Andrew Wiggins on his forced vaccination: "You don't own your body...

A_Thinker

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Expectations are one thing.
But freedom to follow your conscious is why this country was founded in the first place.
When those freedoms are denied, then we cease to be a free Country, and we risk becoming the thing that our ancestors fled from.
Understand that your position seems to be that you want to disallow any societal pressure ... in a society in which you choose to be a part of. Noone is forcing anyone to get vaccinated. There are, however, societally imposed sanctions upon those which refuse to act to support the general welfare of the society.

Also, you may disagree, but COVID is a temporary situation ... which, it could be argued, merits special treatment (for the promotion of the general welfare).
 
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tz620q

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Understand that your position seems to be that you want to disallow any societal pressure ... in a society in which you choose to be a part of. Noone is forcing anyone to get vaccinated. There are, however, societally imposed sanctions upon those which refuse to act to support the general welfare of the society.

Also, you may disagree, but COVID is a temporary situation ... which, it could be argued, merits special treatment (for the promotion of the general welfare).
It is not that we cannot see the force of your argument. You raise very good points in that all societies impose laws upon their members. These laws should be kept to a minimum so as not to trespass too severely on the beliefs and individual rights of these members. Those rights include life (certainly the unvaccinated are taking their lives in their hands and accepting a higher risk to their health), liberty (obviously liberty can be curtailed if the member transgresses against the law), and the pursuit of happiness (well, this last year saw a lot of temporary measures that tromped all over that one). So usually the argument is made that individual rights should be preserved up to the point where the exercising of that right causes undue harm to others. That is the crux of the argument here and one that has a very divided opinion. I think Biden does a horrible job at messaging in that he calls the current COVID cases "the pandemic of the unvaccinated" and yet says that these unvaccinated people should be forced to get the vaccine to prevent them from spreading the disease. Yet vaccines are readily available and nearly everyone that wanted to get vaccinated has been. So you are impinging on the rights of the unvaccinated, who are accepting the risks to their health, with not a law; but an executive order. This reduction of freedom sets a precedent for future events like this and makes it easier for the government to make similar rulings on other perceived public safety topics. We do not see the public health benefit in this case being more important than the preservation of inalienable rights.
 
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anna ~ grace

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...if you want to work in society these days."

He's not happy about being forced to get vaccinated and says he worries about his health later down the road. He wishes everyone the best of luck.

Bless this man. He’s really unhappy and cheesed off about it. I would be, too. His words to others who may choose not to get this thing stood out for me; stay strong.

I know we have CF members who will not have jobs soon if they refuse these shots. That’s a terrible choice to have to make. I don’t fault anyone for just getting this thing to put food on the table, but that’s not a choice anyone should have to make.

I don’t like the coercion. One bit. I don’t like how the Vatican has mandated a Covid Vaccine App to enter the City. That just strikes me as so weird, unnecessary, and the opposite of welcoming, which Pope Francis claims to be about. Some EO are being told they can’t come back to Divine Liturgy until they’re vaccinated. Can you believe it?! So unreal…
 
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dogs4thewin

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One way, get a vaccination or you are selfish, is an act of emotional blackmail, which is manipulative abuse. The other way, is deciding against a vaccine no one knows how it's going to effect them in the long run, but as a personal choice, it doesn't require anyone to do anything for them; get a vaccine if you want to, or don't, whatever.
There are those of us that believe that the vaccine wasn't made for covid, but rather, covid was made for the vaccine. But why, how could this be? Because those of us that believe know that someday there will be a beast that calls upon all of man to receive a mark that none shall buy or sell unless they do, and lo and behold, the vaccine passport. This passport may or may not be the mark, but it is most assuredly tied into it, and while I am not afraid for my life over a little prick, I am concerned for my soul, as all those that receive the mark will be cast into the lake of fire. It is a matter of conscience I do not do this thing, and to expect others to compromise their conscience doesn't make the vaccine hesitant selfish, it makes the vaccinated fearful.
Couple this all with a certain obvious fact, there are things about both this disease and the vaccine that is being kept from the people, as well as alternative treatments purposefully being demonized by the media and people in power. I will never understand how we as a people can't tell the difference between trusting the science and obeying the powers that be... as the latter is precisely what this is until they actually become transparent and show us the science.
Keep in mind this is not the first mandated vaccine. It is the first many Americans remember and it is the first that all but the oldest Americans are the age of majority for ( thus being able to decide for themselves whether to get it or not in the beginning, but it is not the first mandated vaccine. As to a vaccine passport that has two parts ( the first being that this would be FAR from the only vaccine that is mandated to travel overseas ( different countries have different requirements and some have more than others, but it would not be the only one. The other part of that is I am wondering if the mandates ( not so much for healthcare workers or certain other jobs, but more for concerts, ball games things like that will be as big once this settles down and the hospitals are not so overrun that people are dying of non-co-vid related things because mostly the unvaxed are taking up too many beds. The only way to know that is time. I WILL say that as of now I DO support mandates for such activities and I DO ( and will no matter how longer this goes support a private employer's right to set such a requirement for employment.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Bless this man. He’s really unhappy and cheesed off about it. I would be, too. His words to others who may choose not to get this thing stood out for me; stay strong.

