Zephaniah

keras said:

You have still avoided the 3 clear prophesies about the Return, which do not say there will be fire then.

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See, that's the terrible, dreadful, appalling irony of the situation we find ourselves in.

YOU have ignored the 3 clearest, plainest verses in the New Testament on the Lord's return - in favour for your obscure, irrelevant, already fulfilled prophecies about ancient Assyria and Babylon and whoever. I doubt 1 in 100 of the OT stuff you quote is ACTUALLY about eschatology.

You won't believe I'm right until after your precious temple and AOD fails to materialise by 1 Jan 2027.
But then it will be too late. You may have already damaged some young person's fate with your 'unique' method of 'reading' scripture.
(Or selectively ignoring the PLAIN in your hunt for your precious CME Sci-Fi show!)

I might take a break. You haven't come up with a single new reason that truly defends your 'reading' of the 3 PLAINEST verses in the New Testament about Judgement Day. You just rinse and repeat your highly selective OT prophecies. But it's fascinating how dogmatic you are when you and you alone seem to be the only one promoting this CME timetable of the last days. Well, we've got 6 years to wait and I've got the bible - especially the New Testament - on my side.

In the meantime, I intend to live as if each day might be the last before the Lord returns - while I also plan to live a full life and invest in future generations by taking the valid science of the IPCC on climate change seriously, and broader sustainability issues as well. Because he might return "like a thief" tonight, or in 50,000 years. We JUST DON'T KNOW. Especially you!

eclipsenow said:

In the meantime, I intend to live as if each day might be the last before the Lord returns - while I also plan to live a full life and invest in future generations by taking the valid science of the IPCC on climate change seriously, and broader sustainability issues as well. Because he might return "like a thief" tonight, or in 50,000 years. We JUST DON'T KNOW. Especially you!

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This right here proves you don't really think the Lord can return at anytime, which might include today. Because if you did you would not be concerned with future generations and trying to fix and solve things for them before it is too late. Once the Lord returns man doesn't have to try and solve and fix any of those problems, The Lord Himself will have all those things covered. He will solve and fix these things for generations to come Himself. And besides, until He returns, things in the earth get worse not better. Have you not considered any of the trumpet and bowl judgments? Trying to solve and fix things for future generations would be in vain in light of those judgments still to come. That might be like when Noah began building the ark that there were others at the time wanting to solve and fix things for future generations, which would have been all for nothing the fact God had other plans instead.


One of these days some of you are going to have to come to grips with the fact that man can't solve and fix these problems, that only the Lord is able to. But He has to return first before He can go about solving and fixing these problems. In the meantime any attempt by man to fix and solve these problems is all in vain. There is no future in this age for future generations. This age is close to it's end. How close, that I can't tell you, but it is closer than it was 2000 years ago.

Even if Keras is wrong concerning some of his interpretations of some of the prophecies he brings up, at least he is not living in a fantasy world where he is thinking things might get better eventually, if man will just intervene and try and solve and fix things for future generations, when it is only God that is able to solve and fix things for future generations, but that He has to return first before things can start getting solved and fixed.

eclipsenow said:

Yes - but that's verse 10 where the focus is how the PROBLEM - persecution of Christians - is addressed by us finally meeting Christ face to face and experiencing his majesty.

We were discussing what verses 6,7,8, and 9 meant - all of which discuss exactly the same event - the revealing of the Lord to ALL HUMANITY!

6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction

Unbelievers get blazing fire and everlasting destruction
Believers get verse 10.

But it's the same event - the same answer to the problem of believers troubled by persecution. Jesus returns, and it's good for us, bad for them. Get it?

See? Exactly the same thing being discussed as MATTHEW 13 where angels go out, and fire is mentioned.

The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.

Unbelievers get the furnace with weeping and gnashing of teeth
Believers get to 'shine like the sun' (which is probably 7 times brighter - hint hint) in the kingdom of the father



I'm sorry - but there's just no room to separate out the angels, fire, and the Lord himself returning with eternal judgement and eternal reward in the NHNE. It's all part of the one package.



Are you pulling my leg right now? EVERYONE can see - especially the ungodly - who look up in sheer terror and call out in horror.

15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
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Year 4 English test: What are they hiding from?
Year 4 Answer: "the face of God - and the anger of the lamb"

It's not hard

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You miss one point. How can they hide under what no longer exists?

