Here's a simply question that might help the discussion FG2. If someone who chooses to reject God's Word and depart the faith in order to continue in known unrepentant sin, are they in that moment a believer or and unbeliever?
This is a distraction from the truth. The question is actually bogus. And irrelevant.
The truth of Scripture is that when a person puts their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, they become a new creature, a child of God, sealed with the Holy Spirit. Can any of these things be revoked? No. Or there would be verses that clearly make that case.
And there are 2 verses that prove that once there is belief, there will be NO condemnation.
John 3:18 - Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they
have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
2 Thess 2:12 - and so that all will be condemned who
have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
Both verses have the same wording: "have not believed" to indicate who WILL BE conemned.
iow, these verses make clear that once there is belief in Christ, there will be NO condemnation for them. No exceptions.
So, whether you call a believer who has left the faith an unbeliever, or something else, doesn't matter. If they ever were a believer, then they WILL NOT be condemned.
Now if you answer this question honestly, how is any scripture you have provided in the discussion relevant?
Seriously? Every verse I've shared here is totally relevant. It is God's inerrent Word.
They are not because those who depart the faith are no longer believers but by departing the faith have now become unbelievers.
Both John 3:18 abd 2 Thess 2:12 refute your claim.
Only those who "have not believed", which means "have NEVER believed" will be condemned.
Now look at the scriptures you provided now and earlier. You posted
John 5:24 which says [24], Truly, truly, I say to you,
He that hears my word, and believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on him that sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death to life. Now go look up the
believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) it is a verb that is
present participle active and means present tense active to "
believing" so the scripture says "he that hears my words and is believing on him that sent me has everlasting life. If some one has departed the faith they are no longer believing but are unbelieving and the scripture is fulfilled in John 3:36 which uses the same Greek word application as John 5:24. Have a look at John 3:36 [36], He that believes
believes (G4100 πιστεύων V-PPA-NMS = believing) on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him. Now let's look at your other scripture; John 10:26-28 says [26], But
you believe (G4100 πιστεύων V-PIA-2P believing) not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you. [27],
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: [28],
And I give to them eternal life; and
they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Sorry to have to refute your claims here, but you are simply not believing what Jesus said.
In John 5:24 both 'believes' and 'has' are present tense. This means that the MOMENT one believes, they HAVE, or possess, eternal life. That is a fact.
And Jesus was clear about recipients of eternal life in John 10:28. They shall never perish.
Note here who are God's sheep and who are not God's sheep? Those who believe not and do not follow what God's Word says are not God's sheep *John 10:26.
Nope. v.26 is NOT a condition for becoming a sheep of Jesus. There are no words that would lead to such a conclusion. One becomes a sheep of Jesus via Jn 5:24 and believing in Him. And such who do possess eternal life and shall never perish, just as Jesus said.
While we are told in John 10:27 God's sheep hear His voice (the Word of God) and they follow it and in John 10:28 it is those who believe (believing) God gives eternal life not those who depart the faith to become "unbelieving".
You woefully misunderstand John 5:24. Those who believe possess eternal life. The very moment they believe. So Jesus gives them eternal life WHEN they believe. That is perfectly clear from John 5:24. Please believe the Bible and Jesus.
Now let's get something clear before continuing. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and
not of works lest any man should boast *
Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is
not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *
Romans 3:9-23;
2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins. According to the scriptures, obedience to Gods' law therefore is the
fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the
fruit of God's work in us *
Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *
John 10:26-27. If our faith has no
fruit it is dead *
James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *
Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50;
Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *
Romans 3:31;
1 John 5:3-4;
Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *
1 John 3:6-10;
Revelation 12:17;
Revelation 14:12;
Revelation 22:14. Therefore says Jesus you shall know them (who is from God and who is not) by their
fruit. *
Matthew 7:16-20;
John 15:1-6;
1 John 2:3-4. According to the scriptures no one receives God's Grace if they do not believe and follow what God's Word says (see
John 3:16-21;
Hebrews 10:26-31). As posted earlier God's sheep hear His voice (the Word) and follow it.
you've thrown in a whole lot of verses, but seem to not understand any of them, in light of what Jesus said.
It seems you think all these verses you have cited somehow undo what Jesus said about those who believe possess eternal life and shall never perish.
It is never a good idea to try to pit Scripture against itself. What Jesus said stands. It cannot be refuted by any other verse.
Believing that a recipient of eternal life can end up perishing is to go directly opposite of what Jesus taught.
Now can you tell me what it is that has been posted in the scriptures here that you disagree with and why you disagree?
Take Care dear friend.
I disagree with every verse that you think supports your claim that salvation can be lost.
There are no verses that teach that, or what Jesus said cannot be true.
What you need to believe is that at the moment of faith in Christ, the believer possesses eternal life. And the result of possessing eternal life is never perishing.
