The Gospel of UR: What's the message?

renniks · Oct 15, 2021

MMXX said:
I've never heard of it not being about being judged in the afterlife for how one conducted things on earth.

Ok, but that's not what I was talking about. I think the UR sees it as a kind of purgatory.
I think it takes place at a point in time and then we go to heaven or hell.

Shrewd Manager · Oct 15, 2021

Clare73 said:
Are you mocking God's heaven?

By their fruits you shall know them.

Yes thank you Clare, I stand corrected, it's more like:

God is mercifully consigning them to eternity in hell in order to spare them from ONE DAY in Pharisee heaven.

That's closer to an even scale, no?

renniks · Oct 15, 2021

Saint Steven said:
According to what doctrinal standard? There is no consensus on "correct doctrine". Catholic doctrine? Protestant doctrine? Orthodox doctrine? Calvinist doctrine?

According to God's standard obviously.

renniks · Oct 15, 2021

Hmm said:
That's quite a stretch. The passage does not mention church work or teaching at all.

Of course it does.
Here's the context:

"What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care."

renniks · Oct 15, 2021

Saint Steven said:
The Christian that wakes up in the morning thinking, "What can I do for God today?", is already off on the wrong foot. They are in for a whole day of wood, hay, and straw.

When will we learn from Jesus? (John 5:19) That is where the gold, silver, costly stones are. Listen to God for SPECIFIC instructions

Nothing wrong with asking what you can do for God today if it leads to actually asking him.

Saint Steven · Oct 15, 2021

renniks said:
According to God's standard obviously.

Which one is "God's standard"?
Catholic doctrine? Protestant doctrine? Orthodox doctrine? Calvinist doctrine? Or ???

Saint Steven said: ↑
According to what doctrinal standard? There is no consensus on "correct doctrine". Catholic doctrine? Protestant doctrine? Orthodox doctrine? Calvinist doctrine?

Saint Steven · Oct 15, 2021

renniks said:
Nothing wrong with asking what you can do for God today if it leads to actually asking him.

I was addressing those who ask themselves the question, and answer the question themselves.

Saint Steven said: ↑
The Christian that wakes up in the morning thinking, "What can I do for God today?", is already off on the wrong foot. They are in for a whole day of wood, hay, and straw.

When will we learn from Jesus? (John 5:19) That is where the gold, silver, costly stones are. Listen to God for SPECIFIC instructions

Hmm · Oct 15, 2021

renniks said:
Of course it does.
Here's the context:

"What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care."

Your supposed wider context does not mention church work or teaching either. Verse 9 is the key: For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

2PhiloVoid · Oct 15, 2021

Saint Steven said:
You can open the context up wide enough to make this say whatever you want. Don't you people know anything about NEAR context?

ok. Steven. I don't accept that language you're using, "... you people."

And yes, being that I had a class on basic exegesis long ago at Bible College, and now I have over 20 books on Hermeneutics and Exegesis, I DO know at least a little something about NEAR context and the several other layers of interconnected contexts that make up just about any text, whether in the Bible or in any other piece of literature.

Y'know, you need to stop this digging and invective you keep sticking at people. I identify you as a fellow bother and I don't attempt to go around disparaging you. I don't do it to you, don't do it to me.

2PhiloVoid · Oct 15, 2021

Hmm said:
You need to consider the wider exegetical and hermeneutical meaning of fire imagery within the context of scripture as a whole yet still paying specific attention as to how the verse structure and rhythmic devices of this particular passage are used to underline this, reinforce that and come to terms with the fundamental dichotomies of the other so that the reader is left with no doubt as to what it is about. I humbly suggest.

Isn't this what I've been saying myself??????????????

Hmm · Oct 15, 2021

2PhiloVoid said:
Isn't this what I've been saying myself??????????????

If you think so. It was an obviously failed attempt at humour.

2PhiloVoid · Oct 15, 2021

Hmm said:
If you think so. It was an obviously failed attempt at humour.

...well, if you're wanting to be humorous, then maybe place a little "tongue-in-cheek" emoticon next to your statement to give your reader an indication that that's the effect you're implying.

renniks · Oct 15, 2021

Saint Steven said:
Which one is "God's standard"?
Catholic doctrine? Protestant doctrine? Orthodox doctrine? Calvinist doctrine? Or ???

Saint Steven said: ↑
According to what doctrinal standard? There is no consensus on "correct doctrine". Catholic doctrine? Protestant doctrine? Orthodox doctrine? Calvinist doctrine?

Lol, kinda missed the point. We will know what God's standard is when he judges our doctrine.

renniks · Oct 15, 2021

Hmm said:
Your supposed wider context does not mention church work or teaching either. Verse 9 is the key: For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

What is Paul talking about if not teaching the gospel?

Hmm · Oct 15, 2021

renniks said:
What is Paul talking about if not teaching the gospel?

Being active participants in building His kingdom on earth. That includes building each other up of course but it's something we are all called to do, not just church ministry teams.

That's my opinion anyway but this becoming off topic so I'm not going to argue the point.

Clare73 · Oct 15, 2021

Saint Steven said:
According to what doctrinal standard? There is no consensus on "correct doctrine". Catholic doctrine? Protestant doctrine? Orthodox doctrine? Calvinist doctrine?

That would be according to gospel doctrine.

Clare73 · Oct 15, 2021

Hmm said:
Or, given the usually usage of the imagery of fire, straw and chaff in scripture, he is not confining himself to ministry expounding a wider spiritual truth. Just saying.

Nope. . .

In context, it is life (v.3) and doctrine (v.6).

renniks · Oct 15, 2021

Hmm said:
Being active participants in building His kingdom on earth. That includes building each other up of course but it's something we are all to do, not just church ministry teams.

That's my opinion anyway but this becoming off topic so I'm not going to argue the point.

I didn't say just church ministries. The church is all believers.

Clare73 · Oct 15, 2021

Saint Steven said:
You can open the context up wide enough to make this say whatever you want. Don't you people know anything about NEAR context?

The Gospels were an oral tradition before they were written down. As were the OT scriptures. Saul (Paul) knew who Jesus was when he met him on the road to Damascus. As you may recall, Saul was the young man holding the coats while Stephen was being stoned in Acts chapter seven. (Acts 7:58)

But aside from that, this a basic concept about the Christian life that seems to be lost on most Christians.

Hearing God's voice. (John 10:27) Most claim to ONLY hear God's voice when they read the Bible. That is only one source.And self-interpretation leads to well-intentioned, but self-directed works. (wood, hay and straw)

And to what does self-interpretation of "God's voice" outside Scripture lead to?

Get the net. . .

Clare73 · Oct 15, 2021

Shrewd Manager said:
Yes thank you Clare, I stand corrected, it's more like:
God is mercifully consigning them to eternity in hell in order to spare them from ONE DAY in Pharisee heaven.
That's closer to an even scale, no?

Not at all. . .God's heaven is still nominated "Pharisee heaven" and still being mocked.

The Gospel of UR: What's the message?

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