Pfizer doc released due to court order. 1223 deaths, 23 spontaineous abortions, 42k+ AEs

Subduction Zone · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
And have them restructure Purdue into a "public benefit corporation"...which is for-profit...which means they keep making money.

A company is not a person. The old Purdue is gone, but it did provide a valid service and employed quite a few people. What would you have done?

Estrid · Dec 2, 2021

cow451 said:
Any death or serious side effect is sad but we are talking about living in a fallen world where nothing done by mortals will be perfect. Do the math and it clearly shows the risk of serious side effect or death is extraordinarily low.

There is little mention of serious side effects from the plain old flu shot.

I was not aware of any till my Dad died from a flu shot.

There is no vast world wide conspiracy of " not supposed to talk about it".

cow451 · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
See Purdue and Oxycontin in the 1990s. They most certainly hide the truth and push lies to doctors, who then pushed the drug onto patients; believing them to be much safer than they really were.

Vaccines are different than meds taken daily. There is nothing but hyperbole and "I don't want to" saying the vaccines are not safe effective.

cow451 · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
Certainly there was. They lied to doctors about how addictive that it was, praised the security around the timed release coating, which was found to be easy to remove, and then pushed the lie of "breakthrough pain" to sell more drugs at higher doses to continue providing those they had gotten addicted. They had the FDA fooled, and then when the truth started coming out, hired the very same FDA agent that approved their fraudulent label in the first place.

‘A toothless paper tiger’: 25 years after release, FDA regulation of Purdue Pharma’s OxyContin has many critics

Now, looking at Pfizer, who had to be forced by a court to release these docs. Why not be transparent? If a court has to force you to be transparent, then IMO you've got something you're really trying to hide.

Give some actual evidence that the drug companies are lying about the vaccines.

98cwitr · Dec 2, 2021

cow451 said:
Give some actual evidence that the drug companies are lying about the vaccines.

Pfizer and the FDA claims 91% effectiveness (at prevention is the claim, not reducing symptoms or severity): Q&A for Comirnaty (COVID-19 Vaccine mRNA)

Breakthrough rates are up to 30%: Dare reports fewest COVID cases since July

Supporting evidence: Hundreds of vaccinated students test positive for COVID-19 at Duke University

Subduction Zone · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
Pfizer and the FDA claims 91% effectiveness (at prevention is the claim, not reducing symptoms or severity): Q&A for Comirnaty (COVID-19 Vaccine mRNA)

Breakthrough rates are up to 30%: Dare reports fewest COVID cases since July

Supporting evidence: Hundreds of vaccinated students test positive for COVID-19 at Duke University

You are improperly mixing and matching statistics. It lowers your post to one that only merits a "So what?"

98cwitr · Dec 2, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
You are improperly mixing and matching statistics. It lowers your post to one that only merits a "So what?"

Well, one would imagine and expect that if something was 91% effective, then we'd see a 9% breakthrough rate and not 30%. Right?

Aldebaran · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
Well, one would imagine and expect that if something was 91% effective, then we'd see a 9% breakthrough rate and not 30%. Right?

Another problem is that if those who are vaccinated are only experiencing mild symptoms, they are more likely to continue being out in public spreading it around.

98cwitr · Dec 2, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Another problem is that if those who are vaccinated are only experiencing mild symptoms, they are more likely to continue being out in public spreading it around.

Silver lining is that we might actually achieve herd immunity as a result.

durangodawood · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
Well, one would imagine and expect that if something was 91% effective, then we'd see a 9% breakthrough rate and not 30%. Right?

That was one county, right?

And figures for one vax. Who know, maybe no one in that county got that vax. "Comernity" (I feel gross just typing that) wasnt an option where I am recently.

That said.... I am skeptical of any "91%" breakthrough protection just based on what Ive been hearing here and there.

Aldebaran · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
Silver lining is that we might actually achieve herd immunity as a result.

