If we are not under the law we are not sinning

SabbathBlessings

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Galatians 3:10


“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

Only Jesus was able to do it for us.
Hallelujah!

“But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Amen.

The curse is not the law but the condemnation of breaking the law is the curse. The wages of sin is death, but with Jesus we have an Advocate to help us overcome sin through the Holy Spirit. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32 Sin is what separated us from God. God loves us so much He sacrificed His son for our sins, so we can be forgiven and overcome sin, not to continue in perpetual sin. Sin is what hurts Jesus the most and when God writes His law in our hearts it means we obey because of love. When we sin and love God we should be remorseful because it hurts Him and pray to be forgiven and pray to overcome sin and walk in the Spirit of truth, like Jesus who walked this earth as our example.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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What are your plans for today?

Do you plan to go anywhere?

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Where and what did Jesus and the apostles go and do on the Sabbath day? Perhaps some prayerful reading of scripture you wouldn’t have asked such a question.
 
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BABerean2

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Where and what did Jesus and the apostles go and do on the Sabbath day? Perhaps some prayerful reading of scripture you wouldn’t have asked such a question.

They walked less than a Sabbath Day's journey to a local synagogue, and read from the scriptures or listened to a rabbi read from the scriptures.

How about you?

.
 
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Soyeong

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Come let us reason together. In Galatians in relation to the Law. The Immediate context is circumcision. However Paul is not finished and collates that with bringing into bondage. He says that Titus was not compelled to be circumcised which according to the Law he should have. Paul continues in respect to the Law and says that the works of the law justifies no one and it is by believing into Jesus and us living through His spirit, faith. For by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified. This broadens the spectrum to be speaking of much more than just circumcision. This fact is elaborated on throughout the rest of the letter.

Either there are correct and incorrect reasons for someone to become circumcised and Paul only spoke against the incorrect reasons, or according to Galatian 5:2, Paul caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he had him circumcised (Acts 16:3), and Christ is of no value to roughly 80% of the men in the US. In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld God's law by correctly ruling against an incorrect reason for circumcision and a ruling against requiring something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded, as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:17-23). Furthermore, Christ also set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so it would be absurd to interpret Galatian 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so that is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from it. Likewise, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by making known to him His ways and there are many verses that describe God's law as being His instructions for how to walk in His ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so again God teaching us to obey His law is what it means to be under grace, and it would be absurd to interpret these verses as David wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace, or that we have received grace in order to bring about our fall from grace, or that our salvation involves being trained by grace to fall from grace. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow the Law of God that Christ spent his ministry teaching by word and by example, but with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

So in chapter three Paul continues in respect to ministering through the spirit through the hearing of faith, through Christ living in us and asks if the receiving of the spirit was through the works of the Law, because of circumcision or anything else that we might do contained there in or by the hearing of faith. Then in verse 6 in regards to this hearing of faith Paul in direct comparison speaks of Abraham. Abraham who had a hearing faith. He heard God and acted in and upon it. As a side note Many translation say Abraham believed God. But it would be closer to the Greek if it were translated Abraham believed TO THE God. In other words We can believe as the devils do and tremble or we can believe and put our selves before Him, to Him in loving service. In so much that we are the Body of Christ, the Temple of God and it is He that works in us both to Will and do His good pleasure. To drive this home Paul continues in respect to the law and calls it our school master that it brought us to Christ. He states now that faith through His indwelling spirit has come we have no need for the school master the book of the law vs 10 which justifies no one and has a curse if we do not continue to do all that is mentioned in it, the Book of the Law. Because it’s mission has been fulfilled. In that it brought us to Christ. In So much he states that we have put on Christ. Which brings us back to what he shared in 2:20. We are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ lives in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith OF the son of God who gave himself for us.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God, so obedience to God's law is a necessary condition to receive the Spirit, but not obedience to works of the law. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept God's commandments are the same as those who kept faith in Jesus. In Matthew 23:23, our faith upholds God's law. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying him. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. So obedience to God's law is the way to walk in the Spirit through faith.

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was justified, it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so the same faith by which he was justified was also expressed as obedience to God, but he did not earn his justification by his obedience as a wage (Romans 4:4-5). In James 2:21-23, Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac, his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was justified by his works insofar as they were an expression of his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments, so that is the way to put ourselves in loving service to Him. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law brings us to Christ because it teach us how to know him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can reject what he taught and go back to living in sin. Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster, so having no more need for a schoolmaster is not at all the same as having no more need to live by what they taught you. Now that faith has come, we are under a superior teacher, but the subject matter is still how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His law in accordance with what Christ taught by word and by example. Someone living in complete disobedience to God's law does not cause them to avoid coming under its curse, but rather the only way to do that is through obedience to it. Christ lived in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when he is living in us.

