Teacher Resigns After Parent Complains Pride Flag Is "Personal Agenda"

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Estrid

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MAGA hats and signs are not in the same vein as "All are welcome" or a rainbow flag, because we can easily demonstrate the link to white supremacy and other damaging aspects, while LGBTQ positivity is not something negative in terms of basic acknowledgement that they should be given respect

Also, NRA is explicitly trying to influence policy, a rainbow flag is not necessarily linked in the same way, because it doesn't have to be about policy, but principle.

And a front yard is decidedly a different context versus a school, because that's private property and the only major limitation would be civil statutes or HOA code versus anything in regards to a school having a captive audience of students and seeking education, not indoctrination.

A mere rainbow flag or such is not exclusionary at all, same as a BLM flag, because it is not saying white lives suck, it's saying they already matter and that systemic racism should be addressed, neither of which are controversial in the 21st century except in an absurdly white supremacist country like America where white fragility rules.

NRA "policy" being support of the. (American) constitution from further infringement.

Kinda like rainbow that way.

"Make America Great Again" does not include all Americsns?

I hear your flag makes a lot of Americans feel "uncomfortable", or,
"threatened".
 
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Albion

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Are you actually comparing a Nazi swastika with a gay pride flag?

Are those *really* equivalent in your mind?
They don't have to be "equivalent" for a valid point to be made about the teacher telling the student that this is the flag he can pledge allegiance to instead of the flag of his country. That was conveniently omitted from the Original Post here, you may have noticed.
 
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pitabread

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They don't have to be "equivalent" for a valid point to be made about the teacher telling the student that this is the flag he can pledge allegiance to instead of the flag of his country. That was conveniently omitted from the Original Post here, you may have noticed.

How is this relevant to the juxtaposition of a Nazi flag with a gay pride flag? :scratch:
 
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mark46

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I am discussing the political issue more than the specific case. This has been an issue in many workplaces, most relevant in schools and offices of public officials.

You seem to want to create a right to hang flags and other such items at one's workplace. You want this to be OK for some and not OK for others. You want the school or other employer to have policies that you agree with.

1) I do not believe that anyone has a right to hang a flag in his or her office. And, yes, I strongly support the positions of BLM, and would just as strongly oppose any BLM flags being displayed in a public office space. BTW, this is an issue in the DC offices of senators and House members.

2) That being said, I can understand that some employers might want to accept such displays. I think that they leave themselves open for constant bickering among their employees, and the need for committees, appeals and lots of other wastes of money and time.

3) if you think that NO ONE would want to hang say a Palestinian flags in the offices at their state university office, I can only say that I disagree.

4) What flags are OK? the ones that you choose? the ones that the school chooses? the ones that the school board chooses? the ones that the state legislature chooses? I would think that it might be considered fair for the school board to make these decisions. Perhaps it would be more democratic for the elected officials to set such policies at schools in their state.

5) I well understand that you believe that affirming the rights of homosexuals and welcoming them and their views is not controversial in a school setting. Have you lived in the US for the past 30 years?

BOTTOM LINE
Let us accept your premise that flags should be allowed, and they must they cannot violate certain standards. Are you OK with the local school board deciding what the standards are? Surely, there are no national standards for what should be allowed to be displayed at a local workplace.

What if the local school board decides that is allowable to fly the Confederate flag?

Let's be clear, there are two options
1) this is a free speech issues, and any flags not inciting criminal behavior must be allowed
2) this is a workplace issue and the employer (or someone else) has the right to set standards
Did you read the story? They only advised her against it, they didn't prohibit it remotely, which is a basic application of a general versus a specific rule

So they shouldn't have even had the accompanying message that everyone is welcome? Seems like that would go too far in repressing anything that would seem like a personal view rather than something that is common and humanitarian.

It is not a partisan flag, the others you mention explicitly are, linked to a specific ideology and not often one that is remotely positive in nature (who's going to advocate for freaking ISIS, a paramilitary terrorist organization and think that's a free speech thing in school?)

Not all flags are equal, that's where you're oversimplifying, because politics is not innately partisan. This would be like acting as if BLM is just all Marxist because a particular group (not the only BLM group) said as much in their ideals or such. Advocating against racism or saying that LGBTQ people are valid is not controversial in a civil society that supposedly is about human dignity and liberty. Repressing that is tantamount to an antithetical hypocrisy that goes the "Do as I say, not as I do," route.

It's not my preferential notion here, it's applying a standard where not all flags fit into the aspect you want to shoehorn them into. And a sign that the teacher also put up is also not in the vein of putting up a partisan flag of a political group that affects policy explicitly versus one that is functioning far more as a non profit and non partisan group. Or is the idea that all are welcome something controversial and divisive?
 
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zippy2006

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I'm glad the Superintendent did his job. Educate kids with non-biased curriculum that gives them the tools they need to enter the world as adults.

Right. Once we put aside the ideologies this is a commonsensical question that is very simple to answer. Kudos to the superintendent for doing the obvious and right thing.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Missouri teacher resigns after school district ordered him to remove Pride flag from classroom

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/education/article254077203.html

No joke, teacher in Missouri resigned after they were threatened with firing if they continued to hang a rainbow flag in their classroom and voiced a message of support to the students. Public school, mind you, and the teacher didn't mention sexuality or gender in the class (because it was speech/debate, theater and world mythology that the teacher was involved with) and wasn't making claims in class or to the students in terms of whether being LGBTQ was right or wrong. The threat was made through parental complaints that the teacher was going to make their child gay.

