Why I think all non-human creatures go to heaven

Bob8102

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There is an assertion that I make that some others have a problem agreeing with. I have compelling reason to believe that anything with a will to live is a supernatural person and is eternal. This includes not only what we call "animals," but insects - flies, mosquitos, ants, etc. I at first reached this conclusion for any multi-celled creature with a brain. But my brother said he heard that even single-celled animals, like bacteria, protozoans, etc., exhibit a "fright and flight" response to possible external threats. I didn't know what to think about them, for a while. But more recently I have concluded that ANYTHING with a will to live is eternal.


Here are two components of the compelling evidence upon which I base this conclusion. The first is that science has a real problem in trying to figure out consciousness: awareness of one's own existence and of one's environment. That is because there is no natural mechanism which can cause consciousness. I saw a book in a bookstore one time which attempted to address consciousness from a scientific point of view. it even made the claim that consciousness was "the collapse of the wave function." (Wave function has to do with quantum physics.) Also, a teacher of mine in high school one time brought his dog into the classroom. His dog was a St. Bernard named "Brandy." This was a philosophy class and the teacher had something to say about animals. He insisted that animals were not aware of their own existence. He assuredly thought this because there is compelling reason to believe that awareness is a supernatural phenomenon. He, as a Jesuit brother, could not believe that animals have spirits. If they are just biological mechanisms, they cannot be aware. But if anyone looks at how any animal behaves, one can readily see that animals are aware of their own existence and of their environment.


The other major piece of evidence is this: When God created the earth and all its creatures, everything in nature was perfect and set to last for eternity. If not only Adam and Eve had not sinned, but NO ONE in all earth's history sinned, the creation would have remained in its original, perfect state forever. All living things created a during creation week, and all their offspring that would come about during the history of the earth's time of procreation, would have remained alive forever. Because of Adam's sin and the Curse which God placed on Nature, all living things became doomed to die. Through no fault of their own, all lower-than-human creatures lost their eternal life that they otherwise would have been blessed with. Is that like God to curse someone into non-existence due to someone else's fault? No! All creatures on earth were given eternal life according to the original plan of creation! Therefore, I conclude that all denizens of what scientists call the "animal Kingdom" are supernatural, eternal beings.
 
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Albion

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Is that like God to curse someone into non-existence due to someone else's fault? No!
The moment that anyone falls back on this kind of argument, a rationalization, we know that the theory being propounded is just that person's wish. And if mosquitos are guaranteed to live forever in heaven but humans are not...is that like God?
:mmh:
 
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Petros2015

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Therefore, I conclude that all denizens of what scientists call the "animal Kingdom" are supernatural, eternal beings.

Perhaps; but I am not sure that heaven is the eternal home of parasites
 
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Hmm

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There is an assertion that I make that some others have a problem agreeing with. I have compelling reason to believe that anything with a will to live is a supernatural person and is eternal. This includes not only what we call "animals," but insects - flies, mosquitos, ants, etc. I at first reached this conclusion for any multi-celled creature with a brain. But my brother said he heard that even single-celled animals, like bacteria, protozoans, etc., exhibit a "fright and flight" response to possible external threats. I didn't know what to think about them, for a while. But more recently I have concluded that ANYTHING with a will to live is eternal.


Here are two components of the compelling evidence upon which I base this conclusion. The first is that science has a real problem in trying to figure out consciousness: awareness of one's own existence and of one's environment. That is because there is no natural mechanism which can cause consciousness. I saw a book in a bookstore one time which attempted to address consciousness from a scientific point of view. it even made the claim that consciousness was "the collapse of the wave function." (Wave function has to do with quantum physics.) Also, a teacher of mine in high school one time brought his dog into the classroom. His dog was a St. Bernard named "Brandy." This was a philosophy class and the teacher had something to say about animals. He insisted that animals were not aware of their own existence. He assuredly thought this because there is compelling reason to believe that awareness is a supernatural phenomenon. He, as a Jesuit brother, could not believe that animals have spirits. If they are just biological mechanisms, they cannot be aware. But if anyone looks at how any animal behaves, one can readily see that animals are aware of their own existence and of their environment.