You take away the rocks and mountains that clearly your 4 year old would point out is still there.

keras said:

So; will God on His Throne appear in the sky, at the same time as fire is raining down, earthquakes and devastation happens?
That is about as sci-fi as it gets.
I don't see that in the scriptures and I doubt if many others do either.

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The earth and GWT are still here for another 1000 years. Even the rocks and mountains are still here until the mountains are flattened later on in Revelation 16:20.

All will see the face of the One sitting on the throne.

DavidPT said:

This right here proves you don't really think the Lord can return at anytime, which might include today.

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Someone once asked Martin Luther what he would do if he knew the Lord would return tomorrow.
His answer? Plant a tree.
Because you don't read theology, you haven't got the faintest clue what he's talking about!

Because if you did you would not be concerned with future generations and trying to fix and solve things for them before it is too late. Once the Lord returns man doesn't have to try and solve and fix any of those problems, The Lord Himself will have all those things covered. He will solve and fix these things for generations to come Himself.

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Of course - you're being patronising again. Of course I believe in the NHNE

And besides, until He returns, things in the earth get worse not better. Have you not considered any of the trumpet and bowl judgments? Trying to solve and fix things for future generations would be in vain in light of those judgments still to come.

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I never said we can make a paradise now - but the Amil position is that Revelation describes what this period between Ascension and Return is like. You refuse to study the very real discipline of ancient Jewish symbolism. You can't even BEGIN to read Revelation properly. But it's a reminder that things will be 'messed up' until the Lord returns. Messed up like this pandemic, like the fall of the Roman Empire, like the Black Plague, like the Titanic, like WW1 and WW2, like floods and droughts and famines.

What right do we have to live now like future generations don't matter? They do. Love for neighbour should encompass thoughts on future sustainability. It's a moral thing. But your precious (and highly dangerous, misleading, and false) end-times-table has you pounding away at your keyboard on countless threads here - trying to justify your belief in a CME - for what gain? Most people here just laugh at your theories. What are you really accomplishing here?

One of these days some of you are going to have to come to grips with the fact that man can't solve and fix these problems, that only the Lord is able to.

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We sure can if we build enough clean energy, move to EV's, build more trains and trams and 'eco-cities' / New Urbanism and switch off the fossil fuels.

But He has to return first before He can go about solving and fixing these problems.

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That's like saying "God bless you, be at peace" to the beggar as heaven weeps at another uncompassionate Christian just walking on by.

In the meantime any attempt by man to fix and solve these problems is all in vain. There is no future in this age for future generations. This age is close to it's end. How close, that I can't tell you, but it is closer than it was 2000 years ago.

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Then why did you draw up that genealogy? Are you here publicly retracting your timetable?

Even if Keras is wrong concerning some of his interpretations of some of the prophecies he brings up, at least he is not living in a fantasy world where he is thinking things might get better eventually, if man will just intervene and try and solve and fix things for future generations, when it is only God that is able to solve and fix things for future generations, but that He has to return first before things can start getting solved and fixed.

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The church can help shape culture to care about these things.
I've seen many Christians on the front lines of climate action.
I don't think we can make a perfect world - as pandemics and wars and selfishness and droughts and boxing day tsunamis will continue. But statistically, life has never been better on a per-capita basis. We have more food and healthcare and general safety than ever before.

What right do we have to destabilise the climate for future generations?

keras said:

My situation is just fine. I live a happy life; I keep busy in retirement with volunteer work and study. I read 4-6 books a week. I present the Bible Prophesies on forums for people who never hear them spoken from the pulpit. That people like you reject them is not my concern.

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That actually concerns me. I really worry how many people are going to reject Christianity when they realise how utterly false all your 'predictions' are. You honestly don't know how wrong your bible reading system is - how placing OT prophecies about ancient wars across NT eschatology is just wrong, wrong, wrong!

However; I see you believe in Climate Change, the so called 'indisputable science', that says we humans have caused it and that we can fix it by our own efforts.

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Yes - it's about 200 years old. Read my signature.

This gives me the reason why you are so unpleasant and critical to the Biblical Truths; that the Lord is coming to change the whole world in a very dramatic way.

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No, that gives me hope that one day he will fix it. Until then we must love our neighbour.