I'm actually hoping omicron will achieve this by spreading more easily, resulting in only mild symptoms, and getting around the vaccines so that it can provide natural herd immunity. So far, it appears to be moving along quite well.
Meanwhile, Fauci and his followers are continuing to double down on "Get the shots! Get the boosters! Wear a mask!" All of which ignores the fact that the shots were made for Alpha, and not Delta, and certainly not omicron, and masks have proven useless. People don't use them correctly anyway.

98cwitr · Dec 2, 2021

durangodawood said:
That was one county, right?

And figures for one vax. Who know, maybe no one in that county got that vax. "Comernity" (I feel gross just typing that) wasnt an option where I am recently.

That said.... I am skeptical of any "91%" breakthrough protection just based on what Ive been hearing here and there.

Whether it's one county or not seems irrelevant. They're still people. What would make one person who is vaccinated any more or less likely to get covid than another in a county-wide population?

Sure, but our state is not publishing breakthrough statistics, so it's really hard to gauge efficacy for one's self when the government hides the information from you.

Subduction Zone · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
Well, one would imagine and expect that if something was 91% effective, then we'd see a 9% breakthrough rate and not 30%. Right?

Nope. Not even close. First off that data is from one county only. You would need to know the percentages of vaccinated to unvaccinated in that county first.

keith99 · Dec 2, 2021

Aldebaran said:
Another problem is that if those who are vaccinated are only experiencing mild symptoms, they are more likely to continue being out in public spreading it around.

Actually not. Those who are unvaccinated almost always start out with mild symptoms and very likely have just as long in that state where they innocently interact with others. When one adds in the inevetable interactions with family members the unvaccinated do a much better job of spreading the disease.

Aldebaran · Dec 2, 2021

keith99 said:
Actually not. Those who are unvaccinated almost always start out with mild symptoms and very likely have just as long in that state where they innocently interact with others. When one adds in the inevetable interactions with family members the unvaccinated do a much better job of spreading the disease.

Then what kinds of symptoms do vaccinated people generally have?

98cwitr · Dec 2, 2021

Subduction Zone said:
Nope. Not even close. First off that data is from one county only. You would need to know the percentages of vaccinated to unvaccinated in that county first.

Okay, I'll say fair to that and do the entire state of Minnesota (who, thankfully, is publishing breakthroughs):

So between May and October, they've had 196092 cases, with 66007 being breakthroughs...that's a rate of 33.6%!

Source data is here: https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vbtcounts.xlsx

Tanj · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
This was between Jan 1 and Feb 28, so according to the math, this is out of a total of 2.1M doses.

No, it isn't. This is a global registry, and represents 405 million doses, as I pointed out in the same post I pointed out you got the spontaneous abortion thing wrong. I mean, you cannot even get the reporting period correct

"01 December 2020 through 28 February 2021"

durangodawood · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
Whether it's one county or not seems irrelevant. They're still people. What would make one person who is vaccinated any more or less likely to get covid than another in a county-wide population?....

A sample from one locale can be skewed by one oddball event or circumstance particular to the place.

Tanj · Dec 2, 2021

98cwitr said:
Okay, I'll say fair to that and do the entire state of Minnesota (who, thankfully, is publishing breakthroughs):

So between May and October, they've had 196092 cases, with 66007 being breakthroughs...that's a rate of 33.6%!

Source data is here: https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases/coronavirus/stats/vbtcounts.xlsx

And Minnesota has 66% of its people vaccinated. Which means the vaccinated (66%) make up 33.6% of the cases, while the unvaxxed (34%) make up 64% of the cases.

Clearly, from your own data, the vaccines work.

98cwitr · Dec 2, 2021

Tanj said:
And Minnesota has 66% of its people vaccinated. Which means the vaccinated (66%) make up 33.6% of the cases, while the unvaxxed (34%) make up 64% of the cases.

Clearly, from your own data, the vaccines work.

Assuming they were effectual at prevention at all, still no where near the rate Pfizer nor the FDA claimed (91%)

Pfizer doc released due to court order. 1223 deaths, 23 spontaineous abortions, 42k+ AEs

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