The other major piece of evidence is this: When God created the earth and all its creatures, everything in nature was perfect and set to last for eternity. If not only Adam and Eve had not sinned, but NO ONE in all earth's history sinned, the creation would have remained in its original, perfect state forever. All living things created a during creation week, and all their offspring that would come about during the history of the earth's time of procreation, would have remained alive forever. Because of Adam's sin and the Curse which God placed on Nature, all living things became doomed to die. Through no fault of their own, all lower-than-human creatures lost their eternal life that they otherwise would have been blessed with. Is that like God to curse someone into non-existence due to someone else's fault? No! All creatures on earth were given eternal life according to the original plan of creation! Therefore, I conclude that all denizens of what scientists call the "animal Kingdom" are supernatural, eternal beings.

I agree, it's scriptural:

In him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
Colossians 1:19–20.
 
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eleos1954

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There is an assertion that I make that some others have a problem agreeing with. I have compelling reason to believe that anything with a will to live is a supernatural person and is eternal. This includes not only what we call "animals," but insects - flies, mosquitos, ants, etc. I at first reached this conclusion for any multi-celled creature with a brain. But my brother said he heard that even single-celled animals, like bacteria, protozoans, etc., exhibit a "fright and flight" response to possible external threats. I didn't know what to think about them, for a while. But more recently I have concluded that ANYTHING with a will to live is eternal.


Here are two components of the compelling evidence upon which I base this conclusion. The first is that science has a real problem in trying to figure out consciousness: awareness of one's own existence and of one's environment. That is because there is no natural mechanism which can cause consciousness. I saw a book in a bookstore one time which attempted to address consciousness from a scientific point of view. it even made the claim that consciousness was "the collapse of the wave function." (Wave function has to do with quantum physics.) Also, a teacher of mine in high school one time brought his dog into the classroom. His dog was a St. Bernard named "Brandy." This was a philosophy class and the teacher had something to say about animals. He insisted that animals were not aware of their own existence. He assuredly thought this because there is compelling reason to believe that awareness is a supernatural phenomenon. He, as a Jesuit brother, could not believe that animals have spirits. If they are just biological mechanisms, they cannot be aware. But if anyone looks at how any animal behaves, one can readily see that animals are aware of their own existence and of their environment.


The other major piece of evidence is this: When God created the earth and all its creatures, everything in nature was perfect and set to last for eternity. If not only Adam and Eve had not sinned, but NO ONE in all earth's history sinned, the creation would have remained in its original, perfect state forever. All living things created a during creation week, and all their offspring that would come about during the history of the earth's time of procreation, would have remained alive forever. Because of Adam's sin and the Curse which God placed on Nature, all living things became doomed to die. Through no fault of their own, all lower-than-human creatures lost their eternal life that they otherwise would have been blessed with. Is that like God to curse someone into non-existence due to someone else's fault? No! All creatures on earth were given eternal life according to the original plan of creation! Therefore, I conclude that all denizens of what scientists call the "animal Kingdom" are supernatural, eternal beings.

The bible doesn't talk about animals being in heaven .... however does talk about them being on the new earth He will create. Whether or not He will newly create the animal kingdom or restore them from His original creation is unknown .... I would like to think so as I have been blessed by entire life by the creatures He put in my care.

Regardless .... all of creation will be in harmony for eternity. AMEN !!!!

Even so ..... come Lord Jesus!!
 
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Mark Quayle

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He, as a Jesuit brother, could not believe that animals have spirits. If they are just biological mechanisms, they cannot be aware. But if anyone looks at how any animal behaves, one can readily see that animals are aware of their own existence and of their environment.

You have a point here. I have seen a sow (hog) hyperventilating from being driven too hard, and she began worrying about herself (according to the owner) to the point that she couldn't stop hyperventilating and ended up dying of a heart attack. Other animals are more aware, I think, than we realize, and more intelligent, with even reasoning abilities.

Nevertheless, the idea that an animal must have a spirit, of the same sort that we do, to be with us in the afterlife, is to me, a bit more than we know. Our bodies will be glorified, and the old way of things will be gone. The animals? —why would the lack of a spirit, if they have none now, have anything to do with their 'new self'?

The other major piece of evidence is this: When God created the earth and all its creatures, everything in nature was perfect and set to last for eternity. If not only Adam and Eve had not sinned, but NO ONE in all earth's history sinned, the creation would have remained in its original, perfect state forever. All living things created a during creation week, and all their offspring that would come about during the history of the earth's time of procreation, would have remained alive forever.