Not sure why there has to be such an unreasonable reaction to the mere presence of a flag that is not making some polarizing statement, but advocating inclusion and in the classroom, where students are learning not only more about the world, but how to be a better person, to be kind to each other. It's not just the parents' duty, they permit the teachers to be stewards of their children.

Was the district justified in threatening to fire him when they never said it was not prohibited in the classroom to begin with and only reacted as such when one parent complained about something that was demonstrably ridiculous to even suggest?

Generally speaking, to know whether you hold a consistent stance on a subject you'd replace the object in question with another.

Would I object to a flag displaying a raised fist?

A.) Yes.

Would I object to a Don't Tread on Me flag being displayed in the classroom?

A.) Yes

Therefore, regardless of the feelings I have behind the symbolism of the pride flag, I should, if I'm consistent in my ideology, also be against the display of the pride flag.

If it's a U.S. social studies classroom, I would not however, object to the flags being taught to the correct age groups; the history of their usage and symbolism as well as what they mean to the people wielding them. That would be consistent with education.

School systems usually have give wide latitude to teachers being able to decorate their classrooms, but I would say displaying the pride flag as a matter of course should not occur.

I don't see the teacher being disciplined for it, just asking him to take it down nicely should've resolved any issue. Why he quit or why it became some major issue is beyond me...
 
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Ana the Ist

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Missouri teacher resigns after school district ordered him to remove Pride flag from classroom

https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/education/article254077203.html

No joke, teacher in Missouri resigned after they were threatened with firing if they continued to hang a rainbow flag in their classroom and voiced a message of support to the students. Public school, mind you, and the teacher didn't mention sexuality or gender in the class (because it was speech/debate, theater and world mythology that the teacher was involved with) and wasn't making claims in class or to the students in terms of whether being LGBTQ was right or wrong. The threat was made through parental complaints that the teacher was going to make their child gay.

Not sure why there has to be such an unreasonable reaction to the mere presence of a flag that is not making some polarizing statement, but advocating inclusion and in the classroom, where students are learning not only more about the world, but how to be a better person, to be kind to each other. It's not just the parents' duty, they permit the teachers to be stewards of their children.

Was the district justified in threatening to fire him when they never said it was not prohibited in the classroom to begin with and only reacted as such when one parent complained about something that was demonstrably ridiculous to even suggest?

Same as flying a Confederate flag. If we're taking those down because people are offended....same can be said for the Pride flag.
 
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tall73

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The problem is that a teacher is a coercive government authority.

Agreed, since it is a public school, a government entity, and the teacher is an authority, that is a different question than even a private business. The teacher is presumed to be speaking for the district, for the government.

The courts have upheld that students retain much of their rights to free speech, religious speech, etc. in a school. But teachers in their role as a government worker are in a position where they have some restraints in the classroom.

This document from the Washington ACLU reviews some general guidelines.

Free Speech Rights of Public School Teachers in Washington State

It discusses classroom decorations as well.
 
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seeking.IAM

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The problem is that a teacher is a coercive government authority.

Coercive? Hardly. At best, influential perhaps. But even in middle school I was dismissing some of my teachers as idiots whose opinions mattered not at all to me.
 
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RDKirk

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Coercive? Hardly. At best, influential perhaps. But even in middle school I was dismissing some of my teachers as idiots whose opinions mattered not at all to me.

These issues have been through the courts. Teachers are considered agents and authorities of the government, and as such have coercive power over their students. Whether you considered your teachers idiots or not, they still were legally considered to have coercive power over you...such as being able to affect your grades, which you depended upon.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Here is a legit question for any professional educators that may be reading this thread: Do licensed teachers have a prescribed Code of Ethics?

For example, my profession has a prescribed Code of Ethics that requires strict boundaries between clients and professionals. Violations to the Code of Ethics are grounds for loss of licensure. Is there a corollary in the teaching world? Are boundaries and ethics in the classroom part of our teacher education? Or are future teachers merely taught subject matter and teaching methods?
 
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muichimotsu

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This has been through the courts.

Teachers are agents and authorities of the government. As such, they are limited by the Bill of Rights like any government agent that deals with citizens under their control.

It is exactly the same as a superior officer in the military displaying any political symbol other than a government-authorized flag over his command. No pride flags, no MAGA flags, no BLM flags, no confederate flags, no religious flags. It is considered coercive upon those under his authority.

It's the same with a school teacher. This is not new. The teacher does not have unfettered free speech in the classroom anymore than the squadron commander in his squadron or the postmaster in the post office.
Military has its own standards in particular, don't dishonestly conflate an officer and a teacher, they're not remotely in the same area beyond being public entities in some form or fashion. Then again, military often contracts with private companies, public schools don't have the budget that the military does, so there's plenty to unpack about how the comparison barely works

You're lumping all the flags together as if they are all of the exact same divisive nature when they really aren't except by people making a mountain of a molehill. There is demonstrable divisiveness in partisan flags or those that are making absolutist statements or nationalist jargon like MAGA, a pride flag or BLM flag are not in the same zip code, a broad brush method misses the point of education and how it is not meant to just tell students what to think, which would be indoctrination

By your logic, the American flag is ALSO coercive. Unless you try to make an exception for that flag, in which case you're shifting the goalposts.

Pretty sure no one is claiming they have unfettered free speech, you're strawmanning the opposition to frame your idea as more "rational"
 
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muichimotsu

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I take no issue with the LGBT flag being displayed in classrooms. However, I do find it entirely reasonable for a teacher to remove it if some students and their parents find it problematic.
A minority complaint must have basis in fact and the complaint we know of has no such demonstrable or substantive foundation. A teacher isn't teaching students to be gay merely because of the presence of an LGBTQ flag anymore than they're teaching them to be bi, trans, ace, etc
 
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