The Bible often describes the Mosaic Covenant as being a marriage between God and Israel, such as God describing Himself as her husband (Jeremiah 31:31) so the goal of the law is again to lead us to Jesus by teach us how to grow in a relationship with him. When a husband is fulfilling his marital vows, he is growing in a relationship with his wife through correctly acting in accordance with what he has vowed to do.

Moving forward we come to chapter four. Paul in verse 3 speaks of himself and those to whom he is speaking to be in bondage. This bondage to the elements, first principles of this world is being said in respect to the law, the book of the law being our school master. He goes on to say in relation to this bondage that we have been redeemed from under this law, this school master that we may become sons through His Son in our hearts in verses 4:4-6.

He continues in distress for those whom have returned back to the weak and beggary, the first principles of this world, the book if the law to which he himself states to being in bondage too in 4:3. He cries out I travail again as in birth until Christ be formed in you. Until you have this living faith that He offers through His spirit.
Then he broadens the spectrum in respect to us understanding being under the law, the school master, the book of the law by mentioning something contained in it, the Pentateuch the first five books of the Bible by mentioning the story of Hagar in verses 21 on through. Then in chapter five he again goes into the mindset of being in bondage, being justified by the school master, the book of the law and states the we that are led by the spirit are not under the law, the school master, the book of the law.
We are now of the Faith through Christ. Do we then make Void the law through faith? God forbid we establish the law. For We are a new creation in Christ Jesus. Behold all things are New and of God. As He is so are we in this world.

The reason why God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt was not in order to put them under bondage to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1), and His law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45), so Galatians 4 should not be interpreted as speaking about God putting His children into bondage, which would be expressing an extremely poor view of God. However, God's law can be perverted into bondage by teachings of men, so we should be careful not to mistake what was only said against the teachings of men as being against obeying the commands of God as if Paul had the authority to countermand God. God's law is holy righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) and was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so we have never needed to be redeemed from under the law, but rather those under the law had the need to be redeemed from our lawlessness. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us form God's law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness.

The view that we have of God's law matches the view that we have of God, so for example, God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), and a law that is holy, righteous, and good can only come from a God who is holy, righteous, and good. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of God's law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture, then we should therefore share that view, as Paul did (Romans 7:22). For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of God's law, which is incompatible with the view that it is bondage. Furthermore, Paul saying that he delighted in obeying God's law means verses that you interpret to be speaking about God's law should make sense for it to also be a law that he delighted in obeying. So having such a poor view of God's law that you consider it to be bondage is expressing an equally poor view of God and is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture. In addition, we should not impose a negative view of God's law onto the NT authors when they considered the Psalms to be Scripture.

Perception of the Law.jpg
 
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SabbathBlessings

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They walked less than a Sabbath Day's journey to a local synagogue, and read from the scriptures or listened to a rabbi read from the scriptures.

How about you?

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Jesus was in the Temple on the Sabbath day as His custom and example for us reading the scriptures and Word of God.

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” 22 So all bore witness to Him, and marveled at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth.
 
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BABerean2

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Jesus was in the Temple on the Sabbath day as His custom and example for us reading the scriptures and Word of God.

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.”

20 Then He closed the book, and gave it back to the attendant and sat down. And the eyes of all who were in the synagogue were fixed on Him. 21 And He began to say to them, “Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” 22 So all bore witness to Him, and marveled at the gracious words which proceeded out of His mouth.

Is it your belief the scripture above was not spoken from the mouth of God?


"The only scripture spoken and personally written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart in the New Covenant."


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SabbathBlessings

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Is it your belief the scripture above was not spoken from the mouth of God?


"The only scripture spoken and personally written by the hand of God in the entire Bible is The Ten commandments, now written in our heart in the New Covenant."


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Maybe you can quote other scripture in the Bible that was both personally written and audibly spoken by God.
 
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BABerean2

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Maybe you can quote other scripture in the Bible that was both personally written and audibly spoken by God.

Every word spoken by Jesus Christ, and recorded through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.


Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


The higher standard of the New Covenant is found above.

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SabbathBlessings

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Every word spoken by Jesus Christ, and recorded through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.


Mat 5:27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.'
Mat 5:28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


The higher standard of the New Covenant is found above.

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You seem to have missed the point. The criteria is personally spoken and written by God.

Jesus repeated the commandments and magnified God’s laws as predicted in Isaiah which doesn’t line up with your teachings from the majority of your posts that we don’t need to keep the commandments.

Take care
 
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BABerean2

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You seem to have missed the point. The criteria is personally spoken and written by God.

