesting. I had never heard that before and did not want to look stupid:&gt Is that sorta like the three witiness in Revelation?

Yea well most stuff is contemporary, and only verified by those that were present at the time. Did he do healings and stuff? i had heard of his adventures with the paltes , but I never heard he also had done miracles? Did he do healings and stuff?

What three witnesses in Revelation?

Yes, healings are mainly what I've heard of, although I can't give you specific references because none seem to exist in the Standard Works. There are probably records written in journals of the Saints from that time, but most likely nothing authoritative. I'll bet he certainly did, but there's no reason for such an account to exist in the D&C unless it was central to something else. I've heard many, many stories of healing through the priesthood within the Church; some are most likely true, some not. In any case, miracles are not a sure thing to base faith on. Remember, an adulterous generation seeketh after signs.

rnmomof7 · Apr 5, 2003

Sorry mis spoke it is two witnesses in the bible

Has anyone been thru a Mormon temple?

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