Why did God slay so many in the old testament?

The answer i have come to.

God repayed what was done to them, God was brutal, but the people back then were brutal also.

A good example of this is the book of esther. Where the general tried to wipe out all the jews, and what the general planned to do to them, was done to him instead. I suggest reading it.

Other then that....
8Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

An example of what was done to Israel and an example of repayment. What was do to us.

Then said Samuel, “Bring ye hither to me Agag, the king of the Amalekites.” And Agag came unto him charily; and Agag said, “Surely the bitterness of death is past.”

33 And Samuel said, “As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women.” And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.


Another example
This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

I cant find any verses relating to what exactly happened in the wilderness, but again related to repayment.


My guess is, in order to have a fuller understanding of what happened to Israel in those times, you would have to find and go through the book thats mentioned. Which seems to be a book outside the bible, where everything each king did, is written, during the history of Israel.

Now the rest of the acts of Ahaziah which he did, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Israel?

Gary O' said:

I've been approached with this question many times.
'Why did your god of love kill so many people in the old testament?'

I've never been able to come up with a satisfactory reply.
The only thing I could cough up is 'to get their attention'.

Need a little help here....

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two classic examples of God doing it outright are -

1. The flood.
2. Sodom and Gomorrah

Other examples are of God removing his hand of protection from a nation that is running away from Him into rebellion - hijacking his name and his temple as if God is represented by them "still". In that case He has to distance Himself from them for the sake of the Gospel.

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As for the flood -

Mankind was living past 900 years of age and fully corrupting itself. Finally melting down to total corruption - mankind would never have made it to today - at that rate. He would need to "push reset" - giving them lower life spans and remove a lot of the damage they had done, as well as a lot of the advantages they had - so they could not ramp up to such massive wickedness and self-destruction so fast.

Even so - He gave them a 120 year message for repentance and if they had accepted it - then no flood.

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As for Sodom and Gomorrah

Notice in Jude 7 that it is a signal to all mankind not to follow that path where as we see in Genesis the entire city except for Lot - was corrupt. Having a couple of cities (relatively small by comparison to today's mega cities) serve as a warning/example for generations to come was a price that was paid.

Still if they had listened to Lot's teaching about his God - they could have been spared. In fact Abraham bargained with God so that if only ten people were not corrupt out of the entire city it would be spared as Nineveh was spared in Jonah's day.

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Gary O' said:

He has the typical atheist slants

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God's plan was to allow himself to die for all the sins of all mankind in all of time - but to do that He could not allow Satan to turn the entire world to evil and self-destruct before there even would be the Messiah - nor could He just yank everybody's free will away and turn them into compliant robots.

So that means the "choices have consequences" system where bad choices result in a corrupt and self-destructive society - would be allowed "to a point".

Chris35 said:

The answer i have come to.

God repayed what was done to them, God was brutal, but the people back then were brutal also.

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Well I think you would agree that it was not the case that every time someone stepped out of line - God zapped them with a lighting bolt.

Chris35 said:

The answer i have come to.

God repayed what was done to them, God was brutal, but the people back then were brutal also.

A good example of this is the book of esther. Where the general tried to wipe out all the jews, and what the general planned to do to them, was done to him instead. I suggest reading it.

Other then that....
8Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.

An example of what was done to Israel and an example of repayment. What was do to us.

Then said Samuel, “Bring ye hither to me Agag, the king of the Amalekites.” And Agag came unto him charily; and Agag said, “Surely the bitterness of death is past.”

33 And Samuel said, “As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women.” And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the Lord in Gilgal.


Another example
This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

I cant find any verses relating to what exactly happened in the wilderness, but again related to repayment.


My guess is, in order to have a fuller understanding of what happened to Israel in those times, you would have to find and go through the book thats mentioned. Which seems to be a book outside the bible, where everything each king did, is written, during the history of Israel.

Now the rest of the acts of Ahaziah which he did, are they not written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Israel?

Click to expand...

What you're looking for is in Exodus 17. But Amalek was a descendant of Esau (Genesis 36:10-15) so the Amalekites were relatives of the Hebrews and should not have gone to war against the Isrealites when they were bound for the promised land.

