"JUSTIFICATION": to the wicked, or to the just?

DaDa: "You can star another thread on free will if you want, Im quite curious, are you saying I stopped smoking because God made me stop, and not because I wanted to stop?
Are you saying its not me who wants to love God, but is God Himself forcing me to love Him?

Is that not rape? With all due respect even to God, Do I love Him because I want to or because I was forced to ?


It is your own thread that you brought free will up on.



God first loved us, not we first loving Him, then this is God shedding His love into our hearts by the Holy Ghost.

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.



Take Apostle Paul as an example ( who you oppose wrongly and declared they speak evil of the Lords dignities) how Paul did all ignorantly ( helping in murder) in unbelief, but by Gods grace he is what he is.


1 Corinthians 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

1 Timothy 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.


As for stopping smoking, here is a similar question answered:


Luke 12:13 And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.
14 And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?
15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

So far you try to reason out of your own mind, and I will answer by Gods word.

Also you are the only one disputing with me now DaDaBrothers, others have gone rather quiet if you did not notice on the whole salvation section.

DaDaBrothers said:

I am not and you dont have to believe me, just read the verses man.
And dont accuse me.

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Square your false doctrine with the true doctrine of St. Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles or I will continue to believe you are breathing out lies. I gave an interpretation and I am possibly in error but at least mine is in accord with the whole of Scripture, what is yours?

Abex: "Square your false doctrine with the true doctrine of St. Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles or I will continue to believe you are breathing out lies. I gave an interpretation and I am possibly in error but at least mine is in accord with the whole of Scripture, what is yours?"


Abex, that is not how to be justified, it is tit for tat, backbiting, debate, if you have anything in accordance with the whole of scripture, go and show your love in deed, and invite DaDabrothers, and anyone else, to walk with you in the same way and make peace, if you can.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Colossians 4:6 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

prophecy_uk said:

Abex: "Square your false doctrine with the true doctrine of St. Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles or I will continue to believe you are breathing out lies. I gave an interpretation and I am possibly in error but at least mine is in accord with the whole of Scripture, what is yours?"


Abex, that is not how to be justified, it is tit for tat, backbiting, debate, if you have anything in accordance with the whole of scripture, go and show your love in deed, and invite DaDabrothers, and anyone else, to walk with you in the same way and make peace, if you can.

Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

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I have. The OT passages he quoted were as you said speaking of God's justice under the Law, but moreover I think they are speaking of His justice with Laws in general, the natural Law, the Law of Christ, and so on. God will never justify a sinner in this sense: saying that sin is good or saying someone was not guilty of a sin. God will justify a sinner in this sense: give them saving grace (which includes repentance, sanctification, salvation, forgiveness, etc) by which they are made righteous sons of God. But note: a sinner was given this grace, and this grace is what St. Paul calls "justification," and it comes not to the just (only the maintenance of justification is in the just) but to sinners, or else it would not be called that. The Lord Jesus said "I came to call sinners not those justified in their own eyes," and His grace (which is justification in the second sense) comes to sinners in their sin by which they are made just. Yet God will never justify a sinner in the first sense saying sin is no longer sin, for the Lord Jesus said "go and sin no more."

No one is justified apart from God and all are sinners, convicted all of them are, Gentile and Jew as St. Paul said, being born separated from God (Original Sin) and needing salvation. Literally every justified person is a sinner who was justified.

DaDa: "So we do have free will, God loves us first and He "enables" us to love Him, that "enabling" is not making us love him by force, no. It is a chance given to us to love Him, do we take the chance and love Him back, or we dont, depending on our free will."


I did remind us of how Paul was chosen to stop being a murderer, that enabling is not by saying, come here, it is by the blinding we saw of Paul's eyes, and then being filled with the Holy Ghost afterwards, get real please..

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

Abax: "Yet God will never justify a sinner in the first sense saying sin is no longer sin, for the Lord Jesus said "go and sin no more."

DaDabrothers concluded the same, so what is your purpose ?


But, seeing as you both have the same purpose, discussion and nothing of what real justification is ( love in deed/laying our lives down) No wonder you are replying to me.


Justification does not just come to those who keep Gods laws, they need to do more to heave treasure in Heaven, go and see it, and do it, giving love out to all and you did well. Mark 10:18-30 Luke 14:16-33.

DaDaBrothers said:

You dare to call the word of God a lie? Because this is what I have been "breathing out".
And the reason why it it does not fall its becaus its true, and it is still standing and it will stand even for ever God will not justify the wicked:

Exodus 23:7 Thou shalt abstain from every unjust thing: thou shalt not slay the innocent and just, and thou shalt not justify the wicked for gifts.



Your made up "sense" of the word used is not found on Strongs. So It cannot be interpreted in that made up "sense" of the word, and if you do you are interpreting it incorrectly. That is why we have all these other words like forgive, repent etc. to correctly transmit the correct information. So dont misinterpret the word "justify"

This is what Jesus really said:
Luke 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

They have to repent first, then He can justify them. That is why He calls them to repentence, He wants none to perish but all come to repentance, so they can be justified.



Every justified person WAS a sinner ( PAST ), was a sinner who repented.

And the question still remains that no one dares to answer:

So who is "the one who justifies sinners" ?

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Strongs is not the end-all-be-all of language, and God is the one who gives the grace of justification to sinners.

Only debate, if you two think you are not in the following prediction for the end of the world, good for you..


Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

DaDa: "This is your evidence for not having free will ? One isolated case without 2 nor 3 witnesses?"



Do you not remember the witnesses who witness for us?


John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

I said you will be answered by Gods Word, why do you not be wise and be quiet then?

DaDaBrothers said:

Surely it is better than your opinion and interpertration.



Not the God of Israel, the God of Israel will not justify sinners, but can forgive and call to repentance.

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Then who do you think is the One who Justifies the unrighteous? For in v3 and v5 are parallel.