Jesus repeated the commandments and magnified God’s laws as predicted in Isaiah which doesn’t line up with your teachings from the majority of your posts that we don’t need to keep the commandments.

Are you saying Jesus is not God?

Are you saying the Holy Spirit is not God?

I have never said we do not need to keep the commandments.
The Bible says in Hebrews 8:13 that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".
I still have an axe and use it on occasion, but my chainsaw has made the axe "obsolete" and it is used more often.

Idolotry, murder, stealing, adultery, lying, will always be sin.

Unfortunately, some of us do not understand the difference between a day and Christ when it comes to the Sabbath. He is my Sabbath rest every day of the week.
I can honestly tell you that 100% of my salvation comes from what Jesus did at Calvary, because I will never be able to keep the Old Covenant perfectly. This is the true Gospel.

==========================================



Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)


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SabbathBlessings

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Are you saying Jesus is not God?

Are you saying the Holy Spirit is not God?

I have never said we do not need to keep the commandments.
The Bible says in Hebrews 8:13 that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".
I still have an axe and use it on occasion, but my chainsaw has made the axe "obsolete" and it is used more often.

Idolotry, murder, stealing, adultery, lying, will always be sin.

Unfortunately, some of us do not understand the difference between a day and Christ when it comes to the Sabbath. He is my Sabbath rest every day of the week.
I can honestly tell you that 100% of my salvation comes from what Jesus did at Calvary, because I will never be able to keep the Old Covenant perfectly. This is the true Gospel.

==========================================



Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)


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No that is not what I said. I asked you to point out scripture that shows God or Jesus personally writing scripture (His own hand) and speaking the scripture (His own voice). You never seem to actually address any of my posts for some reason.
 
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HIM

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Either there are correct and incorrect reasons for someone to become circumcised and Paul only spoke against the incorrect reasons, or according to Galatian 5:2, Paul caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he had him circumcised (Acts 16:3), and Christ is of no value to roughly 80% of the men in the US. In Acts 15:1, they were wanting to require all Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, however, that was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so the problem was that circumcision was being used for a man-made purpose that went above and beyond the purpose for which God commanded it. So the Jerusalem Council upheld God's law by correctly ruling against an incorrect reason for circumcision and a ruling against requiring something that God never commanded should not be mistaken as being a ruling against obeying what God has commanded, as if the Jerusalem Council had the authority to countermand God.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:17-23). Furthermore, Christ also set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22), and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), so it would be absurd to interpret Galatian 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so that is what it means to be under grace, not the way to fall from it. Likewise, in Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by making known to him His ways and there are many verses that describe God's law as being His instructions for how to walk in His ways, such as Deuteronomy 10:12-13, Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Psalms 103:7, and many others. In Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience of faith. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so again God teaching us to obey His law is what it means to be under grace, and it would be absurd to interpret these verses as David wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace, or that we have received grace in order to bring about our fall from grace, or that our salvation involves being trained by grace to fall from grace. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow the Law of God that Christ spent his ministry teaching by word and by example, but with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.



In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God, so obedience to God's law is a necessary condition to receive the Spirit, but not obedience to works of the law. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh, who are enemies of God, who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-22, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept God's commandments are the same as those who kept faith in Jesus. In Matthew 23:23, our faith upholds God's law. In John 3:36, believing in Jesus is equated with obeying him. In Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law. So obedience to God's law is the way to walk in the Spirit through faith.

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was justified, it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's command to offer Isaac, so the same faith by which he was justified was also expressed as obedience to God, but he did not earn his justification by his obedience as a wage (Romans 4:4-5). In James 2:21-23, Abraham was justified by his works when he offered Isaac, his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was justified by his works insofar as they were an expression of his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

In Exodus 20:6, God wanted His people to love Him and obey His commandments, so that is the way to put ourselves in loving service to Him. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so God's law brings us to Christ because it teach us how to know him, but does not lead us to Christ so that we can reject what he taught and go back to living in sin. Someone who disregarded everything that their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the whole point of a schoolmaster, so having no more need for a schoolmaster is not at all the same as having no more need to live by what they taught you. Now that faith has come, we are under a superior teacher, but the subject matter is still how to walk in God's ways in obedience to His law in accordance with what Christ taught by word and by example. Someone living in complete disobedience to God's law does not cause them to avoid coming under its curse, but rather the only way to do that is through obedience to it. Christ lived in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when he is living in us.

The Bible often describes the Mosaic Covenant as being a marriage between God and Israel, such as God describing Himself as her husband (Jeremiah 31:31) so the goal of the law is again to lead us to Jesus by teach us how to grow in a relationship with him. When a husband is fulfilling his marital vows, he is growing in a relationship with his wife through correctly acting in accordance with what he has vowed to do.