Deuteronomy 25:15 But thou shalt have a perfect and just weight, a perfect and just measure shalt thou have: that thy days may be lengthened in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
16 For all that do such things, and all that do unrighteously, are an abomination unto the Lord thy God.
17 ¶Remember what Amalek did unto thee by the way, when ye were come forth out of Egypt;
18 How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, even all that were feeble behind thee, when thou wast faint and weary; and he feared not God.
19 Therefore it shall be, when the Lord thy God hath given thee rest from all thine enemies round about, in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance to possess it, that thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it.

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Gary O' said:

Yeah, the flood is an obvious one.
Guess I'm talking more about all the wars, and the Israelites slaying everyone.
David was pretty big on it.

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Indeed so, and so, if you read Deuteronomy, you should notice for precisely the question of the erasure of the culture (removal of not only the people, but often even destruction of the goods including all gold and silver....)of the Canaanite cities (what you are pointing out) the reason in Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 12:29-31 - New International Version, especially verse 31.
It's not a small thing that those cities burned children in fires for generation after generation. It was the worst of their many sins -- they "even" burned their sons and daughters in fire as sacrifices to their idols.

But, the main thing atheists get wrong is their assumption, so central in their basic view they hardly notice the assumption, that death is actually death.

Atheist think that when people die they are dead.

They assume when people die, it's over for them.

So, when innocent children die, atheists think that's akin to genocide, but in reality, all such innocents will gain eternal life. (i.e. Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them! For the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.")

See the key, central crucial mistake atheists make --> happens before they even think on these questions.

They just assume that God doesn't exist and so death is final.

With the assumption all death is final, then all death would be 'genocide'.... Even just dying of cancer, etc.
So, they end up doing circular reasoning: assuming death is final, they use that to suggest God does evil in order to suggest God doesn't exist.

But of course assuming death is final is assuming God doesn't exist.

But it's not best to say to them they are only doing circular reasoning I think (because they could get offended and then miss the bigger message), but instead I think it's best to just point out that God reverses all death.

And...for all of those people that died without hearing the gospel, we also read in scripture, in 1rst Peter:

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. 19 After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— 20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.
... 4:6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to human standards in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit."

And we see that all of those that died will get a chance to hear the gospel, and the ones that chose to turn to Christ in faith can "live according to God in the spirit" -- gain eternal life.

All of this is precisely the exact opposite of what atheists presume and think, see. And it's simply what the scripture says.

But also, it's useful to realize, that in order to be able to explain all of that well and be ready for questions that might arise, it helps very very much to have read carefully and fully through the books being referenced. In other words, the first step for you would be to carefully read through the first 6 books of the OT, just as a basic starting prep.

Gary O' said:

I've been approached with this question many times.
'Why did your god of love kill so many people in the old testament?'

I've never been able to come up with a satisfactory reply.
The only thing I could cough up is 'to get their attention'.

Need a little help here....

Click to expand...

A bit of useful philosophy: He slays pretty much all of us in the end, by old age, disease, the sword... What is really the big difference?

He owns us all, and does what he will to accomplish his own purposes. Life is not about us, but about him.

Gary O' said:

I've been approached with this question many times.
'Why did your god of love kill so many people in the old testament?'

I've never been able to come up with a satisfactory reply.
The only thing I could cough up is 'to get their attention'.

Need a little help here....

Click to expand...

For years Noah warned everyone of the flood. No one listened. They chose to die. Next......
Blessings.

I think God is prepared to die (the way Jesus, was) and He weighs the hearts of men and in their pride He sees them contend, that they will both be in sin and not die (as if they are God).

Faced with this, God has no choice but to give them as they desire: sin that leads to death.

It's when He is faced with the Devil encouraging this, that He must act (and kill) to ensure that the seed of evil, not take further root (and leave dead, according to their faith, after the fact).

It's rare that people think this much through it though, if I had to summarise it, I would say "They see death in God, as if He is at fault - how can He not kill?"

Gary O' said:

Thank you @Hark
If you wish to close this unraveled thread, be my guest

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Thank you for the invite;

God promised Israel that He will take care of them as in those who bless Israel shall be blessed and those who cursed Israel shall be cursed. There were times that the enemies in the promised land sought to wipe out the Israelites for why God had them wiped out.

