Does anyone out there still wanna defund the Police?

98cwitr

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I am not one advocating to replace police. Simply find other tools to assist them and lighten their burden. If more small businesses can employ more in the crime ridden neighborhood, there would be more economic gains in the community and crime wouldn't be a rational choice to provide for a family. If police interacted in these communities to show we are all on the same team, it wouldn't be such an us/them dynamic. Defunding the police is a terrible name to describe the reforms and supplemental tools that could aid both police and poor communities.

If a person is willing to steal from their neighbor, possibly at gun point, why wouldn't they be willing to steal from their employer? I don't buy the narrative that this is simply the result of economic hardship. There are plenty of impoverished people that do not hurt or steal from others.
 
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hedrick

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I didn't ask about reducing the foot print of law enforcement. Again; can you provide examples of defunding the Police?
Personally I think defund the police was a silly slogan. But when you pushed people about what it would look like in reality, that kind of marginal change from police to other experts is what they proposed.

As far as I can tell defund the police was more important as something for conservative to attack than as something anyone actually was going to do. But the slogan certainly was an invitation to those attacks.
 
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grasping the after wind

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In order to discuss this topic productively, we need to understand what "defunding the police" means.

It means addressing our criminal justice needs differently by allocating more funds towards alternative sentencing, addressing mental illness, a focus on rehabilitation, etc. Fighting crime smarter, not giving up the fight.

Then you are using the incorrect term when you use the term defunding.

defund
[dēˈfənd]
VERB
US
  1. prevent (a group or organization) from continuing to receive funds.
You seek to reallocate funding nor to defund.

There are people that want to actually defund the police and others that want to reallocate funding by taking some of the money from law enforcement and giving it to other groups.


I think both are bad ideas. Law enforcement is a necessary evil for as long as human beings remain human beings. when they become perfectly benevolent creatures we can defund the police as they would not longer be necessary for society to function. As for reallocation, funding for any group should be solely reliant on the needs of that group not on some emotional feeling that one group needs to be punished by taking money away from it and another rewarded by receiving that money. If police are being misused to address non violent situations that mental health professionals ought to be addressing that is not a funding issue but a management issue.
 
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Ken-1122

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Personally I think defund the police was a silly slogan. But when you pushed people about what it would look like in reality, that kind of marginal change from police to other experts is what they proposed.

As far as I can tell defund the police was more important as something for conservative to attack than as something anyone actually was going to do. But the slogan certainly was an invitation to those attacks.
Defund the police is not just conservatives talk about, it is something that is actually happening, resulting in drastic increases in crime where it is done

List of Cities Defunding the Police | Surge in Crime
 
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Arcangl86

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Estrid

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The origins towards a militarized US police come from the 1997 North Hollywood shootout from Wikipedia. Now there were SWAT teams starting in the 1960s in Philadelphia to deal with bank robberies. However, these expanded into anti-riot squads dealing with the race riots later in the 1960s and 1970s.

The 1997 North Hollywood shootout had a profound effect on law enforcement agencies. Local patrol officers at the time were typically armed with their standard issue 9×19mm or .38 Special pistols, with some having a 12-gauge shotgun available in their cars. The North Hollywood bank robbers carried fully automatic AK-47-style weapons with high capacity drum magazines and ammunition capable of penetrating vehicles and police Kevlar vests. With these weapons, two bank robbers fired approximately 1,100 rounds at officers and civilians before being killed. The robbers wore body armor which successfully protected them from bullets and shotgun pellets fired by the responding patrolmen. Police noted that the service
pistols carried by the first responding officers had insufficient range and relatively poor accuracy, although a SWAT team eventually arrived with sufficient firepower.[
1,100 bullets...
Missed with every one.
One cop who knows how to shoot could have
been enough for that fiasco.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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"Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as social services, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and other community resources.

All about balance,
 
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Brihaha

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Probably because the people who originally coined the phrase didn't have that in mind.
I agree with that. Those folks seemed to be reacting to the collective rage after Floyd was killed.
 
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Fantine

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After Iraq, the Obama Administration took all the tanks, etc they brought home and donated them to police departments. All of a sudden police departments became very sinister and frightening, with equipment just waiting for some unhinged dictator to activate.

I'm kind of glad the U.S. left some deactivated munitions in Afghanistan.

We are still recovering from 4 years of a would be authoritarian dictator. We can't let our country turn into a police state.
 
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Ken-1122

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"Defund the police" is a slogan that supports divesting funds from police departments and reallocating them to non-policing forms of public safety and community support, such as social services, youth services, housing, education, healthcare and other community resources.

All about balance,
If it were all about balance, they would be taking away from other City Government programs as well; not just the police
 
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Ken-1122

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1,100 bullets...
Missed with every one.
One cop who knows how to shoot could have
been enough for that fiasco.
They were wearing armor the standard police weapons could not penetrate. The cops had to go to a local pawn shop and actually purchase weapons that could take these guys down.
 
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Petros2015

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Does anyone out there still think defunding the Police to be a good idea?

No. Never did - retrain if you want. In certain locales where the area is completely corrupt, you might need to dismantle and rebuild from scratch. I think Camden NJ went through this, and it was a mess before it did. Doing better now, but those would be very limited situations.

Need to take a look a closer look at the police unions; they have too much power to block/hamstring/defend members who should be removed. The police unions should be the first layer policing the police, not the last one defending the wrong ones.
 
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Strathos

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I think you would be quite surprised at the number of people who want just that.

Countless people who went to cities they knew nothing about, demanding the police department of that city be defunded.

Politicians and economists did not coin the phrase “defund the police” activists did. And I have yet to see a single activist fight to defund any other city government programs; have you?

Sounds to me like you're arguing against a strawman.
 
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Hank77

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This sounds like an excellent program. However it appears to have nothing to do with defunding the police.
It is one form of what is being called 'defund the police'.
In a case like this one, it may mean the police don't get funding to hire more police because the new team makes more officers unnecessary. It may mean cutting back on funds that were set aside to hire new officers.
One size doesn't fit every cities needs, budgets, committee's desires, etc.
 
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Estrid

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They were wearing armor the standard police weapons could not penetrate. The cops had to go to a local pawn shop and actually purchase weapons that could take these guys down.
One weapon, one capable marksman is all that was needed.

ETA So said my American ex boyfriend. :D
 
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stevil

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Does anyone out there still agree with this idea? If so, please explain why.
As far as I understand it the idea of "Defund the police" was always a fringe idea that most people did not hold.
The idea was to allocate some funds for community service etc (have people helping direct people away from the cliff's edge) rather than law enforcement (ambulance at the bottom of the cliff).
Right wing media and some Republican politicians picked up on this idea and tried to tie it to Democrats, radical socialists etc.

Defund the police - Wikipedia
In the United States, politicians from both the Democratic and Republican parties have spoken against defunding, although Republicans have sought to link Democrats to the movement in congressional races. Among the general public in the United States, the concept of defunding is unpopular.
 
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Hank77

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In light of the violence in New York City's streets, Al Sharpton has declared:[64]

“We need to reimagine how we do policing. But to take all policing off is something a latte liberal may go for as they sit around the Hamptons discussing this as an academic problem. But people living on the ground need proper policing."

Defund the police - Wikipedia
 
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