It will happen and 'climate change; is a scam, perpetrated by those who want to control the world and who reject God the Creator.

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(Sighs)
What gives you the authority to reject the basic laws of physics around CO2's heat-deflecting ability, thousands of climate scientists, and the work of the many Christian climatologists? Sir John Houghton was the first head of the IPCC. Christian. Katharine Hayhoe - Christian.

Basically; Christianity and the New World order are incompatible.

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Hmmm, the all-evil NWO conspiracy theory.
I actually like the idea of world government - like a UN parliament of a global Federation of nations. Tell me, what if some sort of international democracy were set up? Would you be OK with a world democracy that guaranteed freedom of religion, freedom of movement, freedom of work, basically all the rights and liberties we enjoy in NZ and Australia today? Imagine being free to go and preach in Afghanistan.

eclipsenow said:

What right do we have to destabilise the climate for future generations?

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Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


I don't know what your position is in regards to the 7th trumpet. Maybe you agree or maybe you don't, with some of the rest of us, which includes both Premils and Amils, that the 7th trumpet involves the 2nd coming. Verse 18 indicates this---and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. That means it is a fact no one can change, that when the 2nd coming happens there will be those which destroy the earth. How then can someone fix something for future generations when it would be in vain to even try? One way it would be in vain to try is that all the way up unto the 2nd coming there are those destroying the earth, which might include what you are hoping to prevent for future generations.

And once again, the fact you insist Christ can come today or even tommorrow, and assuming He could, what future generations are you then worried about us destabilising the climate for? Who would still be doing that once Christ returns? How can when Christ returns not mean these things will be solved and fixed for forever? Even if Christ didn't return today or tommorrow but does return within the next 20 years for example, which is very reasonable to think He could, what future generations are you concerned about when this would still be involving the generation we are curently living in if He were to return within the next 20 years?

DavidPT said:

And once again, the fact you insist Christ can come today or even tommorrow, and assuming He could, what future generations are you then worried about us destabilising the climate for?

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It's a part of Christian humility and planning - right from 2000 years ago. As James says, we should have "If it's in the Lord's will" we'll do xyz. That could be because we might die tomorrow or the Lord might return tomorrow. It's part of the 'now and not yet' nature of the Kingdom of God we experience now.
It's part of our Christian duty.

If we cannot share our lifestyle to everyone on earth and STILL have nature thrive - then our lifestyle is immoral and the technologies that provide that need reform. We must work towards that. And as we simply do not know when the Lord is going to return, we should both have gospel priorities and holiness now as we make decisions based on the Lord returning tomorrow - but also have compassionate planning and moral living based on whether the Lord might return in 50,000 years.

I'm old enough to have seen literally dozens of really popular end-times-tables and 'prophecies' of the Lord's return come and go. These days I just yawn at them and say "Pull the other one it plays jingle bells." No one knows, because His Return will be like a thief. Anything to do with recognising the seasons is either:-
1. To do with the temple being destroyed by the Romans in AD70 or.. (depending on CONTEXT)
2. To do with recognising that the Lord's death and ascension means he could return at ANY TIME - so be ready, trust in him, and stay ready! Do not give up your faith.

That's it.
That's all we know.
Other than that, it could be tomorrow or 100,000 years. We just don't know.

keras said:

It has been shown that many 'climate' scientists use questionable computer modelling, etc, to obtain the results desired.

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Rubbish - the models are only getting better.
They can also be run in reverse to check how they tracked against the last 20 years of actual climate history from the real world - and they track remarkably well.

This kind of scare tactics is driven by people with an agenda of very deep and hidden actions, which can only be seen as attempting to obtain world control.

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So you'll ignore the repeatable, demonstrable physics and models that are abundantly obviously clear - and once again do a deep dive into the unknowable, untestable conspiracy theory and just believe that. Colour me shocked to discover your attitude to peer-reviewed climate science is the same as your attitude to peer-reviewed theology!

It is the sun that dictates our climate.

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It's the sun is only number 2 on the climate denial charts. Not very original, are you?


Also, coal is finite and will one day run out.

Also, coal dust kills more people in a week when it goes right than in the whole history of nuclear power going wrong.