The reason why God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt was not in order to put them under bondage to His law, but rather it is for freedom that God sets us free (Galatians 5:1), and His law is a law of freedom (Psalms 119:45), so Galatians 4 should not be interpreted as speaking about God putting His children into bondage, which would be expressing an extremely poor view of God. However, God's law can be perverted into bondage by teachings of men, so we should be careful not to mistake what was only said against the teachings of men as being against obeying the commands of God as if Paul had the authority to countermand God. God's law is holy righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) and was given for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13), so we have never needed to be redeemed from under the law, but rather those under the law had the need to be redeemed from our lawlessness. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us form God's law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness.

The view that we have of God's law matches the view that we have of God, so for example, God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), and a law that is holy, righteous, and good can only come from a God who is holy, righteous, and good. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of God's law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture, then we should therefore share that view, as Paul did (Romans 7:22). For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the law of the Lord and who meditate on it day and night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of God's law, which is incompatible with the view that it is bondage. Furthermore, Paul saying that he delighted in obeying God's law means verses that you interpret to be speaking about God's law should make sense for it to also be a law that he delighted in obeying. So having such a poor view of God's law that you consider it to be bondage is expressing an equally poor view of God and is incompatible with the view that the Psalms are Scripture. In addition, we should not impose a negative view of God's law onto the NT authors when they considered the Psalms to be Scripture.

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I don’t think you are actually looking at what was posted. If you were you would not have posted all that you have. Take care.
 
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HIM

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Also, ”love covers multitude of sins” It means we operate through God’s love, not written law because we are not under the law but under grace. It is impossible be under grace and under law at the same time. You are either under curse or under blessing.
Jesus died on the cross so His blood is continually cleansing us from sin. We have His righteousness, not our own righteousness. It is a gift from God.
I still confess my sins to God, even im not sure do we need to do that because it was finished on the cross. But I do it because I just feel I have to.
Jesus is and was only person who never sinned.
It is written love God with all your heart Mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself. On these two hang, depend all the law and prophets. In Other words The law needs love in order be established to happen.

It is written the just shall live by faith. Faith that cometh by love. Do we then make void the law through faith that cometh through love? God forbid! We establish the law.
 
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HIM

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Are you saying Jesus is not God?

Are you saying the Holy Spirit is not God?

I have never said we do not need to keep the commandments.
The Bible says in Hebrews 8:13 that the New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete".
I still have an axe and use it on occasion, but my chainsaw has made the axe "obsolete" and it is used more often.

Idolotry, murder, stealing, adultery, lying, will always be sin.

Unfortunately, some of us do not understand the difference between a day and Christ when it comes to the Sabbath. He is my Sabbath rest every day of the week.
I can honestly tell you that 100% of my salvation comes from what Jesus did at Calvary, because I will never be able to keep the Old Covenant perfectly. This is the true Gospel.

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Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.)


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So you are Catholic. Those are nothing other than Catholic preserve documents that met their agenda, agreed with their “doctrine”. I would love to see all that they destroyed.
 
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BABerean2

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So you are Catholic. Those are nothing other than Catholic preserve documents that met their agenda, agreed with their “doctrine”. I would love to see all that they destroyed.

I am not Roman Catholic.
Jesus Christ is the rock the Church is built upon. (See 1 Peter 2:4-10)

I am a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ, which started with about 3,000 from "all the house of Israel" (Acts 2:36), on the Day of Pentecost. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.


.
 
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HIM

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I am not Roman Catholic.
Jesus Christ is the rock the Church is built upon. (See 1 Peter 2:4-10)

I am a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ, which started with about 3,000 from "all the house of Israel" (Acts 2:36), on the Day of Pentecost. The Gentiles were grafted in several years later
.
So you continue in the apostles doctrine and the fear of the Lord. Amen
 
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Bruce Leiter

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If we are walking, being led by the spirit and are of Christ we have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.


Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Do you think that Paul is saying that true Christians who are walking in the Spirit are perfect, completely without any sin? Not true. Look at Philippians 3, where Paul says that he was not perfect.

Either we are controlled by Satan and sin or by the Spirit. The point is that control by either one does not mean that we have become completely perfect. Go to the last verses of Romans 7 to discover Paul's struggles against sin. We still have a sinful nature ("flesh") that produces sin when we give in to temptation.

However, God the Father, our just Judge, declares us not-guilty and right with him as our verdict because of Jesus' death, which took our guilty verdict on himself. But we still need daily cleansing from the remaining sin in our sinful lives. That's why Jesus taught us to pray for God's forgiveness in the Lord's Prayer.
 
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