I know we have CF members who will not have jobs soon if they refuse these shots. That’s a terrible choice to have to make. I don’t fault anyone for just getting this thing to put food on the table, but that’s not a choice anyone should have to make.

I don’t like the coercion. One bit. I don’t like how the Vatican has mandated a Covid Vaccine App to enter the City. That just strikes me as so weird, unnecessary, and the opposite of welcoming, which Pope Francis claims to be about. Some EO are being told they can’t come back to Divine Liturgy until they’re vaccinated. Can you believe it?! So unreal…
I can tell you why it is mandated to enter the city to keep co-vid out as much as they can. Yes people who took the vaccine can get and spread it, but it has been shown that when/if they do they have fewer issues and are somewhat less likely to do either.
 
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Gnarwhal

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I, too,thought that there was a terrible dichotomy between this ideology that likes to use power to take choice away from others, until that power is used to take choice away from themselves. Then I realized that in this narcissitic society, the liberal mind is wired to political activism to impose power and ideas over others, while maintaining complete self autonomy. It seems a paradox in logic; but in truth is self-cohesive as long as one can maintain the completely narcissitic viewpoint that separates themselves from the rest of humanity.

You nailed it, their entire party, platform, and ideology completely hinges on a double standard.

Think of it like truth wars. My truth should be prevalent and I will do whatever it takes to impose my truth on you; but if you impose your truth on me, that is just wrong; because you obviously are wrong if you disagree with me. This is strangely a consistent viewpoint as long as you refuse to admit any falsity to your view. The minute you see the first false value, the whole system crashes down and you are forced to reevaluate everything. That is why this viewpoint is somewhat inconsistent with Christianity and will only survive in a secular world. Christians realize our sinfulness and therefor our brokenness and our ability to deceive even ourselves. With that comes a call for reform and hopefully a more formed conscience.

And the irony of it is that this premise itself is totally reliant on a fallacy that truth is subjective in the first place.
 
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Wolseley

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Keep in mind this is not the first mandated vaccine.

That's true. The question, however, is this: is it the first vaccine that has been placed into widespread use (and possible mandate) without first having had years of testing on human subjects? Is it the first vaccine that was placed into distribution without first obtaining the approval of the FDA?

I am old enough to remember the swine flu outbreak in 1976, where people panicked, figuring it was a repeat of the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic (it wasn't) and the government ordered mass vaccinations. The vaccines were rushed into production, and shortly after they began, four people died of heart attacks, and the CDC discovered that the instance of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) was four times higher in people who had gotten the vaccine that in those who hadn't. GBS cases increased in eleven states, and the vaccine program was stropped and withdrawn. The head of the CDC lost his job in the aftermath.

1976 swine flu outbreak - Wikipedia

I can tell you why it is mandated to enter the city to keep co-vid out as much as they can. Yes people who took the vaccine can get and spread it, but it has been shown that when/if they do they have fewer issues and are somewhat less likely to do either.

The problem is the myriads of stories out there like this one:

sick kid.jpg


Holly Sinclair
September 26 at 5:20 PM ·

Gabe (17) received the second dose of Pf—and the following day began experiencing severe chest pains, dizziness, high fever, nausea, and vomiting.

After spending ten hours in the emergency room he was diagnosed with myocarditis, inflammation of the heart wall. The hospital admitted that this is an adverse reaction they're beginning to see among adolescents, especially young males, who have received the vaccine. He's being treated with various medications and has been sent home for observation.

"We told him to make the decision for himself (he's almost 18). He's not thinking it was such a good idea right now." (M. Gillespie, mother)

My wife suffers from tachycardia and atrial fibrillation, which has landed her in the emergency room numerous times. She has flatly stated that she will not get a Covid shot, because she is firmly convinced that it will kill her if she does.

As for myself, I'm on enough medication to float a battleship, for hypertension, diabetes, arthritis, GERD, PTSD, degenerative disc disease, and a few other goodies.....I am not about to risk injecting a vaccine into my system that nobody has any clue whatsoever what the long-term effects will end up being. Not gonna happen.
 
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anna ~ grace

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That's true. The question, however, is this: is it the first vaccine that has been placed into widespread use (and possible mandate) without first having had years of testing on human subjects? Is it the first vaccine that was placed into distribution without first obtaining the approval of the FDA?

I am old enough to remember the swine flu outbreak in 1976, where people panicked, figuring it was a repeat of the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic (it wasn't) and the government ordered mass vaccinations. The vaccines were rushed into production, and shortly after they began, four people died of heart attacks, and the CDC discovered that the instance of Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) was four times higher in people who had gotten the vaccine that in those who hadn't. GBS cases increased in eleven states, and the vaccine program was stropped and withdrawn. The head of the CDC lost his job in the aftermath.