There was a people in that land that did not have iniquities high enough for God to wipe them out, but eventually He had to, but I forgot where I had read that.

Anyway, when God told Israel to wipe out the Philistines and they did not, look what had happened. They picked up their sinful ways and God punished Israel for it time & time again.

God is judge. All sinners answer to God whether they believe in Him or not.

Yet God is also the Saviour because all those who believe in Jesus Christ are saved.

Although that foundation laid by Jesus Christ can never be removed, what we build on that foundation will be judged for why some believers will be left behind for defiling the temple of God with works of the flesh to die but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelation 2:18-25.

So Jesus will judge the House of God first at the pre great tribulation rapture event per 1 Peter 4:17-19 as He is faithful in doing a good job in keeping the souls of His saints left behind.

2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

So believers are to run that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us discern the weights & sins to lay the weights & sins down daily per Hebrews 12:1-2 and to have confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us to His glory ( Philippians 1:6-11 ) for He is able to deliver us from every evil work per 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25 That is why we can rest in Jesus Christ for all things that we are saved and we can rely on Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him. Hebrews 4:1-16

So look to Jesus to help you prove everything in your church by the scripture. Trust Him to do this.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Hark said:

Thank you for the invite;

God promised Israel that He will take care of them as in those who bless Israel shall be blessed and those who cursed Israel shall be cursed. There were times that the enemies in the promised land sought to wipe out the Israelites for why God had them wiped out.

There was a people in that land that did not have iniquities high enough for God to wipe them out, but eventually He had to, but I forgot where I had read that.

Anyway, when God told Israel to wipe out the Philistines and they did not, look what had happened. They picked up their sinful ways and God punished Israel for it time & time again.

God is judge. All sinners answer to God whether they believe in Him or not.

Yet God is also the Saviour because all those who believe in Jesus Christ are saved.

Although that foundation laid by Jesus Christ can never be removed, what we build on that foundation will be judged for why some believers will be left behind for defiling the temple of God with works of the flesh to die but their spirits will be with the Lord in Heaven awaiting their resurrection after the great tribulation per 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelation 2:18-25.

So Jesus will judge the House of God first at the pre great tribulation rapture event per 1 Peter 4:17-19 as He is faithful in doing a good job in keeping the souls of His saints left behind.

2 Corinthians 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

So believers are to run that race by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help us discern the weights & sins to lay the weights & sins down daily per Hebrews 12:1-2 and to have confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us to His glory ( Philippians 1:6-11 ) for He is able to deliver us from every evil work per 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-25 That is why we can rest in Jesus Christ for all things that we are saved and we can rely on Him as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him. Hebrews 4:1-16

So look to Jesus to help you prove everything in your church by the scripture. Trust Him to do this.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

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The people you couldn't remember were the Amorites.

Genesis 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.
15 And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.
16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.

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Gary K said:

The people you couldn't remember were the Amorites.

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Thank you, brother.

We have to realize the multi-dimensions of Yah. Many times Yah could have meant he killed them physically, while other times he could have meant he cut them off(they shall not enter into the kingdom/removed their candlestick) but they were actually still alive physically but dead spiritually.

Hark said:

Thank you, brother.

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You're welcome.

The implications of God's responses about the Amalekites and the Amorites is very interesting. It implies that both nations went beyond the point where God could reach them and as such they had passed the bounds of probation so to preserve His people He told the Israelites to completely destroy them.

Gary O' said:

Oh please reply.
My next question;
Is there any intelligent life in this forum?

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Woof!

Gary K said:

You're welcome.

The implications of God's responses about the Amalekites and the Amorites is very interesting. It implies that both nations went beyond the point where God could reach them and as such they had passed the bounds of probation so to preserve His people He told the Israelites to completely destroy them.

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Indeed their probation was up - but also Israel would be "moving in" so either those two nations were going to convert to worship the one true God - or they were going to corrupt Israel and they themselves would not turn back from rebellion.... or they would be wiped out having already passed the time allotted for their probation (Like Sodom and Gomorrah )