Here is where I disagree with you, or at least, doubt your assertion:

A: 'Very good' is not 'perfect' in two ways: 1st. because what God called very good means that he was satisfied with it, as it was at that time, which does not imply at all that it could not be or become better. 2ly. and the more important, that 'perfect' implies 'complete'. Not much was final product in the Garden, except maybe produce, and the design/DNA of living creatures. We still had 7,000 (at least) years to go, to get to see the final product.
B: The notion that everything would have continued forever is, to my mind, not only doubtful, but a pointless assumption. God never planned for the Creation to continue forever as is; in fact he made it precisely as he did for him to be its Redeemer. What Adam did was not unplanned, nor what the Serpent did. God never needs "Plan B". The Garden was a lesson, and part of the larger plan.

When people like a teaching that the Bible doesn't quite say, because it makes sense to them, has a feel of balance, or rings true to them, it can still be wrong. When it continues, it becomes accepted as truth, simply assumed.
 
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DavidPT

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There is an assertion that I make that some others have a problem agreeing with. I have compelling reason to believe that anything with a will to live is a supernatural person and is eternal. This includes not only what we call "animals," but insects - flies, mosquitos, ants, etc. I at first reached this conclusion for any multi-celled creature with a brain. But my brother said he heard that even single-celled animals, like bacteria, protozoans, etc., exhibit a "fright and flight" response to possible external threats. I didn't know what to think about them, for a while. But more recently I have concluded that ANYTHING with a will to live is eternal.


Here are two components of the compelling evidence upon which I base this conclusion. The first is that science has a real problem in trying to figure out consciousness: awareness of one's own existence and of one's environment. That is because there is no natural mechanism which can cause consciousness. I saw a book in a bookstore one time which attempted to address consciousness from a scientific point of view. it even made the claim that consciousness was "the collapse of the wave function." (Wave function has to do with quantum physics.) Also, a teacher of mine in high school one time brought his dog into the classroom. His dog was a St. Bernard named "Brandy." This was a philosophy class and the teacher had something to say about animals. He insisted that animals were not aware of their own existence. He assuredly thought this because there is compelling reason to believe that awareness is a supernatural phenomenon. He, as a Jesuit brother, could not believe that animals have spirits. If they are just biological mechanisms, they cannot be aware. But if anyone looks at how any animal behaves, one can readily see that animals are aware of their own existence and of their environment.


The other major piece of evidence is this: When God created the earth and all its creatures, everything in nature was perfect and set to last for eternity. If not only Adam and Eve had not sinned, but NO ONE in all earth's history sinned, the creation would have remained in its original, perfect state forever. All living things created a during creation week, and all their offspring that would come about during the history of the earth's time of procreation, would have remained alive forever. Because of Adam's sin and the Curse which God placed on Nature, all living things became doomed to die. Through no fault of their own, all lower-than-human creatures lost their eternal life that they otherwise would have been blessed with. Is that like God to curse someone into non-existence due to someone else's fault? No! All creatures on earth were given eternal life according to the original plan of creation! Therefore, I conclude that all denizens of what scientists call the "animal Kingdom" are supernatural, eternal beings.

Does this mean that, fish for example, before the fall of man, was never meant to be eaten by other fish or by humans, and that it would have been this way for all eternity had man not fallen?

Speaking of fish.

Ezekiel 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.


This appears to be involving the eternal age since that is what verse 12 appears to be involving because it is describing some of the same things we see in Revelation 22 involving the new Jerusalem and the new heavens and new earth. And here they are, in verse 10, spreading forth their nets. For what reason? To just catch them and throw them back in, thus making a sport out of it, or maybe to catch them for food instead? If the latter, so much for there no longer being death during the NHNE since I'm pretty certain these fish have to die in order to be eaten.
 
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Petros2015

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"Sorry fish, we had to draw the line somewhere..."

Wondering a little what a glorified Great White would look like...

I think maybe there is room for some things we have touched though, if we touched them well.
==

But I have forgotten. And only partly do I remember the unbearable beauty of her face.