1976 swine flu outbreak - Wikipedia



The problem is the myriads of stories out there like this one:

View attachment 306856



My wife suffers from tachycardia and atrial fibrillation, which has landed her in the emergency room numerous times. She has flatly stated that she will not get a Covid shot, because she is firmly convinced that it will kill her if she does.

As for myself, I'm on enough medication to float a battleship, for hypertension, diabetes, arthritis, GERD, PTSD, degenerative disc disease, and a few other goodies.....I am not about to risk injecting a vaccine into my system that nobody has any clue whatsoever what the long-term effects will end up being. Not gonna happen.

Which is why I deeply, deeply disapprove of these mandates. You’re basically putting a gun to every workers’ head and forcing them to get these vaccines, and if it does something horrible to them, oh well. Who’s responsible? Biden? Pfizer? Moderna?
 
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Sean611

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What is fascinating is that the people who do not identify as religious are actually some of the most religious people out there. However, instead of kneeling before the altar of God, they kneel before the altar of an all-powerful and almighty state (this includes "progressive" Christianity as well). What is funny (or sad) is that these same people who want to give the state unlimited power and control are the same ones who argue the government must have total power and control because men are wicked and we need government to keep us in check for the good of society. However, if one takes their logic to its conclusion, how does it make sense to give all the powers of government to a small portion of people? I thought all men were wicked? Are government officials somehow exempt from the wickedness of men in their role as lords of the state? Statism is the most ridiculous religion all, yet it is shocking how many people flock to their "betters" in order to be controlled and told how and what they are allowed to think and do.

Look up "democide" in the 20th century and take a look at how our government masters did when it came to protecting us from ourselves. Hundreds of millions of people killed by government and yet people still rush to surrender what little freedoms they have left. All of this Covid nonsense is about control, not some spurious "common good" drivel they prattle on about. What is shocking is that people still trust government in the 21st century.
 
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BrAndreyu

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Or we can remove those who don't want us to be free. We've done it before, can't wait til we do it again.

The problem is that people aren't motivated to do it again. The radical left has all but won because Christian conservatives aren't willing to stand for anything.
 
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BrAndreyu

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Look up "democide" in the 20th century and take a look at how our government masters did when it came to protecting us from ourselves. Hundreds of millions of people killed by government and yet people still rush to surrender what little freedoms they have left.

The twentieth century, because of Communism and Fascism, is the bloodiest century on record according to bishop Barron
 
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Sword of the Lord

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The problem is that people aren't motivated to do it again. The radical left has all but won because Christian conservatives aren't willing to stand for anything.
Good to see you back!
 
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BrAndreyu

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Good to see you back!

I was banned for a month for "encouraging violence" for talking about conservative revolt against Biden. In that time I got a full time job and gave up on disability and am making like quadruple what I would have got on SSI.

Free speech is dead. I just got suspended from Reddit for three days for saying a slang term for transsexuals
 
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Wolseley

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The problem is that people aren't motivated to do it again. The radical left has all but won because Christian conservatives aren't willing to stand for anything.

They aren't hungry enough yet. You have to wait until the Communazis have caused food shortages through their boneheaded mismanagement and people are faced with famine.

Then you'll action aplenty. But currently, America is at that awkward stage---it's too late to work within the system, but too early to start shooting.
 
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BrAndreyu

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too early to start shooting.

I feel like we'd actually be better off just letting them violently persecute us because then we'd look like martyrs. Take the MLK route... it worked for him.
 
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pdudgeon

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Yes, that is the historical next step: rounding up and shutting up those who refuse what is required.
It's been done so many times before before in world history, you would be thinking very logically indeed to assume that anyone who passed 7th grade would remember that.
But apparently not.
 
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BrAndreyu

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I already decided that I am not getting the booster. I'm going to wait for the Novavax product because it's supposed to actually work and keep you from catching, spreading, and dying of covid19. I just hope that it's safe to get after having had the worthless Pfizer product.

I'm actually not against vaccines. I have all of my vaccines, including Hepatitis B. I'm just against ones that do not actually work and even more against them being mandatory just because big Pharma has figured out a way to get tax dollars out of the public coffers and into their pockets.
 
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pdudgeon

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So while I am thankful for those who are concerned that I might catch covid because I have chosen the CO route, I did so with the full knowledge that I was risking my life, and that God already knows both the date and the circumstances under which I will die.
So I have been taking precautions to sanitize, I mask up, and I avoid social crowds when I can.
But I am also quite aware that it is entirely possible that the next event waiting offstage, is the public round up and forced arrest, and removal, of people who have not been vaccinated, in the name of public safety.
This kind of thing has happened before in history, so it's not out of the question that it could happen again..
 
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.Jeremiah.

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When did marriage devolve from something sacred to something secular? This is what happens when you get rid of the sacramental nature of things. Everything sacred gets pulled down to the human level and pearls get cast to the swine.
I think you would agree with this and I wish you a God blessed day. Perhaps A_Thinker will come back and discuss this with us more.
You are quite right.
Please read my other posts here.
 
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