BECAUSE Jesus really meant it when he said he would return like a thief in the night, we should plan on making a sustainable energy world for our grandchildren. It's part of our gospel duty to love and care for our neighbours, both in the here and now, and in the entirely possible future we should be planning for - in humility - if it is the Lord's will.

keras said:

Is the climate changing?
NO; because the empirical evidence denies it. My own experience over the last 70 years, is that summer, autumn, winter and spring come around- no hotter or colder than they always have. The tide comes in and goes out with no increase in levels. And we have always had extreme weather events occasionally.

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Oh yeah - I'm going to take YOUR experience of reality for scientific fact

Climate Change is a crock and is simply not true.

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There isn't a national academy of science on the entire planet that disagrees with the fact that it's our carbon emissions that are warming the planet.

I've already explained to you that the best peer-reviewed historical work on the symbolism in Hebrew prophetic writing shows us that the majority of OT prophetic writing was about local situations that have ALREADY been fulfilled. I can't help but wonder why you keep copying and pasting the same verses without being able to address this fundamental difference in our presuppositions. You may as well print out an entire bible, print it up on the wall, and play "Pin the tail on the donkey" verse selection, and then take the first 10 pins as some kind of 'sign' about what's going to happen in the next 10 years. But that's reducing the bible to Tarot card readings. I mean, seriously, your 'reading' of the bible is that out of context. It makes me wince. Knowing you have a whole website of this 'pin-the-tail-on-the verse' is kind of disturbing. I just hope you don't influence a single other human being with your anti-hermeneutical un-method of reading the bible. The bible is just too important for people like you to be allowed to play silly games with it.

keras said:

All of Velikovskys books too, some info there of cosmic happenings, but nothing caused by the sun.

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You just keep making me wince - and yet posturing like you deserve respect!
Velikovsky. That'd be right.
You reject peer-reviewed theology
You reject peer-reviewed climate science
You reject peer-reviewed astronomy
Velikovsky is right up your alley.


What's next? Was the moon landing faked?

Dude - go look up some kind of standard evangelical commentary and you'll find most OT stuff has already been fulfilled. Oh yeah- that's right - you reject peer-reviewed Reformed evangelical theology. It's just not as 'perceptive' as you.

Seriously, you'll read Velikovsky - an utter psychobabble crank - but you won't read someone as qualified as Paul Barnett on the very real and historically verifiable art of Apocalyptic Symbolism?

keras said:

You show your extremist bias here.
Dose Paul B say he is infallible?

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Yeah - right - because good Protestants like Sydney Anglican's believe in a "Pope" like figure!

Is 'apocalyptic symbolism', anything other than just a theory?
I await any kind of 'historic verification'.

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Jewish symbolism - Wikipedia
Gematria - Wikipedia
Significance of numbers in Judaism - Wikipedia

All the footnotes you could want

I knew my mention of Velikovsky would rev you up!

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Yes, you do love heat, not light

If you had the moral fortitude to actually read his books, you would see how he carefully researched ancient documents and oral traditions.

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I forgot a few! You hate peer-reviewed theology, planetary evolution, biological evolution, astronomy, cosmology, and climate science.

Why do the scientific community hate him? Because the truths he presents destroys their pet ideas, also their Satanically inspired rejection of a Creator God.

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I know too many Christians in the sciences, even cosmological physicists, who maintain that both the bible is true and their sciences are true, to bother with nutters like Velikovsky. The fact that lay people such as yourself fanboi Velikovsky has been documented on his wiki

When did this happen; eclipsenow?
What exactly is it 'apocalyptic symbolic' of?

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This is a summary of the apocalyptic symbolism of the Day of the Lord scattered throughout the OT. For more specific references just google "Zephaniah" + Bible Project and it will come up easily enough.
It's not hard.
The truth is out there if you're willing to abandon reading nutters only and start reading more peer-reviewed, REAL research

eclipsenow said:

Because he might return "like a thief" tonight, or in 50,000 years. We JUST DON'T KNOW. Especially you!

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We do know that we are living in the parable of the fig tree generation.

Douggg said:

We do know that we are living in the parable of the fig tree generation.


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ye, doth youeth haveth evidenthef thateth thiseth refereth toeth useth? Youeth asserteth mucheth, buteth haveth littleeth

eclipsenow said:

ye, doth youeth haveth evidenthef thateth thiseth refereth toeth useth? Youeth asserteth mucheth, buteth haveth littleeth

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Do you find Matthew 24:32-51 kjv, too difficulty read ?