“Is it?...is it?” I whispered to my guide.
“Not at all,” said he. “It's someone ye'll never have heard of. Her name on earth was Sarah Smith and she lived at Golders Green.”
“She seems to be...well, a person of particular importance?”
“Aye. She is one of the great ones. Ye have heard that fame in this country and fame on Earth are two quite different things.”
“And who are these gigantic people...look! They're like emeralds...who are dancing and throwing flowers before here?”
“Haven't ye read your Milton? A thousand liveried angels lackey her.”
“And who are all these young men and women on each side?”
“They are her sons and daughters.”
“She must have had a very large family, Sir.”
“Every young man or boy that met her became her son – even if it was only the boy that brought the meat to her back door. Every girl that met her was her daughter.”
“Isn't that a bit hard on their own parents?”
“No. There are those that steal other people's children. But her motherhood was of a different kind. Those on whom it fell went back to their natural parents loving them more. Few men looked on her without becoming, in a certain fashion, her lovers. But it was the kind of love that made them not less true, but truer, to their own wives.”
“And how...but hullo! What are all these animals? A cat-two cats-dozens of cats. And all those dogs...why, I can't count them. And the birds. And the horses.”
“They are her beasts.”
“Did she keep a sort of zoo? I mean, this is a bit too much.”
“Every beast and bird that came near her had its place in her love. In her they became themselves. And now the abundance of life she has in Christ from the Father flows over into them.”
I looked at my Teacher in amazement.
“Yes,” he said. “It is like when you throw a stone into a pool, and the concentric waves spread out further and further. Who knows where it will end? Redeemed humanity is still young, it has hardly come to its full strength. But already there is joy enough in the little finger of a great saint such as yonder lady to waken all the dead things of the universe into life.”

~C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce
 
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Eftsoon

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The animal kingdom does exhibit signs of spiritual awareness. There is no practical reason or motivation for the elaborate mourning rituals that higher species perform. Many animals also have complex emotions which go beyond survival. These things suggest an interiority which I believe may well be preserved and raised up to the degree of eloquence. That is, there may be an ennoblement (As CS Lewis puts it). The force and richness of the bonds we form with animals here on Earth may well be raised to a higher level in heaven.
 
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TedT

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The other major piece of evidence is this: When God created the earth and all its creatures, everything in nature was perfect and set to last for eternity.

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

14 So the LORD God said to the serpent:
“Because you have done this,
cursed are you above all livestock
and every beast of the field!


Crafty is `rm in Hebrew, transliterated. It means crafty or cunning in being evil and the word more/above implies that his cunning (and his judgement) is shared by the other animals of the field but to a lesser extent, evil lite so to speak.

The animals were also specifically included in GOD's condemnation by flood of the sins of the world:
Gen 6:5 Then the LORD saw that the WICKEDNESS of man was great upon the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time. 6 And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them.”

Besides the boggle of how they came to fall and be judged sinners, does this justify the conclusion that "everything in nature was perfect and set to last for eternity"?
 
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Bob8102

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One time, I saw a large ant crawling up my bedroom wall toward the window sill. I hit it, intending to kill it. My aim was off and I only wounded it. It fell off the wall into some stuff I had on the floor so that I could not readily find it. Hours or a day later, I noticed the ant had managed to crawl back up the wall, made it to the window sill, then died. That ant had as strong a will to live as any human!

My neighbor has a three-legged cat. Not only is that cat handicapped for the rest of his/her life, but, even worse than that, someday he's going to die. Is that the kind of life God gives some of His creatures, especially creatures who are incapable of sinning against Him? I assert, no. The cat is going to heaven and/or be forever on a new planet in the new universe, which God promises.

To those who wonder about the death of creatures, I insist that in the beginning, everything was perfect and set to last in a perfect state for eternity. Then Adam sinned and God cursed nature. Nothing was created to be killed or eaten in the original plan of creation. Before the fall of Man, and the Curse, there was no death nor dog-eat-dog law of the jungle. Death, disease, dismemberment, etc., came about because of the Curse, and the Curse came about because of Sin. Before the curse, and after God ends the Curse, parasites were not/will not be parasitical. Mosquitos did not/will not bite humans or animals. Even today, some mosquitos do not bite animals but get their juices entirely from plants. I propose that's the way all mosquitos were before the Curse, and the way they will all be again after the Curse ends.

Evolutionism not only denies the power of God to have created a perfect, death-free creation, the reason it gives for the existence of death is all wrong. If anyone is wrong about how life came to exist, they will be wrong about how death came to exist. The mainstream scientific/educational/media communities misdiagnose Man's problem and the cause of death in nature. Therefore, they cannot offer any real solution to the problem.
 
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mama2one

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Isaiah 11:6-9
And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper’s den.
read more.

Isaiah 65:25
Verse Concepts
The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain,” says the Lord.


Luke 3:6 - And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.
 
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TedT

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I insist that in the beginning, everything was perfect and set to last in a perfect state for eternity.
Yes, many are the people who insist the bible tells us lies...such as that the animals are not fallen, sinful and cursed. The will to live means nothing - even Satan has a tremendous will to live.
 
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